Jewish Scene
Rabbi Amar: Stop Reform Jews
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 12.08.10, 18:02
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31. STOP attacking Rabbi Amar!
Israeli 2   (08.13.10)
He is right. He is not demanding the reform movement to become orthodox. He is just saying what every true Torah loving Jew should know. Don't even think about destroying the Torah, Israel and Jewish values with all that the Reformists stand for.
32. Debate with libs/reform-=WORTHLESS
iObserver and News ,   US-Israel   (08.13.10)
Liberals & Reform are Selfish cowards with NO morals, which is why they choose their given paths. Only a tiny handful of them are truly intelligent and courageous enough to see their path as a silly act of laziness and the quest for acceptance by the "nations". However, they'll never be accepted by them simply because they have chanuka bushes and eat ham sandwhiches. They just look like Fools and backstabbers to their own heritage. The conservatives are two steps away from being observant: they're just too frightened to be rejcted and give up their cushy lifestyle. Modern humans are the most dispicably self serving monsters in human history; barely worth a damn. While a Jew is a Jew and we must love them regardless, tell us how the heck we r supposed to tell which ones are real Jews and which ones r not!? It's bad enough with the Ashkenazim who've less than1% blood purity and have countless cases of bad conversions and tons of intermarriage. Modernity has made us fat, lazy and self-serving ignoramous'. How are we to reason with 6.5 biilion morons and a majority of Jews who want to be just like them? Liberalism is not just a religous hlocaust: it is a genocide against culture and heritage. But what an exciting future we all have! Everyone will be tan with slanted eyes and sit on their tuchous' attempting to satisfy their physical and emotional desires while the world crumbles around them but there is no minority left to point their fingers at! but at least we'll all perish "as one" and in "peace". Stupid li erals: murderers and THE most selfish creatures in the universe. The Honorable Rabbi is 100% correct but try talking to the libtards who disagree: they are humanities TRUE terrorists and haters. Not an ounce of reason in them.
33. Subjectively speaking, there are arrays of issues.
Ernest ,   USA   (08.13.10)
To sit down and go through the issues one by one wouldn't be a bad idea. Some people think that how life is lived by one, or a unit, doesn't affect anyone else. It very well can, especially when you're claiming the same faith, standards and/or intent. Where are the lines to be drawn? God wills the unity for and in rightousness sakes. A prayer: Lord, humbly and with a contrite spirit, we beseech thee, bestow upon us enlightenment and blessings for peace and security here and the world over. Amen
34. #4 Excuse me. . .
nr ,   los angeles, usa   (08.13.10)
Just what are reform "traditions"? Can't really push what they don't have, now, can they?
35. The Rabbi is right
Shalom ,   Ashdod, IL   (08.13.10)
To #3 please note that Rabbi Amar is taking care of his flock; that is Am Israel. Reform Judiasim is not even Jewish - they do not beleive that the dead are going to rise again. Conservatives, like that idiot Hess have atered the Halacha to the point that it is now a mish mash just like the stuff that is in the head of Hess.
36. I agree with the rabbi, but...
Susan ,   Kfar saba   (08.13.10)
the rabbinate has become damaging to a lot of Jews. I am halachically Jewish, but I can't produce anything more than my own ketubah. I don't know what my grandmother did with her ketubahs(she was married twice), but after her death we couldn't find them. American birth and death certificates don't state one's religion. I am really worried that when my kids want to get married, they won't be allowed to. Don't they have an interest in Jews getting married and having children? And canceling people's conversions is just plain cruel. First, Rabbi Amar has to do something about the rot that is in the chief rabbinate.
37. Given only a choice between Orthodox and secular
Zvi   (08.13.10)
there are many who choose secular. But what if the middle ground were better supported in Israel? What if Israel treated Masorti Judaism like a legitimate choice? Perhaps there would be fewer outright seculars are more people making an effort to be Jewish. I visited an Italian Jewish community once. In Italy, even more than in Israel, there are only two choices: Orthodox, or completely secular. And the Italian Jewish community is small and shrinking, in part because people simply opt out. One of the Italians - Orthodox, mind you - told me that he wished there were a Conservative or Reform branch in Italy, because he believed that many who today opt for complete secularism would instead opt for a middle option, and it would be easier for them to return to Orthodox Judaism from that middle ground than from nothing at all. So this comment is not really my idea; it is his.
38. Torah is a spiritual candy factory
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (08.13.10)
There is no parallel for leading a purposeful, happy and rewarding life. Nothing else, material or fable, is even remotely close to the Creator-Singularity's workings. Every Shabat, every religious Jew recites: "The ox-brained person (איש בער) doesn't know and the stupid person (כסיל) doesn't understand this." Religious salesmen who distribute samples of vinegar have never, and can never, attract anyone beyond their indoctrinated ghetto to keep Torah. It is critical to distinguish between absolutely and uncompromisingly barring the doctrines, and exposing the falseness, of assimilation or Christianity--as opposed to hating the non-Orthodox or Christian persons. Bar the false doctrines absolutely, but salvage what people are willing. Effective writing would have made that the rabbi's first paragraph rather than an afterthought. To regather the flock the rabbis have driven away requires a fundamental change in the rabbis methods of shepherding. All people would love Torah if they had a decent opportunity to sample Torah that is relevant to reality, sweet, purposeful, satisfying and rewarding; purged of irrationality, ignorant fable-izing and sanctimony no less than compromise and assimilation. You cannot condemn "their" strayings (compromise and assimilation) while sanctimoniously calling your own strayings (compromises of rationality, fable-izing additions, European assimilation and sanctimony) "holy." Torah and logical Halakhah is an Immutable standard to aspire to (as well as to convert to), not a possession to argue over ownership with authority to manipulate--a peer of the Creator-Singularity. Our increasingly educated world and shrinking globe spells an inexorable end for religious fanatics who persist in selling fables and supernatural mumbo-jumbo that contradict the Immutable laws of the Immutable Creator governing our universe. The light of education, knowledge and communication is encroaching even the darkest corners of ignorant isolationist cults that follow men instead of serving ha-Sheim according to His Torah. "Torah is not so far from you that you need someone to go get it for you..." How many Orthodox realize that Torah explicitly commands: "Do not follow the majority to wrong." You read it at least once every year while never challenging fallible rabbis. Rambam and his rationalist followers are right: logic--the rational intellect endowed to each of us by ha-Sheim, not an irrational consensus or blind and mute obedience to rabbis--dictates legitimate Halakhah; and the irrationalists (Kabbalists) have strayed from Torah. "Poof!" religion--whether Christian, Jewish, Islamic or other--is doomed to give way to education and knowledge. The way--the only way--for Orthodox Judaism to retrieve the flock they have driven away is to embrace education and knowledge--including documented history and archeology--instead of banning it But too many Orthodox fear knowledge instead of ha-Sheim Who is the Author of all Knowledge. Either way, education and knowledge are going to win... and show the way to Torah as it has been for millennia; as Mosheh, the Neviyim, Ribi Hileil, Ribi Yehoshua and Rambam knew it. Considering that well over 90% of the world's Jewish community have made that determination already that train left the station some time ago. The rabbis can catch up or remain left behind... hmmm, same choice facing the Christians and other goyim. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer: Teimani, Baladi, Dor Dai Jew Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jews & non-Jew geirim)
39. Bar FALSE doctrines he dares to write !
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.13.10)
But he is doing it himself ! Not only is this a fake guy , a liar , a deceiving "person" , now also a hypocrite . This all for paqid .
40. No. 37 Zvi
NYC Girl   (08.13.10)
Actually, that Italian gentleman hit the nail on the head. It always seemed curious as to why, since the majority of Israelis aren't Orthodox, they wouldn't embrace the Conservative and/or Reform movements as a viable alternative. But then it turned out that a professor who writes on these issues, explained that by not having less rigid alternatives to Orthodoxy, it makes it easier for Israelis to shun religion all together...which is what they really wanted to do in the first place. But by having the option to become part of a more liberal movement, it would remove the excuse many Israelis use for avoiding synagogues, for instance, since the synagogues are almost exclusively Orthodox...and these Israelis are not.
41. WShat connection do Reform "Jews" have to Israel
Eliyahu ,   Rosh HaAyin   (08.13.10)
From the inception of this deviation from Torah, their founders removed all reference to Israel in their prayer books, only recently did they re institute prayers for Israel. They do not accept Torah as Divine and only concern themselves with "social" issues such as cruelty to animals, gay rights, women s rights environmental issues etc. They substitute the main points of Judaism with the minor points . Let them stay in the USA where they can assimilate like Marc Mezvinski and the majority of their ilk. Let them convert their flock in the Uncle Ben's Converted Rice factory under the leadership of Rabbi Aunt Jemima and Rabbi Mrs. Butterworth
42. 39 Hmmm, atheist, UR one of the non-Orthodox
Israeli ,   Israel   (08.13.10)
So UR false!
43. The Truth lies in the middle. Reform DOES = 90% assimilation
Jae ,   Lynn US   (08.13.10)
and no substance from Judaism. It is more akin to an atheist, materialist, do what you want completely lifestyle. The Judaism lies in thebagels and log spread next to the scallops wrapped in bacon, at the prayer service, under the statues of the early Christian saints at the local roman catholic church, because the reform "temple" is under renovation. The members all support an organization that does not defend Israel, but attacks it, J Street. They go to administartive functions and 1 holiday service a year. It is what it is. I wouldnt be judging them if they mind their own business in the US, but they put their bacony hands in everything sinc ethey have money and thus power. At the same time orthodoxy needs to reflect more unity, more self-help aspects, more courage to face the issues it has- courage from its leaders. The spirit of the law needs to be emphasized again and again, like the prophets of old. Judaism should never ever be unnecesarily tedious, that is a hillul Hashem. " Paraphrased quote from Dvarim (Deuteronomy) Dont go to the right or the left of my Torah"
44. #29 Israeli
BENJAMIN ,   Singapore   (08.13.10)
I am an ORTHODOX JEW but I have to say what I must say ! IF YOU CANT HANDLE IT TOO BAD ! About your " wiped out " and "erased " CRAB ..dont play RIGHTEOUS ! You are the cause, you are the one stopping THE lowest so you may do youself a favour....STOP MAKING A MOKERY OF YOUR SELF ! YOU NEED NOT trible !
45. #31 NO BODY IS ATTACKING R SHLOMO AMAR...
BENJAMIN ,   SINGAPORE   (08.13.10)
WHAT YOU ARE A HIS MOUTH PIECE... PEOPLE ARE EXPRESSING THEIR OPINION.. WAHT IS YOUR LOSS ?
46. Let's stop blaiming Reform and Conservative for assimilation
John ,   Europe   (08.13.10)
ANYONE living in galut will tell you that if you are not living in 4 galut-centers (New York, LA, London, Paris), things are VERY difficult. Upholding the kashrut, bringing your child up in Israeli spirit - most difficult. Simply, resources are scarce and obtaining is difficult, while the sheer number of members of kehilot make it non-attractive market, what results in HIGH prices. That results in people abandoning kashrut. Add to that interior conflicts - which are very notable, it seems that only mr. Leshon HaRa and mis. Sinut Hinam survived the Holocaust intact. Add to that the problem of marrying Jewish: either particular people grew up with these people (and that makes them "as sisters and brothers, so marrying them would be kind of incest"), or again, there is Lashon and Sinut, so you do not want to have anything with them. Add to that the fact that Jewish schools are scarce, it is difficult to get even Jewish kindergarten, and the logical result of children being integrated in non-Jewish environment, and you will have mixed marriage in no time. (Now, personally I DO NOT HAVE ANYTHING AGAINST A MALE NON-JEW MARRYING A FEMALE JEW, since it will SPREAD the Jewsih population in my country and give me hope that maybe, somewhere, some day, there will be again strong Jewish community here). So, assimilation is not just a product of "reform and conservative hatred for poor and clean datim" (I can even testify that the MAJORITY of Leshon HaRa and Sinut Hinam I received, I received in DATIM communities), it is a combination of external and internal facts and consequences and cannot be pasted on simple "hate". Deal with this problems, you will have less people assimilating.
47. Exactly Right # 23
Aviva ,   NY   (08.14.10)
In sephardi shuls, the secular sit with the religious and everyone gets on. I have no issue at all with people's level of observance. But these other movements have introduced conflict where there is no need to be any. Orthodoxy is the Jewish standard but the level of observance is between you and G-d.
48. Zvi @ # 37
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.14.10)
I had , not far from 50 years ago , a discussion with a liberal rabbi . He said the same , approx , as your Italian Othodox person : he prefered that Jews come to the synagogue by car on Shabbat instead of not coming at all and so loosing every contact with Judaism . For me the problem with reform Judaism is the way they convert gentiles , mostly in order to marry a Jew . I think that in many , if not most , of such marriages no much Jewish will remain . Their children will most likely also marry non Jews .
49. Reafirms cult strategies are being used
Josh   (08.14.10)
First of all this "eating up our pure and holy nation" is a lie. I have never seen so much lack of Torah. Would G-d really declare us holy as we stand at each others throats today? Pure is not defamation of character and that is exactly what is being said. "Claws?" Next will we see characters of hook nose and rats as we saw in Germany? Seems like the curse of "you shall be lied to and cheated all you day" is here as a cursed plague. "plague of assimilation" is not here but rather a Israel is ruled by a silent oppressive shadow government that monitors and controls the lives of native Israelis in a manner akin to slaves or cults. To sweep away a natives right to hear and decide, the foriegners are being falsely ridiculed, because the natives are the captives, not because the sucess of American Jews could be confused as cursed. Modesty squads and surveillance cameras give an eagle eye to control free will and thoughts and evict Americans from jobs, homes and society. The cultic mafia like grip that has been held over captive native Israelis is spotted. It is challenged by educated people and the Rabbis is blaming "outsiders" to assure cultic fear only further identifies natives are captives of cultic measures. I went over Steve Hassans 26 characteristics, only found two that don’t match. Cult people are nice but misled for unquestionable power of evil men who must use deception not truth to gain their position. People that assist in such are locking their own cages and enslaving their own children under continued oppression. No Protecia but Torah fairness, honest, rhiteousness, and love. Only then will the smile come back to this nation and the strengths of true heaveanly backing. Devarim 13 and Devarim 18 shows these natives freedom from unathorized men speaking as if they speak for G-d.
50. I've seen more perversion and crime in Israel
David   (08.14.10)
The nudity and perversion on TV is more here than I have ever seen in Reform or Conservative Jewish people in the US. What type of leaders decive their followers by dehumanizing a people with the following quotes?: Plague reached terrible dimensions horrible disease terrible treachery sticking their claws trying to dictate our lifestyle spreading fear This man is in the land spreading an evil we all know and have learned to fear.
51. I Agree, Stop ALL religious movements in State Religious Iss
B'galil ,   Shorashim, Israel   (08.14.10)
For a supposedly "wise" sage, he just doesn't get it and never will. Israelis do not need to have any religious involvement - at least from just one group) in State issues. When it does, it can create a committee of leaders from all the major streams of Judaism. If Amar want to stay out, kol hakavod. This is an issue of civil rights, not religion. Israelis deserve to have freedom of religion just as Americans, French, Brits, etc... do. G-d willing, we will have this someday and religious fascists like Amar can go drink Koolaid with their followers.
52. 46 john . If someone TRULY wants
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (08.14.10)
he can live a Jewish life in many towns worldwide , not only in the 4 you mention . Not always easy ? but possible . And , are there many Jews living in faraway places , isolated from any Jewish life ?
53. Thats rich coming from him
Avi ,   Israel   (08.15.10)
What a load of nonsense, if anyone is dictating to others its the corrupt orthadox , ripping people off from birth to death. Seperate state and religion now.
54. Freedom from religion
Free Thinker ,   Tel Aviv   (08.15.10)
All I want in life is freedom from everyone elses religion. I am a progressive and rational human being who does nice things and helps others not because I'm afraid I'm going to burn in hell but because I am a human being who has empathy for the plight of others. I do not judge and slander others because I feel that a religious belief gives me the moral high ground, rather I debate issues rationally before making a judgment. Finally I do not feel the urge to post thinly veiled threats to kill someone simply because they have an opposing view to mine on the internet. This is because I am an enlightened and decent human being who does not feel the need to shore up my life with medieval religious dogma that has no true compassion or respect for humanity. How many more people will be murdered , executed in the name of religion?
55. Don't let him control your mind
Shlomi   (08.15.10)
56. Wake up Jews!!!!!
D.Kabas ,   Toronto, Canada   (08.16.10)
Rabbi Amar is not giving his opinion. He is warning us of what will befall the jews if we continue on this path of division and assimilation .He is on Hashems side.We were given one Torah period we are commanded to observe its laws.Orthodox judaism is the only judaism. Follow the footsteps of our forefathers to bring Mashiach speedily in our days.
57. Do people think that reform and conservative
Charles ,   Petach Tiklva   (08.16.10)
movements have accelerated assimilation ? With or without those movements , assimilation exist and spreads more and more . Here at least , in our Homeland , non orthodox Jews will most likely remain Jewish . Our life is in touch with Judaism , we live mostly amongdt Jews , have the rest days at Shabbat , feasts . Only problem for many seculars is the marriage , Some extreme anti Rabbanut go to Cyprus , or live together without any "permission" of a Rabbi .
58. irrelevancy is a form of decadence
silvio   (08.16.10)
mr.amar; your irrelevant comments, your grotesque accoutrement, your uncontrollable use of 'spirit', is what is dividing this country. With many of your kind in our midst, we would still be living under the arab yoke. Pure and holy nation?; was it ever?. Do some digging and you will discover that the " golden calf ", rabbis with ' claws' , were revolts against those who wanted to impose , dictate their beliefs on a reluctant population. Liberals, reformists, and others, are not cooped up all day in a heder, or burn trash if you disagree with them, or beat up those who resist segregation, or brake store windows. but your men in black (a funeral procession daily?) use their manicured 'claws' ( no work) to grab joyously handouts from same govt you are trying to dominate, the one who protects you, who feeds you.One simple solution. Why don't you emulate the monks in their temple, far away in the Himalayas --- simple life, solitaire, humble, praying all day, living off handouts, TV, radio, phone, magazines OUT; Scriptures, holiness, paradise IN. We will deal with the arabs and other pagans and preserve your Zion
59. #11 Israel is already another Iran
David   (08.17.10)
You just haven't seen the modesty squads and brainwashing forces at work because they use more technology here. They are no different than Hamas in their approach to controlling the native peoples free will as well as new immigrants. These secret groups will also drive out the type of people you mention through any means. Scientology has nothing over Israel
60. It´s up to us
Dan ,   weedonia   (01.14.11)
only exists the moshaic religion, jews are only the sephardic, the rest are israelis (CUZAR empire converted´s=ashkeneazies), so the good rabbi amar put the finger on the wound but he has the right to do it, he is our jew rabbi, not the converted one, and he spoke whit true, the non-ortodox are not jews. shalom
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