thoughtful responses to my questions. I think a forceful USA could convince Egypt and Jordan to assume their proper responsibility with bonuses if they would do it that no king or dictator could turn down. O'Bama wouldn't as his mind is too fixed on fixing things his way, a way which will never work anyway.

since the benefits to both Egypt and Jordan can be great if only they were willing to have the international community harness itself to the development of the Sinai in general and the northern part of it in particular so as to enable some of the present day Gazans to be turned Egyptians to benefit from the agricultural, industrial and tourist potential found in that part of the world (Israel did so, until its citizens were expelled in the late 1970s). The southern part of the Arava, between the Dead Sea and the Red Sea, can also be developed with the assistance of the international community so as to allow "refugees" to settle there and develop the place economically. Israel has done it on its side of the border!!! In so doing, the cesspool called Gaza and the "refugee camps" elsewhere can then be dried up, thus helping the regional economic development and reducing the potential explosive situation in these locales, explosions from which not only Israel will be damaged but also the Arab regimes surrounding it. Are the Arabs have enough of an imagination to turn a bad situation into a beneficial one....?? Regardless of the question, the US, Russia, Britain, France and China with the political support of German and Japan should try to bring about the implementation of UN Security Council Resolution 242, AS IS, about, for the benefit of all.

...my a previous post, nevertheless, I'll emphasize two points: A) Security - Israel WILL NOT withdraw to non-secure boundaries without the proper very long term security mechanism required, largely envisioned by the late Yigal Alon and reiterated by the late Yitzhaq Rabin: 1) Jerusalem will remain united under Israeli sovereignty and will also include suburbs such as Maaleh Adumim and Givat Zeev. 2) Large settlement blocs will be part of the sovereign state of Israel. 3) The Jordan Valley must be viewed in the widest definition of the word and will remain under Israel's rule (October 1995, Israel's Knesset). I would only add: no Jewish village or town must ever be razed again just because it is Jewish, and no Jew - man, woman and child - must ever be expelled from any piece of land anywhere in the world only because they are Jewish, including the villages and towns of Samaria and Judea that may become part of a non-Jewish entity. If Arabs can live in Israel - nearly 20% of the population - so can Jews live in an Arab political entity. B) Economics/population - The Arabs of Gaza, once become citizens of Egypt, with the encouragement of the international community, i.e. US, UK, France, Russia, China, Germany, Japan, will be free to either stay in Gaza or move on, within Egypt or beyond. The international community will assist in providing the opportunities to develop the Sinai Peninsula where many Arabs from throughout Egypt, but mostly from Gaza, could be integrated while developing the area and benefiting from it. The same should be said about the way the world community can assist Jordan in developing the southern part of the Arava in which many of the present West Banker could settle and from which the entire state of Jordan will benefit. But before all else, there must be a will among the parties to move in a realistic way out, not towards the illusive "peace" which will not come in our lifetime - for inherent reasons found in Arab-Islam, in my mind - but toward an accommodation of PEACEFUL CO-EXISTENCE between Arab and Jew, between the Muslim-Arab world and the nation-state of the Jewish people, Israel.

Ynet's resident imposter had a very busy day yesterday. He posted no less than 10 fraudulent postings using my user name, as well as Sarah B's, and, yes, every yours. It's really pretty easy to recognize his fraud. He posts pro-Israel comments using Matty Grove's name, as well as critical comments between pro-Israel posters (such as you and I). Ynet. Can't you censor this juvenile delinquent?

To begin with the problem with your proposal is that it's rational. It makes rational assumptions. It attributes rational intent to western countries and the Arabs involved. I know I'm veering into a different area of discussion but this is not a problem about land or about a dispossed stateless people. THE REAL CAUSE of the conflict is - to put it in the most basic terms - one of international ANTI-SEMITISM. There have been rational formulas in the past to apportion the land. We can start with the Balfour Declaration and then the League of Nations Mandate. The latter one was violated in spirit and in practice. Why? Because of the fatal combination of political/economic interests and anti-Semitism. That same combination is alive and well today. We repeatedly ask ourselves why would the USA and EU - that allegedly are fighting terror - want to create a new political entity in such a volatile area. It does not make any sense, particularly now that Iran is emerging as a new ME superpower. What most people do not take into account is the long track of anti-Semitism in those same countries now promoting the Two State Solution. Their plan is nothing but the first stage into the eventual dismantling of Israel. Even many people who are not particularly anti-Semitic regard Israel as an irritant that must be removed. JEWS AS DHIMMIS The impracticability of your plan is most obvious when you allow the possibility of Jews living normal lives in a Palestinian state. You write: "If Arabs can live in Israel - nearly 20% of the population - so can Jews live in an Arab political entity." Jews fled by the thousands from more established and more peaceful Arab countries because their lives were hell. The Palestinians have gone through the PA educational system and I need to say no more in this regard. You know exactly what they think of Jews and what they'd do to them. ECONOMICS - Arab governments are not interested in the betterment of their people. Reason tells us that they should, because people who are oppressed and/or who live in sub-standard conditions tend to support subversive political movements. But as we well know, governments in general don't do what is logical and reasonable but what is most expedient. Besides, Arab internal political and religious conflicts override everything. Remember Lebanon when it was struggling to be a normal, prosperous, tolerant country? It didn't last very long. TIME IS RUNNING OUT The PA intends to declare unilateral independence. Please see my TB #18. There is no time for starting over. Israel has a tiny window of opportunity of a few months to save itself from that first stage of the plan leading to annihilation. THE ONLY SOLUTION is the immediate and full annexation of the territories. Israel has already said it intends to surrender 97% of Judea and Samaria. These last few years Jerusalem has been slated for partition and being prepared with significant Arab facts on the ground. The PM himself has said that "some" neighboorhoods will remain within Israel. Some. The rest will be forfeited. So, what is there left to discuss? Very little. The return of Arab refugee descendants. How much of Jerusalem to surrender. But when you pay attention to statements made by PA leaders you realize that they are quietly setting up the infrastructure and the conditions for independence. The PA has nothing to discuss because it does not need to. They can get everything they want through a unilateral declaration of independence. The whole world would support them. Now, how are Israelis going to stop their government from allowing that to happen? That is the question. PS - Jehudah, I'm sorry I mangled your name on my previous TB.

If the post at #34 is really from yourself and not this impostor then please disregard my comments to you yesterday. I think we all know who the impostor is but it would seem that Ynet is unable to prevent these posts even though I have written to the editor on this matter several times. It is a pity that this impostor does not understand that he or she is doing more harm than good. Do you have any suggestions on how we can discourage this impostor from posting under other peoples names?

Rest assured that post # 34 is, indeed, genuine, and that I harbor no hard feelings. I'm no psychologist, but it would seem to me that our resident imposter is a juvenile delinquent who gets his jollies by interrupting dialogue, as opposed to being a mature individual who holds a particular political viewpoint. Indeed, the narcissistic imposter seems to 'feed' off of the dialogue related to his mischief (such as our current correspondence). I would think that it would be simple enough for Ynet to identify the imposter's IP address, and block that address from any future postings. Unfortunately, it does not appear that Ynet is interested in doing so. (Of course, this should come as no surprise, given the trash they post from Peter from Vienna, Matty Groves from Ireland, Marco from Spain, etc..etc.) In any case, it is obvious that Sarah B, you and I generally share the same (pro-Israel) viewpoints, and other 'regulars' generally share their (anti-Israel) viewpoints. The imposter seems to like to use my name in posting critical/offensive comments to Sarah B and you (something I would never do). Similarly, he seems to enjoy using Matty Groves' name in posting Arab/Muslim-hating comments (something Matty Groves would never do). So, it really shouldn't be difficult to know when the imposter is having a particularly mischeivous day. Hopefully, it time, he will mature, and realize how foolish he was.

...nation-state of the Jewish people, Israel, is neither local nor about a piece of land, I agree with you. It is one that denies all non-Muslim non-Arab peoples the universally accepted right of all peoples, including that of the Jewish people, to national self-determination and independence within the region, sphere of control of Islam, or dar al-islam in Arabic. in the case Eretz Israel (Land of Israel) the conflict is with the Jewish people and the refusal of the Muslim-Arabs, local and regional alike, to accept the Jewish people's exercising its right to national self-determination on any parcel of land of its ancestral homeland of Eretz Israel (Land of Israel) and the cradle of Jewish civilization. Ideally, modern Israel would also include the Gilad and Moav and even Edom and Aza in addition to the Golan, Samaria and Judea. A less than ideal situation would incorporate Samaria and Judea into the sovereign state of Israel. But reality is far from ideal...!! No, I don't expect "peace". I think the concept in this context is an illusive one that for inherent reasons found in Islam, peace is not attainable. But I hope, not convinced it is possible, to achieve a rationally based accommodation of peaceful coexistence between Arab and Jew, between the Muslim-Arab world and the nation-state of the Jewish people, Israel. The basis for it, if there is any, I think, is that which has been accepted legally by the entire international community - for whatever the reason for acceptance has been - and from which all can benefit. And while I propose the UN Security Council Resolution 242, AS IS, to be implemented, I do so not without insisting that all security and national needs of Israel are met. I realize, with have a minor disagreement, but it is relatively minor; one based on one's assessment of what is and what is not possible under certain circumstances. shavu'a tov, Jehudah Ben-Israel

is quite clever, "flying doc" and is having a good laugh at our expenses while confusing us as to who is who and who said what. At any rate, we've all been the subject of this imposter's intent to ruin the quality of discussion. Even post #36, a very decent response to you, was not mine. You can email me personally to verify.

Thanks for continuing this discussion and train of thought. I have found it very thought provoking.

I think he was trying to prove a point re: "pretty easy to recognize" by running rings around us. I wouldn't be surprised if this imposter changed his tactics now that I have pointed out his modus operandi just to confuse us further. I wonder how many posts he has send in under unique names?

I think you're a juvenile delinquent who doesn't actually have any interests or opinions regarding middle east (or any other) politics. I think you're not pro-Israel, anti-Israel, pro-Palestinin, anti-Palestinian, liberal, conservative, etc. You're just anti-dialogue. Since you're obviously unable to formulate any opinions or arguments for yourself, you spend your worthless time creating mischief for those who are able to think for themselves. If you're under the age of 10, you're forgiven due to lack of maturity. If you're over the age of 10, I pity you.

i think that georgia is in asia ..so you think about peace in middle east it is peace to america and israil .... sir we paid the price of war and paid the price of peace with egypt and jordan ..if you are from here from gaza or nablus or e.jerusalem from ne3leen or bal3in from kalkelia you will know what residents are paying evry day ..salam to you in usa

Georgia is also an American state. Located on the south east seacoast of the US. You have never paid the price for your aggressions against most of the nations in the region. You keep on starting wars and then go whining to the world when we shoot back. Get off our lands and return to your own. We do not need you colonists occupying our lands.

Of course you've paid a price! You elected Hamas as your government, a group dedicated not to making peace agreements with Israel, but vowing to destroy Israel. So your condition is self inflicted, and you whine to me for sympathy? Why? I have no doubt you've had some hard times, but I hear the new water park is nice, and the forth luxury hotel just opened, add to that the new mall and I would say things are getting better. Although I must admit I don't understand how Israel making peace with Egypt hurt you?

We have seen that movie before is why I tip my hat to Ariel Sharon (I named my daughter after him). Israel's withdrawal from Gaza was the right thing to do. It exposed the Palestinians to the truth of what they are about. Sooner or later Israel must cut off the power and fuel from Gaza. Lieberman is not as dumb as some portray him. Sooner than later, we must declare a Palestinian State on west bank and get out. Let the Palestinians suck the blood money out of the EU. Robert Klein

Your comment reeks of emotionalism and shows no effort at all to think or to learn from experience. You say that the Gaza withdrawal exposed the Palestinians to the truth of what they are about. Really? Then why are the Palestinians more loved than ever by the international community and Jews more hated than ever since WW2. Hundreds of Gaza refugees are still without homes, Israel is still being attacked from the south and many Jewish lives have been lost. But you advocate for another withdrawal so that Israel will have not one but two Palestinian states or entities or whatever launching rockets into Jewish cities. Solving this problem should not be based on revenge or showing anything to the world but on careful thinking of what's best for Israel.