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Father adopts religion, but loses son
Einat Fishbein
Published: 01.08.10, 20:59
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38 Talkbacks for this article
1. Great victory!
Eddie ,   Israel   (08.01.10)
Im totally agree with her, she truly saved her kid from exremist, they wanna live free and normal life and why people are talking always that is an anti-Semitic decision there is nothing to do with antisemitism, court just saw that is more healthly life without any extreme religion!
2. how religion kills faith in G.d ...
aviG   (08.01.10)
or, how so-called religious kill the jewish people identity.
3. A good decision !
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.01.10)
A father who does not do anything to see his son can't be a good father . He is now at his third wedding , nice father . The judges in Strassbourg have judged for the well being of Noam . Nothing else was taken in account . It's not antisemitism , not anti Israeli ideas . Only the boy
4. This is why we should keep the chabad out of ramat aviv
Resident ,   Ramat aviv   (08.01.10)
They also approached my son in an attempt to brain wash him, when i went round there to complain i was met with abuse. Luckily i managed to save my son from these people just in time.
5. She is just as fanatical secular as he is religious
Lemmings Hotline ,   sd usa   (08.01.10)
6. He got the better end of the deal
iObserver and News ,   US-Israel   (08.01.10)
Any woman who is so shallow that she didn't even take an interest in her own heritage and "immediately" contacted lawyers and hatched a plan for an escape simply because her husband suggested she wear a skirt is a fanatic herself. She's clearly a european who'd rather party and lead an empty life. So be it. Noam will grow up and make his own decisions which people never pay attention to. When he's older, Noam will wonder what kind of mother he has that kidnapped him from his father simply because he wanted to practice his religion. Admittedly, chabas in Israel does not enjoy the same positive reputation it does in the US and has been found to involve itself in fanatical behavior completely remote from the great Tzaddik Rabbi Shneerson but in this case the woman was simply an immature European waif. She'll never be happy pursuing satisfaction: it ends once you swallow the candy bar, hence, the drug addict mentality of so many people today. Meaning has no appeal to the self absorbed. May Noam not fall victim to the empty lifestyle of europen liberal fanatacism: it's the ugliest template mankind has ever crafted.
7. #5 you just didn't read the article.
aviG   (08.01.10)
8. Right decision for sure
dave ,   uk   (08.01.10)
The father sounds like a total lunatic
9. What did the man want?
Roger ,   USA   (08.01.10)
It doesn't sound like he wanted a wife. It sounds like he wanted a cash cow and a brood mare. Let us see how much child support this loving father sends.
10. Parental kidnapping now legalized. Both directions!
Judo ,   Canada   (08.01.10)
The Hauge Convention Treaty outlawing cross border parental kidnapping between Israel and Europe and the US and Canada and other countries as well, mandates that in *ALL* cases the kidnapper is to be arrested, and the child is to be immediately returned to the home country for the child's home country courts to decide. This treaty is intended to discourage parental kidnapping, Israeli courts have in 100s of cases sent kidnapped children straight back to Europe without delay, along with the parent kidnapper in handcuffs to face trial. But no longer! No Israeli court will ever again enforce the Hauge Treaty. Any treaty is only legal when BOTH directions enforce it. If the European courts don't enforce the treaty, if the European courts now allow Israeli born children to be illegally kidnapped and kept in Europe, why on earth would you not expect the Israeli courts not to do the exact same thing in reverse? Any Jew living in Europe should now feel completely free to kidnap their baby to Israel. Since the European court decided to allow Israeli children to be kidnapped to Europe then surely the Israeli courts no longer must automatically send a kidnapped to Israel Jewish child back to Europe.
11. Next time it will be a secular losing to gentile spouse
bmos ,   chashmonaim, Israel   (08.01.10)
Be careful about rejoicing just because a religious Jew lost. It was Israeli law and Israel that was rejected. Next time a secular jew loses their child by kidnapping to a gentile spouse. The same outcome will occur. They went against their own Hague Convention
12. Little Shuruk saved
eli ,   israel   (08.02.10)
Great, now he can remain Jewish and not fall prey to some wierdo cult of a dead rabbi that claimed he was the messiah.............
13. Swiss wrong on Neulinger (and Polanski)
Sue ,   Los Angeles   (08.02.10)
What is with the Swiss? They protect child rapists (Polanski) and kidnappers. It is criminal to kidnap a child because you disagree with your spouse's level of religiosity. Chabad is a great organization, not some dangerous cult. The father was not physically abusing the child or the mother. I believe the Swiss decision was made for anti-Israel reasons and was a grave error. They should have returned the mother to Israel and let the Israeli court decide the case. Those applauding the decision have no clue what it is to have a child taken away from you. My niece was kidnapped as a baby and did not see her father until she was an adult. The emotional scars caused to both parents and child never heal.
14. Wrong Precedent
Saul   (08.02.10)
The issue is not was she right or wrong. The point is she committed a crime in Israel. The EU has NO right to overturn an Israeli court decision (whether it is good for religious or not).
15. I wanna go shopping in Paris! Cult, cult, cult, blah blah.
Moshe ,   J'lem, Israel   (08.02.10)
If she was really threatened, why didn't she seek a restraining order in Israel? Why is even the very liberal Israeli court against her, the same courts that always side against the Haredim? Why is every 3rd word out of her mouth cult, cult, cult? He's so terrible because, er, um, cult, cult, cult. Where are the specific charges against him? Just, Chabad is a cult. She runs to the goyim to complain about the Jewish "cult." She had to go all the way to Hiter's bankers to find someone who would agree. But it must be a cult because he asked her to wear a skirt. Eeek! And with high Israeli officials threatened daily with arrest in Europe over nothing why shouldn't he be cautious about going there? And oh! Who knows? He could be a kidnapper! Except that she IS. Chabad does EVERTHING for people. I know a million Chabad rabbis and none of them brainwash ANYBODY. But when you want to peddle hate, put the prefix "ultra" in front of it. Oh. I'm not against the Jews. Just the ULTRA Jews! Everyone thinks this is a good trick. And never forget that in the 1930s Jews in Western Europe thought Hitler only meant the Eastern Jews with their "funny clothes." Surely he doesn't mean me! Then they found out otherwise. Chabad is helping Jews all over the world and risking their lives for Jews. Like in Mumbai. A woman who kidnaps a child and drags him to another continent out of fear of a little Jewish tradition is anti-Semitic herself. She and the Swiss: Birds of a feather flock together. YOU watch. Some day that kid is going to grow up and become a Chabadnik just to rebel against his selfish, screwball mother and the lies she told him about Chabad. Cult, cult, cult, blah blah blah.
16.  European Court of Human Rights in Strasberg
Ezra ,   USA   (08.02.10)
The European Court of Human Rights in Strasberg ?!!! Gentile Kangaroo Court. They have no business deciding anything relating to Israel.
17. Disgusting
nr ,   los angeles, usa   (08.02.10)
How anyone, let alone a Jew, could agree with the court's decision or this pig of a mother who KIDNAPPED her child is beyond me. She is a criminal, and the last person to raise that child. Of course the court agreed with her - they are the sons and daughters of the same people who processed Nazi gold, keeping the world war II going and Jews murdered. How stupid can you people get?
18. The IDF should rescue him
Mordechai   (08.02.10)
They have failed Schalit they should not fail this boy. Send the IDF into Switzerland and bring this boy home. If Israel kidnapped Swiss children the world would go after her. Israel must protect her own children
19. why is it
yaakov   (08.02.10)
why is it that every nut case that chabad makes frum they all go a little more nuttier? not all chabad is bad so as hiw should i say this o all non jews are not all bad but for some reason te aviv wonts the illegal to stay but not in te aviv?
20. Talkbacks 10 and 11 got it right
Christian ,   Sweden   (08.02.10)
This is not about the fathers religious observance or mental status, it is about respect for an international convention that both Israel and Switzerland and several other countries are part of. The child was unlawfully abducted from Israel and should be returned there, period. And certainly the courts of Israel are sufficiently competent to decide what is in the best interest of the child. Evidently the court in Strassburg does not consider Israel to be part of the civilized world. And this decision is wellcomed by Israeli citizens out of pure hatred against Chabad and the Haredim. What a sad thing to see!
21. Sue 13 , can't you read ?
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.02.10)
It was the Court in Strasbourg , FRANCE that decided this case . The father wanted to take his child away by making him a "chabadnik" , against the will of the mother . The father has married twice since then . Nice guy !
22. I know the mother is right, because...
shneer   (08.02.10)
Because the talkbacks here that pounce upon her just have to invoke Nazi and Goyim to try and make their point. When they resort to smear tactics and name-calling, that means they have no true merit to the case. The boy belongs with his mother.
23. As a divorced person with two kids let me tell you
Al   (08.02.10)
The ones that suffer the most after all the 'he said..she said" are the kids. Most kids in spite of what you want to believe suffer thru a divorce of their parents. They try to mask it, but it cuts into them. In fact it even scares them. I'm a man in my mid fifties, I lost my parents over the past 4 years and I grieve for them. My parents were from a different generation..tougher, smarter; In fact more appreciative of life. My generation were spoiled selfish and quite frankly dumb. We married, had kids and in 50% of our marriages, divorced with our kids today in the early 20's or so. I speak to a lot of young people today. I find most of them very wounded by the divorce of their parents. Thats bloody sad...
24. It is not the right decision.
Susan ,   Kfar Saba   (08.02.10)
This is a terrible decision. It is totally against the Hague Convention, which both Israel and Switz have signed. It is meant to prevent parental kidnappings. If other countries want their children returned from Israel, they have to respect the rights of Israeli parents, otherwise they can throw this whole law out the window. I know lots of Chabad people and they are perfectly competent parents. My next door neighbor kidnapped her kids to the US. The husband came home from work one day and found a note on the table. She claimed he beat her and abused the daughter. I think she lied because I would have heard the fighting thru the walls. People make up all kinds of lies to keep the kids they have absconded with. Nobody can be forced to stay married to a person they don't want. There is a right way and a wrong way to do this. You move out and get an apartment nearby. You dont run away with the kid.
25. 17 , pig of a mother ? how do you dare !
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.02.10)
And what about the "father" ? who instead of going to a park with his boy , was proselyting with him . What about bthis "father" who did'nt try to visit his son during all those years . What about this" father" who hasd now his third wife ? Lok how he is behaving ! Now ast least Noam is with his loving JEWISH mother , who did what was needed for her son . The court in Strasbourg has the right to judge this case . They judged for the wellbeing of a boy , both sides are Jewish , remember it ! Isabelle introduced an appeal there against an opposite judgement by a Swiss court .
26. #21 Case was tried mainly in Lausanne (Switzerland)
Sue ,   Los Angeles   (08.02.10)
The Swiss court rejected the father's applications on 29 August 2006 and again on 22 May 2007. Finally on 29 June 2009 "the Lausanne District Court, at the request of Ms Neulinger, decided that Noam should live at his mother’s address in Lausanne, suspended the father’s right of access in respect of his son and granted parental authority to the mother." See "Neulinger and Shuruk v. Switzerland - Grand Chamber Judgment" http://strasbourgconsortium.org/document.php?DocumentID=5011
27. Al , 23 . Yes children can suffer
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.02.10)
But much depends on how the parents divorced . If both behave correctly , if they look at the children's wellbeing in the first place , there is not much damage caused . But sad to say , in many , or most , cases of divorce , both parents are inciting their children against the other side . I know a couple who divorced , but they were smart . In most cases of divorce , one of the first things you see , are poor results at school . Their children continued their great way at school . Now , the children told me , that their parents sit together at the Seder , talk to each other as friends would do , give phone calls . You see , you have'nt only to succeed your marriage , but also your divorce .
28. The Bible in Psalms says power belongs to God.
Rivkah   (08.02.10)
The judges have a higher accountability to Yahweh whether they believe in Him or not. Kidnapping the child was wrong and the mother should have worked things out in Israel. When my oldest sister's ex-husband abducted her only child as a baby and the courts and police and Social Security which provided an income for the foster mother protected the father in the abduction which was in concealed court documents, claiming the mother was dead when she was not, the judgment of Yahweh on Rachel's ex-husband was his physical death at the age of 34. His perjuries in court was blasphemy against the Holy Spirit and was likely an eternal separation from the Lord sin. The child was raised by a divorced foster mother who favored her natural born child but needed the Social Security income from the foster child, so she never adopted her. The foster mother was judged with ovarian cancer and died when her natural and foster child daughters were at least twenty. So she died young after robbing my sister of her parental rights. Yahweh will likely judge the mother with an earlier death than she would have had if she stayed in Israel and shared the child with his father. Or, both will perish in the coming holocaust of Jews under the rising Fourth Reich which the High Court represents more than anything else. In Israel, a Jew has a 1 in three chance (33%) of living to see the Messiah if He comes in this generation which many believe He will since the Prophet Zechariah said only a third of the Jews who returned to Israel will survive. But in a Fourth Reich Europe, a Europe Germany has conquered through the E.U. without a shot being fired, a Jew will have as much chance of survival as in Nazi Germany which is slim and none.
29. To number 4
Resident ,   Bat Yam, Israel   (08.02.10)
Ramat Aviv, is full of rich snobs and left wing idiots, and i seem to remember that they didnt want the refugees from Sudan coming to Ramat aviv either! So dont get all pure, how many Arabs / religious jews/ kids from South Tel aviv and refugees go to schools in ramat aviv?
30. This sets a HORRIBLE precedent!
Israeli citizen   (08.02.10)
Who cares if the father is religious or not, the mother KIDNAPPED him!!! How can the courts possibly agree that she gets custody? She belongs in jail.
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