as Orthodox rabbis are absorbed into Ultra-Orthodoxy, history suggests that "the Orthodox" will mutely follow them into Ultra-Orthodox fanaticism. Has anyone bothered to consider what the Jewish world will look like after the Ultra-Orthodox swallow up the Orthodox? The conversion issue has already accomplished it. The rabbis, worldwide, have bowed down to the altar of Ultra-Orthodoxy. It only remains for their Orthodox followers to shut-up and do likewise. I'm not going down the road to Ultra-Orthodox simplism, fabulism and fanaticism. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer: Teimani, Baladi, Dor Dai Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jews & non-Jew geirim)

Kol Hakavod to the rabbi who ripped up the prenuptial agreement for Mutually Assured Destruction! His response is welcome and refreshing. This agreement is not halachic and serves to destroy not build marriages as Rachel would like us to believe.

Have you actually read this agreement? Do you have semicha? If not, then what is the basis of your post?

How do you know, did you read the pre-nup? The behaviour of the rav was erratic and arrogant. You seem to blindly follow any rav that doesn't agree with some 'innovation' that was agreed upon to be kosher by other orthodox rav's. What makes you so sure? I couldn't pass judgment on this before getting all the facts and mrs. Lubitch is famous for not presenting all the facts, only those she selctively thinks are relevant. I'd reserve judgment till a Bet Din has looked at it.

The ideology of Lubitch and her feminist cult is mentioned in this week's parsha (Deut. 12:30): "How do these feminists worship their goddesses, we will do likewise."

Where do you get YOUR facts? Please provide proof/ examples to back up your statement. Otherwise we must assume you make it a habit of doing what you accuse others of doing.

Your religious officials are no different from those of any of the other fundamentalist religions. Organized religion is the bane of humanity's existence. The realization of what G_d truly is requires a logical man or woman to reject the trappings of organized religion. Leave Israel, get married in a civlized country, go back if you must or desire and live happily thereafter without religion. You'll be a much happier person for it.

A ketubah is a special type of prenuptial agreement and outlines the rights and responsibilities of the groom in relation to the bride. So what is the big deal in adding some clauses to this contract? Do these Rabbis even know what a ketubah is? Their action just shows their complete ignorance to the facts of life in the modern world.

the picture is clear enough: Judaism in Israel is a hopeless maze of picayune "laws" administered by insolent rosh katan chareidi bureaucrats without a heart or common sense.

I read the agreement. I signed the agreement. I am divorced because of the agreement. It destroyed my marriage and when my now ex-wife wanted out because she was angry we spiralled down to divorce and the rabbinical court gave us a get willingly and our therapist just grinned that she got a few thousand shkekels for being useless and powerless. So yes it is a piece of garbage.

Much better you should have had the power to really punish her and bring her into line, right? Of course, you'd be allowed to remarry.

'Due to their great love, they decided to strengthen the connection between them with a pre-nuptial agreement that would make sure that one party would not take advantage of the other in the event of a possible divorce (get).' what a way to promote it!!

Since you have identified yourself as xttian missionary, what sort of comment could we expect other than hatred of the Pharisees?

Pre-nups are an abomination and are NOT in the spirit of the Ketubah. A Ketubah is about setting forth the responsibilities of a bride and groom to each other, DURING the marriage. Unlike a prenuptial contract, it's not about who gets what in the event of a divorce, i.e. AFTER the marriage. Prenuptial clauses are entirely outside the scope of a Ketubah. Furthermore, if you are not SURE that they are the One...don't marry them! If you are not SURE that not only do you love him/her, but that he/she loves you and WILL ALWAYS love you, don't marry the other person! A prenuptial is a recognition that the marriage can fail before it even begins. Often, this is a self-fulfilling prophecy by making it easy for people to exit their marriages instead of sticking at it and trying to make their marriage work through the bad as well as the good. The Orthodox community has such a low divorce rate compared to the secular community, and understanding that a prenuptial will get in the way of the absolute unification of souls is part of it. Kol Hakavod to this rabbi!

You presume a lot don't you/? It is easier to blame the man than consider the facts of human emotions and the affect on children right? Only a shmuck would refuse a get without valid reason. The Prenup holds the get over the man's head. Is that better?

In the modern orthodox community the divorce rate is approximately 40% among those between 35 - 45 and in some circles higher. BTW, in those who signed the prenup it is closer to 75%. So you got some facts wrong. Unless you speak only of haredim

Don't get married in Israel.