Identity? What identity? Did you know that right up until statehood in 1948, "Palestinians" referred to the Jewish inhabitants of Palestine? When one wished to refer to Arabs, one said "Arabs." The military force from the region that fought under the British flag during World War II was known as the Palestine Brigade, and it consisted exclusively of Jews. (The Arabs did not want to fight against their good friends the Nazis -- Haj Amin al-Husseini was real clear about that. Not they would have volunteered, anyway.) Between 1948 and 1967, the Arabs living in the West Bank were quite happy to be Jordanians; those living in Gaza were quite content to be Egyptians. In fact, Nasser extended Egyptian citizenship to the residents of Gaza in 1958. King Hussein extended Jordanian citizenship to the Arabs on the West Bank in 1950. In both cases, citizenship was extended to the individuals AND THEIR PROGENY and was made IRREVOCABLE. There was no concept of self-determination until following the Six-Day War. Stop treating the issue of so-called Palestinian "nationalism" as if it has some legitimacy. It was created out of whole cloth in 1967 -- much the way the Hashemite Kingdom of the Trans-Jordan was created out of whole cloth in the 1920s. That's your Palestinian state, by the way. Justice and morality actually means something to Israel. I don't know where you are from -- you are very careful not to say -- but I would ask you this: how does the Israeli practice of leafleting areas that are going to come under bombardment stack up against the indiscriminate carpet bombing of Germany by the Allies during World War II? And how is it Israel's fault that Hamas does not allow civilians to leave the area? Or, I suppose I could ask you to measure Israel's practice of leafleting and loud-hailing against NATO's indiscriminate bombing of civilian areas in Iraq, Afghanistan and, most recently, Waziristan? Tens of thousands of civilians have died as a result. So, what was that you were saying about "morality?" Having read all of your little gems, I know exactly what you are. You are an unrepentant vicious anti-Semite that tries to couch his hatred of Jews behind mealy-mouthed protestations on behalf of the Palestinians, about whom you know nothing. You haven't fooled us one bit. We've dealt with your kind for thousands of years. And while our most powerful of foes have disappeared from this mortal coil, I call your attention to the fact that the Jews are still here, and we are thriving. We continue to make extraordinary contributions to mankind that so outweigh our numbers (there's only around 12.5 million Jews in the world) that no other race, religion or ethnicity can rival. And we will be here to watch you erode into the dust of the ages.

There was no proof in your claim although many have made it believing "this was the only possible reason". If many were forced out, how come many others remained in their homes at the request of Ben Gurion in 1948? Some Gazans claim to be from Jaffa yet Jaffa is full of Arabs, especially one of the richest families in Israel! Many others admitted to leaving based on the false story of Deir Yassin that even its creators deemed "the biggest mistake we (Al-Husseini and friends) ever made". And others, who did leave for the arriving Arab armies, locked their doors and took only basic items with them, which leads more to an intent to return shortly as opposed to running for your life. However, some were driven out by the IDF and those were from hostile villages that provided protection for Arab fighters and a place to stage attacks from. A legal target per Intl conventions. But the real point is this - despite UNR181 which called for refugees to return and an end to Arab attacks, the Arabs refused to stop attacks and refused to live peacefully in the State of Israel. The rest is a fate written by themselves. Get over it.

Oh really? Palestinians should be SO grateful that Israel makes their lives a living hell. You really belong in a museum, Sarah, because you really are a bloodless wonder. And you have the audacity to lecture me about "peace and justice?" And Ehud Barak's proposal was so fair, wasn't it? Far from it: under the plan, Israel would withdraw from Gaza, but retain control on strategically important and valuable areas of the West Bank, retaining "security control" on other parts, which of course would make travel and trade completely impossible for Palestinians, because everything they do within their state had to be with permission from the Israeli government. Also Israel would retain control of the aquifers, which Israel would exchange for part of the Negev desert, which is waterless and features a toxic waste dump, and retain "bypass roads" throughout the West Bank. And you say that all this is fair? Either you didn't read it, or refuse to or you've been lied to, or all of the above, but you are one dirty hypocrite to tell me that I know nothing of the middle east, when you just confused Barak's plan for "the best" offer. If that was the best offer, then the other offers must have been far, far worse. But that's another myth you have repeated, Sarah, and if you read off all the myths and revisionist history, then the two of us might be here for at least a year. That's why I say that this will be my final word; I encourage you to grab a book and start reading.

You are wrong again. Those who are Arabic citizens of Israel are those that Israel for some reason didn't expel. Take for example, Nazareth: the invading general, Ben Dunkelman, was given orders from General Chaim Laskov to expel its inhabitants. Ben Dunkelman refused. Today Nazareth houses a significant proportion of Israel's Arabs. So like I said, if you continue to read all the myths and refuse to see that they simply are not true, then I am simply wasting my time here arguing with you.

More fool you. The only reason that partition ever passed the United Nations vote was because with the gas chambers and extermination camps still clear in peoples' minds, they felt it was necessary to throw the Jews a bone. Everyone knew that the Arabs would attack the fledgling state; everyone fully expected that the Jews would be driven into the sea, and that would be the end of it -- back to business as usual. It didn't work out that way, but I remind you that in each of Israel's six major wars, the Arabs have been the aggressor. International convention is quite clear: if a country that is an aggressor in an armed conflict should happen to lose territory as a result of a war which it has initiated, then the territory that is acquired by the country fighting a defensive war may be retained and settled. Particularly since the West Bank has always been non-sovereign territory. Well, it belongs to Israel now, and no one will dislodge us. The West Bank Arabs are all Jordanian citizens, and Jordan is de facto a Palestinian state anyway. All the pious bleating that you hear about how near and dear Jerusalem is to the hearts of the Palestinians is pure fiction. They never cared about it -- you should have seen what it looked like before the Jews made it glorious again. "Malignant entity born of sin?" Are you a skinhead? Or just a common garden-variety Jew hater? Don't bother to answer; I don't frankly care.

It was the racist attacks on Jews by Arabs, which increased overnight during the 1948 war, that led Jewish families to run to Israel, not the Zionist movement. The claim, which so far has been largely unsubstantiated, is the Arab attempts to absolve themselves of their platform of racism and expulsion. As if, the Arabs claim they loved the Jews and begged them to stay. Outside of Jewish expulsion, Arabs expelled many other groups as well throughout history. Precedents are there for those who wish to learn truth.

As you can see, over 1 million Arabs live in Israel on land they either rent or own. As for the land claims from "Palestinians", no proof besides a rusty key (I can find one in my tool box). Take for instance the Arabs who claim they own houses in Sheik Jarrah, only to find out they received them from the Jordanian govt after being stolen from its Jewish residents during an ethnic cleansing. Arabs villages are claiming they own land outside their boundaries because "they expect a future expansion" but were never provided such land to them through national mandate or administrative transference. Simply based on their wishes and convoluted logic. So, if one were to present land deeds the way Jews and others around the world have done to claim ownership, surely they would have a case.

And what country would that be? It wasn't Palestine for it was never a country. Was it the Ottoman Empire? A lot of people lost that designation in 1919. Was it The Levant? Syrians and Lebanese lost that distinction too. Apparently, you equate economic migration with being a "native". British records showed this so-called "country taken from them" was actually a stop point for thousands of illegal Arab economic migrants who came to the region looking for work, after the Brits and Jews dumped much money into the region. The Brits have a nice census during the 1930s citing 20 different languages spoken by the Arab community, including Bosnian. Not bad for a mess of "natives", huh? By your logic, a Mexican immigrant sent back to Mexico by the US also had "their country (US) taken from them unlawfully".

Everything on that page is sourced. You can verify it for yourself. Just because you don't like the truth doesn't mean you can deny it. If you noticed many of the quotes were from memoirs of the Arab leaders, articles from the New York Times and various other Arabic and foreign papers. All can be researched and verified. So to the question of the refugee's that page is accurate, and you have shown me nothing that indicates anything on that page is false. What it comes down to is this, you would believe your bias sources over the truth. So you label it propaganda without proving anything was false or wrong, that's called bias. The question we are discussing is whether the Arabs were forced out or left on their own. The answer is on the site I provided, many left voluntarily some were forced. I think the link I provided is a good over-site to the issue and you cannot prove...nor did you try to..that any of the information was false. You simply called it propaganda...without proof...and provided another quote without any context. I stand by my source with abundance of provable quotes that show Arab leaders caused the mass evacuation of the Arab population based on their false promise to annihilate Israel.

the same cannot be said about Israel, as it is not seemingly aware of injustice done to the arabs! amazing. no?

It simply means that the residents were afraid they'd suffer the same fate as Deir Yassin, which many thought would result if they had a truce (Deir Yassin had a truce, and they ended up butchered for the record). And I notice the date is April 23, 1948. Most of the Palestinians were expelled after that date. If only Ynet could allow me to give you the testimony of the soldier who participated in the Duwaiyima village massacre- (October 29, 1948)- it would reveal everything.

"Those who are Arabic citizens of Israel are those that Israel for some reason didn't expel." Do you really believe that? Perhaps you should travel to Israel and speak with the Arabs that live there. You might actually learn something. Nazareth houses Christian Arabs. It also houses a lot of Jews. There are vast differences between Christian Arabs and Moslem Arabs -- in many ways, the Christian Arabs are much closer to Jews than they are to Moslem Arabs. But it is clear to me from the substance of your comments that you have never been to Israel. Eminently clear. So you are grievously ill equipped to discuss the Arab-Israeli conflict.

You seemed to draw a comparison Between the website I provided...which you referred to as a propaganda site, without proof...and the site you provided. I did go to your site and it took less 3 minutes to find a lie. What I refer to as "lying through omission". On the refugee question to prove their point they quote Benny Morris from his first book about the refugee issue. Of course they fail to mention Benny Morris's second book where he revisited this same issue but with additional historical information, he changed his opinion to reflect a massive amount of voluntary Arab exodus. This is mentioned on my site but omitted on yours, what does that mean? It means your source has to lie in order to make its point, while my source relies on verifiable sources and tells the truth. Bottom line your source is propaganda, and my source was the truth. Case Closed.

You might wish to brush up on what happened at Deir Yassin. Here might be a good source: http://www.hirhome.com/israel/deir-yassin.htm And by the way, is this quote also taken out of context ? "This will be a war of extermination and a momentous massacre which will be spoken of like the Mongolian massacres and the Crusades." Azzam Pasha, Secretary General of the Arab League, on the eve of the 1948 war.

I know you put a lot of stock in quotes: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/deir_yassin.html Here is a verifiable quote from a Arab villager who was instructed to lie by the Arab leaders at the time. By accusing the Israeli's of raping Arab women. The thought was it would incite the Muslim world to rally to the defense of the Arabs in Palestine. It backfired!!! It cause Arab villagers to flee in panic at the false and fabricated story something that is still popular today. For those who care tosee type "Pallywood" in your address bar at the top of your screen, a list will pop-up go to the youtube video. This is lesson 101 of Arab propaganda. It is important to note Israel have never been caught putting out propaganda

One problem is that the A Mandates gave Jews the Right of Return but no land and as part of deal with UN to create Israeli state was to honor Ottoman and British land titles. In 47-49 Israel was to poor to buy the land needed if they could find it for sale but they purchased what they could. Israel created the Abandoned Areas Ordinance which states any area or place conquered by or surrendered to armed forces or deserted by all or part of its inhabitants, All properties in these areas was also declared ‘abandoned’ and the Government was authorised to issue instructions as to the disposition of. This law applied to Muslims and Christians, many who were within 10miles of their former property but ban from setting foot on it or selling it.

Actually Zionism played a key role in arab Jews (Sephardi,Mizrahi) leaving their homelands. Ben Gurion needed cheap labour so the Stern Gang set bombs off in jewish neighborhoods to terrorize them into leaving. They still suffer social and economic discrimination to this day.

Gosh, I guess you never heard of the Jewish National Fund or Keren Kayemet, funded by some of the wealthiest Jews in the world, including the Rothschilds, the Salomons, the Levys and others, to name but a few. The land was purchased from the Ottoman absentee owners. They thought they were getting a bargain -- worthless, infertile and barren land which was purchased by the Jews at wildly inflated prices. The Palestinians did not own any land -- they were tenant farmers for absentee landlords, at least in those areas sufficiently arable. Mostly they were nomads -- as soon as their goats destroyed the available grasses, they moved on. Of course, they made a bit of a lucrative living by raiding the Jewish settlements, but that probably doesn't feature large in their imaginative autobiographies, which is given over to lush orchards and olive groves. Yeah, right. Following Israel's victory in the War of Independence -- a war which Israel did not seek, but rather had it thrust upon her -- Israel doubled in size. Hey -- the Arabs thought they would win, they expected to win, the entire world expected them to win, but guess what? They lost. Israel, like all sovereign states, has an inalienable right to exercise eminent domain. This means that it may move populations, it may evict populations and it may refuse populations an opportunity to return to homes they voluntarily abandoned. I defy you to name one country in the entire world that does not exercise such a right. For you to imply that this is something exlusively done by Israel is disingenuous. Have you any idea, for example, how many millions of people were turned into refugees overnight when Yugoslavia was awarded the region of Istria from Italy following the end of World War II? Have you any idea how many Europeans were officially considered refugees following the end of World War II? Displaced persons are not a new phenomenon. What IS new is the fact that the Palestinian refugees -- who became refugees through the exercise of personal choice -- were never resettled. But that is not the fault of Israel and no, they cannot go back. They left voluntarily. They need to take ownership of their choices, and live with the consequences of such choices. Which is something they are incapable of doing; and that is not Israel's fault, either.

What, pray tell, is an "arab Jew?" Your comment is absurd on its face. Cheap labor? There was plenty, coming right out of the displaced persons camps in Europe. Whatever issues may have existed at one point between Ashkenazim and Sephardim/Mizrahim have long since vanished, except in the ultra-Orthodox communities, and they are hardly indicative of the mainstream. I am Ashkenazi. My husband is Sephardic. My children are ta'arovet. Your point?

IN THE MARCH 1976 issue of Falastin a-Thaura, then the official journal of the Beirut-based PLO, Mahmud Abbas ("Abu Mazen"), PLO spokesman, wrote: "The Arab armies entered Palestine to protect the Palestinians from the Zionist tyranny but, instead, they abandoned them, forced them to emigrate and to leave their homeland, and threw them into prisons similar to the ghettos in which the Jews used to live." Still not satisfied? No problem. There are literally dozens and dozens of similar quotes from ARAB leaders who, throughout the 1950's, 1960's and 1970's, stated the same thing. The so-called "Nakba" was self-inflicted. You can keep on denying all you like, but deep down inside, you know it's true.

People see through the lies. The world knows who owns the media and they know who prints the history. We were expelled and forced out. Do you think we left everything we built and worked for to be poor because we felt like it. Jews left other Arab nations to go to Israel by choice, you think we want to leave with nothing to go nowhere. What you say has no logic.

"The world knows who owns the media and they know who prints the history." When you're fresh out of facts, reach for a stereotype. "We were expelled and forced out." No, you left voluntarily. "Do you think we left everything we built and worked for to be poor because we felt like it." You built nothing. No hospitals. No schools. No universities. No cultural centers. No museums. You were dirt-poor tenant farmers on behalf of absentee Ottoman landlords and nomadic goat herders. You were illiterate and primitive. "Jews left other Arab nations to go to Israel by choice" No, nearly one million Jews were forcibly expelled from their homes in Moslem and Arab lands following Israel's victory in the War of Independence. This is well-documented. As I've said previously -- six wars and sixty-plus years of unrelenting Palestinian violence and terror. Don't go looking for me to feel sorry for your "plight" any time soon. The Palestinian Arabs long ago made the choice to sow the wind. You have no right to complain when the time comes to reap the whirlwind. You are the victims of your own incredibly bad choices. But they were -- and are -- your choices, and you have to live with the consequences. The world isn't going to fix your mistakes. We're all pretty sick of you and your violent ways.

You make up stories and repeat them on every talkback. Do you have any fact about anything you say. Any fact that we had no hospitals or schools. If you blame consequence on choice it means the holocaust was also choice. I am not complaining, i simply offered to give away the rest of what i have to go with what was already taken. The part about pity came from your sub-concsious guilt, i did not ask for it, you thought it and hated that thought because it conflicts with your narrow view of the world so your turn it to sarcasim. I am not seeking restitution only jews do such things. The rest of the world moves on only your people cannot let go and want to have componsation from events 2000 years ago.

me...........well, nothing. BLOODYTHIRSTY SCOT GREATEST INSTANTLY CERTIFIED MIDDLE EAST EXPERT, AFTER WATCHING A FULL ONE HOUR AL-JAZEERA VIDEO COURSE ON THE SUBJECT DALLAS, TEXAS

The idea that the Holocaust was choice is an insult...which I'm sure was intended...but there are no comparisons to that can be made to what happened to the Arabs of Palestine. To me the proof of what Sarah states is irrefutable. When you read quotes from varied people who visited Palestine before the issue became so politicized, proves this point. Like Mark Twain in his book "innocents Abroad" which clearly describes Palestine as a undeveloped wasteland in the 1860's, others who visited Palestine in 1789, and even in the late 1500's all wrote about the desolation of this place. The fact is the Arabs who lived their thought of themselves as Syrians and even Arab historians who wrote about Palestine prior to 1940 say this in their books. You've been taught a false history and it's understandable that it would be hard for you to accept this. It would mean you have acknowledge that all your friend and family are wrong, quite a hard thing to accept. Yet that is the case and anyone who reads the unbiased accounts written anywhere from 50-150 years before the Zionist movement existed know all say and think are simply false and wrong. To dismiss it with the stereotype of a Jewish controlled media, shows the weakness of your argument. You don't have the facts on your side, so withdraw into antisemitism.

Whine, whine, whine. Do you think that you are the only refugees in the world? You're not. You are the ones that make the most noise (as empty barrels always do). One-third of the population of the African continent are refugees, and they do not get a scintilla of the attention that the Palestinians get. They aren't as violent as Palestinians are, either -- go figure. Stop complaining; stop whining. Get on with your lives. You had your chances, and you blew them all. Too bad for you. Learn to live with the consequences of your choices the way everyone else in the world learns to live with theirs. Unless and until the Palestinian people learn to do that, they will never amount to anything. What have you achieved in sixty-plus years? Not a single, blessed thing.

Of course Algeria refused..it would open the door for further Jewish claims in all and every single Arab country. While the eventual property of Arabs who left Israel are evaluated at at most something like 3-4 billion $, Jewish assets in the Arab countries amounts to something like between 150 and 200 billion $. In other words we do not owe the Arabs anything!

You,re 100% correct Mark about the Arab world perpetuating their own self inflicted naqba ,but the constant denial of this massive psychological blow to the Arab psyche is what drives people like Zeal to proapagandise ,to no avail ?

In what language, English or Arabic or maybe Hebrew ,did Ben Gurion communicate with Allon as the Arab/Palestine world has very bad tran slation skills as evidenced by UN mandate of May 1948 ,two states ,living side by side in peace and prosperity ,so which language Zeal as the translator/s didn,t get the precise translation right, try again?

The people you mention William were nomadic camel herders from Arabia looking for grazing land for their sheep and goats ,mixed in amongst the camels,after desertifying their own lands they needed fresh grazing ,what bettter way than to just bring the sheep ,goats and camels and let them feast on other folks (Jews) lands as there were,nt any policemen/border controls then ?