Opinion
We need another army
Eitan Haber
Published: 10.08.10, 23:58
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1. Would delegitimization of anti-Semitic religions help?
Eitan ,   Chicago   (08.11.10)
What would be the result of a campaign to spread Ibn Warraq's observations about Islam's falsehoods, alongside one that proves the Christian Gospels to be fan fiction built around Isaiah's imagery of the quintessential messiah, generations apart from all conceivable Israelite and Roman eyewitnesses? What if the important historical scholarship of Moshe Gil, Ephraim Karsh, Avneri, Ziff, and others were translated and publicized into continental European languages, so Jewish history in Israel after the Bar Kokhba Revolt was revealed to them? Would it help Europe lose its Palestinian Marconism neurosis, or finally divorce Christianity from its baneful role in providing national identity (and catalyzing hatred)? I've heard of grown men weeping when they learn that even the canonical figure of Jesus was a Jew (understandable, since biographical details have been that cult's weak point ever since Paul's Epistles). I think people need to challenge the falsehoods of the aggressors' religions, and even ridicule their adherents for clinging to stories disproven by historical chronicles and the slightest critical reasoning. The basis and relevance of anti-Semitism all flow from these two "great" religions, so why not clean up the pollution at the source?
2. Eitan @1
M Carr ,   Baltimore   (08.11.10)
Eitan, you are really over thinking the relationship between Christians and Jews. I don’t usually agree with Haber, but on this issue he is correct. I spend many hours writing talkbacks expressing my support for Israel and the Jews hoping that my words will strengthen them. I also hope that Muslims read my words and the words of others with the hope that they will begin to moderate their hatred and fear of the Jewish State. Your dislike and mistrust of Christians is understandable but very painful to me. It causes me to pause when I am in the heat of battle with Israel’s many enemies. But, I regroup and remind myself that not all Jews feel the way that you do and I keep on writing.
3. # 1 Eitan
Sagi   (08.11.10)
Sir, you used the word pollution and to this I refer. I am a confirmed Atheist and to boot a known ridiculer of religion. This makes me unbiased and completely neutral. To me all religion is nonsense and all the adherents and followers have "polluted" minds as you say. Christianity is the biggest lie ever perpetrated in the history of Mankind. Islam is not a lie but rather an invention born out of the mind of one man who like many others "talked to God" but he managed to "sell" his invention and it shot roots and gathered momentum. Judaism is the religion of the only Canaanite group that survived the era and indeed managed to keep its head above water for 3 millenia despite the trials and tribulations it experienced. The difference between Judaism and the other two is that Judaism is in large part based on historical facts whereas the other two are fairy tales. I am not plugging Judaism here because as I said religion means zero to me. My point. There are 2.5 billion Christians in this world and 1.2 billion Muslims. That is roughly 60% of humanity. The Jews of this world number 18 million maximum. Let us presume that the 60% are "polluted" and someone has to clean them up. Who exactly, an army of Jewish philosophers headed by Nachman Shai ? We stand less of a chance than a snowball in hell. I predicted more than 25 years ago the insidious Moslem onslaught on the Western world. I was told that I am racist and stupid. I told people that Westminster and Notre Dame will one day be replaced with mosques. I was told that I was evil for thinking such thoughts. Today it is obvious and self evident that my prediction is slowly materializing. I am glad That I shall be pushing daisies when it happens. I am sad that I shall leave behind 12 grandchildren who will witness it. It will happen simply because might is right, not because "God" is right. Potestas omnia vincit. It is just the way of things, since time immemorial.
4. when were we the world's favorite?
Golan ,   Modiin   (08.11.10)
back in 1948 when the Americans put a weapons embargo against us? In 1956 when the Brits and the French turned their backs on us and when The Americans threatened sanctions against us? In 1967 when Russia closed its embassy in Israel? When the French put a weapons embargo on us? When the Americans sent a spy ship against us? 1973 when AFTER Israel turned the tide that the Americans sent weapons to us? 1981 when we fought a war against terror and the Americans condemned us? 1980 when we blew up Iraq's nuclear plant and were condemned by the entire world? 1991 when rockets fell on our heads and the world condemned us for WWI? In 1994 when every bus seemed to blow up? Ahhhh in 1995 when we buried Rabin. Right! The world loves us when we bury Jews.
5. Israel delegitimizes Israel
Steve Benassi ,   Silver Bay, MN USA   (08.11.10)
How can a few million Jews invade and defeat a one billion Muslims. They can't. Even with the help of 2 billion Christians. We are tired of Zionism and Terrorism.
6. This is where you should start
Marcella   (08.11.10)
Start at Israeli universities and news media establishments and demand enforcement of an effective code of ethics. No need to silence citizens but if someone wants to work as an educator or a journalist, then he must fulfill some minimum requirements. And just as other countries have limits to freedom of speech (regarding slander, incitement, racism, and so on), besieged Israel is more justified than anyone else to demand certain standards from its own citizens. Statements that denigrate the country or the Jewish people - so common among Israeli academia and journalists - are the starting point in this PSYCHOLOGICAL WAR against Israel. You may design the most ambitious plan to counteract the international campaign of delegitimization - but it won't do much good unless you carry out some house cleaning first I'm waiting to hear what you plan to do about your professors, television commentators and other folks who call for boycotts and spew venom against their own country and their own people. Oh, and by the way - it would not hurt to have a serious talk with some top Israeli government officials who have used extremely offensive language when referring to Israeli citizens living in Judea and Samaria.
7. Agreement from Texas
Elizabethlynne ,   Dallas, TEXAS!   (08.11.10)
Israel is dealing with a very hostile US and European media---these are media sources that outright LIE or LIE by Omission, or twist and distort. There needs to be a huge PR effort in Israel to publicize---through other channels because biased media such as CNN or the rotten BBC will not cover anything that does not demonize Israel. Israeli and friends of Israel need to get their facts in order---true facts---and do presentations in the churches and to organizations all over the world. Use alternative media sources when the BBC and CNN won't cover, say the rockets hitting Israel but feature a story of the IDF removing Bedouins from their homes (without giving the reason for it). If you have not noticed the OBAMA administration is no friend of Israel. Take action and take it now. Yes, your lives depend on it.
8. # 1 Eitan
J.K. ,   Brooklyn USA   (08.11.10)
Eytan ! The driving force of Antisemitism in the world are the Muslims and the college professors of the left who also hate Christianity, the Scandinavians don't attend Church anymore but joined the Arab bandwagon against Israel, what Israel can do,to paraphrase the late Edley Stivenson:if you tell about me lies,i'l tell about you the truth,Israel must expose the Arabs for what they are,jealous and vengeful,and it's not about land,just hatred ,the Muslims don't care when brown Muslims kill black muslims in the Sudan,but they scream and yell and point fingers and blame everybody except themselves, for problems that they themselves have created, they are driven by religion a very dagerous fuel.
9. Atoms not molecules
michael ,   usa   (08.11.10)
Too few Jews to fight at the grass roots. Arab strategy is to work the periphery, where there are no Jews to counter the lies about Israel. Cant monitor every small town press to influnce public opinion. Going to take more than molecules--probably more like atoms.
10. An army for 'Deceit'?
Edithann ,   USA   (08.11.10)
Are you recommending an army for deceit? How far will you get? Is the world so ignorant that they don't or wouldn't understand? To go after the religion to prove it's banality is one thing, but be prepared to expose the Talmud and it's agenda... Are you mad? TATA
11. Deceit spread around the world
Edithann ,   USA   (08.11.10)
Here's what's wrong with Israel...and they don't need deceitful couriers...you just need serious mental health therapists.. http://www.avigailabarbanel.me.uk/growing-insanity.html
12. We need an army without uniforms ,...
split ,   usa   (08.11.10)
You have an army without uniforms an annonymus hasbara sodiers but we have a real time pictures while you bombing apartment buildings schools, destroying infrastructure killing indiscriminately everything around destroying neighborhoods with phosphorus and cluster bombs It's your conduct combined with your arrogance, stupid.
13. #1 ,...
split ,   usa   (08.11.10)
Get a life dude - Your dedication to your dogma reminds me of those nuts that keep knocking to my door since I own my home and told them to take a hike few decades ago ,...
14. No one is deligitimizing IDF...the World has and will be...
Persian CAT   (08.11.10)
delegitimizing Zionism and Apartheid. Please get your facts right.
15. Maybe Israel can learn from Germany
Neo ,   EU   (08.11.10)
I can understand the report of Eitan Haber, but I dont think such an "agressive" charme campain would work that way. Germany for example just had the best result in a bbc poll (comes out every year) of 23 asked countrys, the poeple of all nations gave germany the best notes for its influence in the world before all other countrys took part. Its not of course, that germany after word war II is so positive seen now worldwide, before the USA and all other nations. Maybe Israel can learn from german politics in the world. Learn to solve problems more peacefull, more calm. Try to get along with anybody, Try to forgive more and to find a better dialogue with other nations, especially muslim nations..Maybe give more into the world, then it ll get back a lot too! And especially try to solve problems (like the gaza raid) together with other nations, for example the EU or the USA or its neighbours, try not to be the underdog all the time, instead try to do more dialogue, to solve problems in cooperations.. It should be Israel did request to join the EU and not turkey!
16. You can see the Jew hatred on ynet forums
(08.11.10)
17. Eitan #1
kelly ,   toronto   (08.11.10)
So you think bashing other people's religions will make them more tolerant of yours? Are you serious? While some of the many kind and tolerant Israelis are out doing Israel's public relations work, do everyone a favor: stay home and keep your mouth shut.
18. You dont need a PR Army
George V ,   Myrtle Beach   (08.11.10)
Make a FAIR peace with your neighbors and you'll be amazed at how fair the world will treat you.
19. Gaining a clear picture
Ken ,   Australia   (08.11.10)
This is the picture most jews are realizeing at present, why is this the case, how could the world fall for this anti- israel campaign by states who reject the state of israel and provide the propaganda to there mnasses to perpetuate it. Muslim countries are the ones useing ant-jewish doctrine to cause negative sentiment across the world. Muslims spread around the world like flies not to fit in to another society but to promote anti-israel - Which is the Great Propaganda machine in the muslim world. Its a bazzar continuem of years of jew hatred - legitamizeing themselves and of course de-legitamizeing us. For thousands of years have they tried to shatter our existance, history tells these times, when they have destroyed us. Today the only thing left for them is to use 1 billion muslims against us. Is israel a great state - YES - can they destroy it NO. Why, because they have no right and we must remeber no one has the right to tell us we casnt exist and we dont have any rights to the land. It is ours, it always has been ours, so its time to tell the gentile world to get off our backs, all they seem to do is pursue there fascination with jews. We are recognised in this world , the only ones who dont recognise us are states who have no credability, such as indonesia, burma ect......, Once Iran is dealt with, the terrorists are dealt with and the countries whom support them are dealt with , we can understand that the muslims cant ever create this greater islam on the top of our graves. Israel is not going anywhere and neither are the jews, its all about containg the arab picture and not haveing there desires fed by the world.
20. new army
brian glenville ,   jerusalem israel   (08.11.10)
This really is the silly season for news. I tried re reading this opinion about setting up " immediately, a huge body, a sort of IDF". Each time, the same answer, this article is complete and utter nonsense. Save this author for Purim spiels. It's complete and utter nonsense!
21. and vice versa to be honest, #16
Cameron ,   USA   (08.11.10)
22. "Jewish" PR Army?
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (08.11.10)
Jews are Ultra-Orthodox! No, Jews are atheists! No, Jews are queers! No, Jews are socialists! No, Jews are capitalists! There's no end to the fragmentation--minim. That's right, call 'em an army and send 'em out to destroy each other. Oh, I forgot. That's what we have now!!! When you have a public that's all over the religious and political map, there is no unifying issue. No unifying issue translates to no effective army, an army as obsessed with dishing out "friendly fire" as shooting at the enemy. We are headed toward greater fragmentation, not unity. The moderate middle, until recently known as Orthodox, is being forced to choose between being devoured by the Ultra-Orthodox or being relabeled as traditional. When you freely publish lies and slander from anonymous deviants cowering in dark corners on the same level as those presenting documented facts then those who choose to be constrained to fact have no level field to compete. False claims seem as legitimate as factual claims; and the false claims, having no limitations, become more attractive to the gullible masses. When you refuse to post facts while publicizing false claims that support your agenda--which I've known you to do--that's bald-faced propaganda; making you no better than the posters who do the same. You think the world is going to buy that slop? You are, indeed, naïve and stupid; self-destructing your own credibility. The only ones against being responsible are the frauds and charlatans who depend on lies and slander to defend their positions. Unwelcome facts are essential to facing up to reality. But defending Israel's case before the world requires a unified position, and Israel cannot make progress toward unity until she at least takes the first step of eliminating the divisive lies and slander--denial of documented facts--from the public dialogue, requiring authors and posters to be responsible for their words to the laws against libel and defamation. Until then, any army you muster will be continue to be obsessed with shooting each other. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer: Teimani, Baladi, Dor Dai Jew Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jews & non-Jew geirim)
23. pr
ant lover ,   eu   (08.11.10)
PR could be far better, a larger amount of it, translated in all major languages, more sophisticated and simple at the same time, yet that costs quite a lot. Seems like some additional personel is required, to exterminate the ants and count the shells lol, or the PR will keep suffering, although recently some sparks of hope can be observed, regarding conduct and speech of officials. Way to go.
24. Barry Rubin, a noted mideast scholar,
Robert Haymond ,   Israel/Canada   (08.11.10)
offered his take on the recent Brooking's Institute survey of citizens of mideastern Arab countries and plus Iran. The radical state of hatred of Jews, Israel and America is beyond belief. Yet the niave Talkbacker says we should "make peace", be friendly and, supposedly, all will be well. This is also the niave assumption of European and American liberals and runs all the way up to the American president. Of course, O'Bama's reasoning is having just the opposite effect of peace. The more he appeases, the more the mideastern nations demand. As to peaceful relations, well, the mideastern people themselves, under the aegis of the Koran, the imams and the "educational" are becoming increasingly radicalized. I would suggest the niave Poster actually google Barry Rubin and read his very revealing article.
25. did we have a hearts and minds campaign against Nazis
avrom ,   bet shemesh   (08.11.10)
or did we destroy it with a dresden and a hiroshima .you never change peoples minds through arguement the only thing that changes peoples minds are events such as 0/11 pearl harbour and intifadas if my religious book tells me that the moon is made of cheese you can bring me all the logical scientific proofs you want i will not change my mind because I BELIEVE
26. doesn't get it
(08.11.10)
Haber doesn't get it The people delegitimizing Israel are all Israelis, just to name a few, Neve Gordon, Uri Avneri, Anat Kam. The Israeli NIF spends all its money delegitimizing Israel. Yariv Oppenheimer has just received a grant from Spain to attack Israel. And of course, there is Haber himself.
27. Anti-Semitism
Stefan ,   Tel Aviv   (08.11.10)
I have spent thousands of hours on talkbacks on the Scandinavian talk back forums (because of my native language) trying to put the records straight. It does not work and the reason is very simple. The reason is exactly the same as it was in the pre-war Germany. Hitler sold anti-Semitism like the present European media does. However, that is not the point. The major issue is the clientele. They really want to buy it!! The happy buyers will always justify their hatred of Israel by citing their media. Because their media said so, they can feel comfortable in their anti-Semitic furor. The only way to really make an impact would be constant (if possible academic) media watch and analysis. This would be specifically important concerning state owned media such as TV, but major newspapers are important as well. The other thing is that Israel (the government etc) must stop legitimizing itself by citing international laws etc. The other side will always twist it around. We need to change the disc. The message must be made as clear and simple as possible. Like: "There will be no flotillas to Gaza. Period", or "there will be no rockets from Gaza. Period" or "there will be no kidnapping of our soldiers. Period". You see, it was us that gave the impression that these issues are negotiable. They are not, so we need to act accordingly. That is the only language they really understand.
28. diplomacy failures
David ,   Lund Sweden   (08.11.10)
It is true that Israel has failed in recent years to win acceptance for its existence in the world. Israel already has organised the diaspora Jews, and they are doing what they can to fight the de-legimitaztion. Obviously it has not been enough. The remedy to the problem would be to focus on sentimental PR. It might sound as a joke, but the truth is that for winning sympathy, feelings are most important. It is through feelings in the heart one win support, not so much from pure facts. As an example, in a fight between two persons, when the public is deciding who to sympatize with, the question of who started the fight, what is was about is not so important. Instead the story behind it is more important: Let's say that one person recognized his mother's murderer. The point is, one win sympathy not through people's brain, but their heart.
29. The Responsibility for Ourselves
David Chester ,   Petach Tikva, Israel   (08.11.10)
This is surely with ourselves and the claim of it all being placed on the army is incorrect. When will there be a time when the responsibility of our self gobernment is give to all those who want to take part? I should be possible to organize our system of representation so as to cober everyones needs and in particular to do it witout involving party politics, by choosing those needs that apply fairly to all of the population.
30. haber
alexi   (08.11.10)
I want to assure yoiu haber, that israel has a good people and a good army, a very good one which they proved in 2006 when they took 4000 missiles from hassan and waited for the idf to counter. Unfortunately, your and barnea's friend and hero, olmert screwed up the war and never let the idf regroup and savagely attack nasrollah. So the problem is in th eleadership either in lack of training or failure of nerve which again, your buddy olmert excels as he is a scared rabbit and it is highly evident. His law degree does not protect him from that. Unfortunately, it transpires that idf supposed war hero is also a scared rabbit and I am talking about barak. He stops in his tracks when clinton and sarkozy say do not do it. he stops all the time. Trengo related very well that barak is a m ilitary disaster for israel. i still feel that he was the one who gave the order for non lethal weapons on the flotilla which enable erdgogan's terrorists. No, haber, the problem for israel is its empty leadership. Even bibi is weak and uncertain but he is honest about it. All your friends-olmert, beilin, barak, ramon, barnea, verter, dekel, peres, ben ami, are weak and insubstantial characters and do not lead the idf well at all. Haber, take some medication, go to the counsellor for help. Your depression knows no bounds. And really ascertain what disease motivated you to support a crook and coward olmert.
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