Jewish Scene
Reform Movement asks Peres to intervene against Amar
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 16.08.10, 07:54
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1. Does he ever wash that dirty beard mister amar the rabbi?
Cre ,   US   (08.16.10)
2. unfortunately
ed   (08.16.10)
it has been this way of ours to turn away from the Torah and not listen to Torah leaders. If these movements would seriously study Jeremiah and feel a real Tisha b'Av perhaps they would grasp what the Rabbaim have always said including Moshe Rabeinnu.
3. unifying?
david cohen ,   china   (08.16.10)
going back to the eternal quetsion: is a jew a Jew without the Torah? there is nothing to unify. u cant unify a Torah believer with arrogant people that substitute their intellect to that of God. Cre, US #1 -afraid to show his name- it looks to me that his beard is cleaner that your mouth. you are probably married to a goy that you converted in 5 minutes for the purpose of ---- jewish meat
4. The whole lot is lost on Rabbinic Judaism - it is not Torah
Josh   (08.16.10)
Do the reform think they can stop a man they helped promote to unqestionable status over the Torah? For centuries Jews no matter how secular have been giving the drivers seat to the Rabbis and the roads we traveled on had the most outrageous cursed wars and death we have ever seen. Maybe we should engage our minds and reanalize this agreement to repeat what we know leads to curses of division and more. Only one book is written in foirst person and thus only one past the test of being from a prophet. Start at square one and THINK. Explanations are only needed for the parts of Torah that are not clear. So what is all this addition? Chet.
5. reform asks peres
moron ,   galut   (08.16.10)
peres himself is not very observant -rabbi amar is right about reform but all rabbis must find other ways to encourage jewish unity,not just denouncing reform
6. Reform already ruined Germany
Yehoshua ,   Tzfat, Israel   (08.16.10)
B"H The Reform Movement ruined and killed already most Jews in Germany and other parts in Europe. Then they went on to the USA and Canada. Over 2.5 Million Jews lost . (Intermarriage Rate over 50%). Lately they killed a Jew by marrying him to Bill Clinton's daughter. Now they are after the Jews in Israel. Stand strong against the Evil One who burries the Torah and kills Jews!
7. Reform put itself beyond the pale, on purpose !
Yisrael ,   Jerusalem, ISRAEL   (08.16.10)
With a major belief in Tikkun Olam, little belief in God, no belief in Halacha, and a complete overturning of the 3000 year tradition of who is a Jew, let alone presiding at othersex and intermarriage weddings, the Reform have no one but themselves to blame when they are singled out for criticism. They have twisted the Torah to mirror themselves, not the other way around, which is how it is supposed to be. In this, they have many similarities to the haredim. Ironic, is it not ? Stop whining, and admit you are like the Samaritans, similar to, but not exactly normative Jews. How can there be Jewish unity, if such a large group does not agree on the fundamentals of Jewish life ? Give it up !
8. Lack of wisdom!
Ram ,   London   (08.16.10)
Chief Rabbi Amar has done his duty, according to Halacha, by making the statement. That is how a true leader must behave, as did many of his predecessors, who ensured the continuity of true Judaism, The reformists have watered away the meaning of Judaism and so far lost a substantial number of their followers to intermarriage and customs contrary to the essence of Judaism. In my opinion their complaint is unwise and in this situation "silence is wisdom".
9. Mr. Peres Sir
Sagi   (08.16.10)
Your buddy Amar is a disgusting excuse not only for a Jew but also as a human being.
10. I long for the day
Sagi   (08.16.10)
when the Reform and Conservative Movements will found a political party that will represent the vast majority of sane people in this counrty and gain a rightful place in Government that will release us from the stranglehold that these bearded wonders have over us.
11. Urgent letter?
Israeli 2   (08.16.10)
Why? They are afraid? The rabbi is right. You cannot have it both ways. Or you are Jewish or you are not.
12. A yell for help from a rapidly dieing movement!
shadoil ,   Jerusalem   (08.16.10)
13. # 11 OK then
Sagi   (08.16.10)
I am not Jewish, if that's the way you want it. I was born of Jewish parents who were in turn born of Jewish parents. I have lived all my life in Israel, have fought in three wars, have given birth to four children in Israel who in turn have given birth to 12 children in Israel but in your eyes I am not Jewish. That is fine by me. What's your story. You walk around all day with your nose buried in a "holy" book and live a useless life, you think that makes you Jewish. I am happy to be called not Jewish by the likes of you. I am indeed not Jewish, by my own definition. I AM ISRAELI.
14. The same ol', the same ol'
Harry ,   Jerusalem   (08.16.10)
"unifies, not divides, that draws close, not incites, that is tolerant, and not inflammatory ahead of the new year". The oldest trick in the books. The reform are relying on ones conscience. Harav HaGaon Amar, Shelita, has every RIGHT to attack those who wish to further this Spiritual Holocaust. WE, Jews have survived thousands of years, because of our observance to the Torah. Your parents were Observant Jews. Don't give me those crocodile tears, that I am offending you, but not wanting to except your water-down mockery of Judaism.
15. #13
Harry ,   Jerusalem   (08.16.10)
Sagi, Sagi, chill dude. Let us get something clear. No one is attacking you. If you were born by a Jewish mother, you are Jewish. How you act is another issue. The issue at hand is the Reform, besides living like gentiles, they want to make non-Jews into Jews. That is the issue here. You spewing dislike for the Religion or to our Rabbis, better keep to yourself. Wishing you a Happy New Year. By the way, I also served in the Army, and my third son is currently serving in the Air Force. What was your point????
16. No. 14 Same old Same old
Ussishkin ,   Tel Aviv Israel   (08.16.10)
It's not even the bleat of a stream of Judaism, once respected, now devalued, that I object to. It is the idea that because other Jews have another tradition, you can so crudely deny them. This is true red-neck bigotry. And what's worse is that the man you so venerate does not deserve the titles you laud. He and his messsenger Yishai are responsible not just for devaluing a once proud Sephardi tradition, but in their reactionary behaviour have forgotten the past, when they were an oppressed minority, and have ignored the MITZVOT and the most repeated exhortation 'to care for the stranger amongst you'. They and you bring shame on us all.
17. Lies and violence
Sally ,   USA   (08.16.10)
The letter from the "Progressive" movement only shows their intentions of demeaning the Chief rabbi and to work hard -with the help of their millions of $ - to introduce one of them! By not pointing out the Rabbi's willingness for inclusion of these groups in the Israeli society as mentioned in his letter to them and the approach of Rabbi Amar who calling them "Our brothers" and inviting them to come to Israel, etc.., they take advantage of the fact that those readers that did not read the Rabbi's letter remain thus misinformed. RABBI AMAR SPEAKS WORDS OF TORAH AND WORDS OF TRUTH. Conversely, these representatives of false philosophies are victims of their own deviousness and political correctness. THE TORAH SHALL PREVAIL .
18. 6#, Yehoshua, Is the Reform movement bad in Israel?
Judah ,   Golan Heights,ISRAEL   (08.16.10)
As an ex-Canadian Jew I saw first hand the harmful effects of the Reform movement. In the small town I lived in in Canada there was two synagogues. The Orthodox synagogue is still thriving after 100 years yet the Reform synagogue that began in the 1970's closed its doors last year. The children of the reform synagogue founders intermarried and assimilated away after just one generation. YET in Israel I do see a future for reform and Masorti congregations. Even though I consider myself to be modern orthodox(or religious Zionist) I still would rather that the secular Israeli Jews who currently never step foot in a synagogue become members of a reform or Masorti synagogue and at least have some Jewish affilation. Unlike in Canada most will not intermarry because most Israelis(except for the Arabs) are Jews. Recently a medical colleague of mine invited me to a Friday night service at a reform synagogue in the North. I was actually pleasently suprised. Except for the men and women sitting together everything else including all the Shabbat prayers were the same. I was very happy to see all of the Russian immigrants and secular Israelis singing along.
19. Jewish status not for sale Pres. Perez and USA P&R
martin ,   jhb SA   (08.16.10)
Rabbi S Amar & Pres Peres.Ethiopians unfortunate have a status problem as they were not in sync with the halachick definition of a Jew. Reform & progressive are making the same choice. The Torah dictates are managed by experts in the field. They are equipped to interpret the dividing line between people with the included in the halachick definition of a Jew and those not. If a Rabbi chose to ignore the fine requirements he would deceive and mislead people as they would not be considered Jews. Ha Kodesh Boruch"hu himself would decide and include or not include a person even after a process of conversion whether one month one year or three or five. If this group of american feel uncomfortable it will not help if Pres Peres or any other person intervened. The outcome is the same. The rules dont change. The soul is or is not converted into Klal Yisroel We are not allowed to ignore these dictates. Thats it. The USA lobby should rather say What do I need to do to ensure my congregants are Jewish. They then need to submit for there own good. Any person incorrectly converted has the right to sue the congregation for deceit and miss-representation. These people in the USA must realise Jewish status is NOT FOR SALE it is earned by total emersion doing the will of HKB"Hu. Leave our learned Rabbis alone or better co-operate with them for your own good. They only doing their job or calling. They deserve your respect. That means Prog- reform of the USA or elsewhere and any government official whether he hold a high office or not. Remember clear the rule from Sanai "Lo sasuru y’min u shmol" do not veer left or right from the teachings ( Moshe Rabeinu/ Rabbonon). To ignore is considered a Torah infringement and has spiritual consequences. The consequences are interpreted by our Holy dedicated and revered Rabbonon. Any individual Rabbi whom chooses to veer away damages others and himself. If u need further explanation call your local orthodox constituted Beth Din. If they say something you dont like, its because their hands are tied. The Rabbis are not there to please you rather they r there to guide and help you. Laws required r for the protection of Holy nation. Try to find your way to Holiness its worth it.
20. #13: Why do you so fiercely yet so easily
Israeli 2   (08.16.10)
disavow your Jewish birth right as if it means nothing to you? I salute you for your contribution to Israel. You are obviously an ISRAELI...no doubt....There are many gentiles who fought and will fight fiercely for Israel as well...but being Jewish also allows you to sing your national anthem "Nefesh Yehudi" with pride....and it makes no difference if you are married to a gentile or love gentiles..BUT the TORAH may not and cannot be altered....so...that's all that we are saying here.
21. #16
Harry ,   Jerusalem   (08.16.10)
A shame for what? You claim that Reform is another Tradition. Blatant mockery to true Torah observance!! Besides, your Talkback, doesn't address the burning issue. People are people, and even if a religious Jew does wrong, that person needs to correct himself, but that doesn't mean you can trash the religion, because of his behavior. Like I said, No crocodile tears here, for your poor attempt to use psychology, to evoke sympathy. Happy New Year to You.
22. #18, Judah
Yehoshua ,   Tzfat   (08.16.10)
B"H I went to Ulpan in Karmiel and there were 3 or 4 female immigrant participants who were married to Jewish Men but were not Jewish and had no intention of converting. Intermarriage is well alive in Israel and Reform does everything to support it. Reform does not care about Halacha, they pick what they like. I am sure your Shabbat experience was very nice in that Shul, but make no mistake, when it comes to intermarriage, Reform is all go. Rather have the secular stay at home, than learn a wrong and distorted view of what a Jew is. And I am not happy when I see those non- jewish immigrants sitting and singing along with secular Jews knowing that they killed their jewish hsubands!
23. 10. How will that happen Sagi?
S Judah ,   Jerusalem   (08.16.10)
The Mizrahim/Sephardim don't believe in reform, they mostly all follow Rav Ovadia and Rav Amar irrespective of theire personal level of observance. The Haradim and Hasadim don't follow reform. Observant Askenazim don't follow reform. The majority of Ashkenazim who are not observant still expect their Rabbis to be men, to keep Kashrut, not to drive on Shabbat, and that Jews are defined by their maternal side. And they want their Rabbis to have beards as well and know that the Torah is the word of G-D Now where are we going to find such peopel in Israel? And if we do, Heaven help us we are all lost. Please don't make a joke of our Religion, just because you don't believe don't expect the rest of us to join a pop group.
24. To #13
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (08.16.10)
This may not mean much coming from me, who doesn't believe in any religion and doesn't put much stock in the accident of one's birth, but your I AM ISRAELI makes me want to salute you. It's that attitude that will insure Israel's survival, not who prays the loudest in which synagogue. If it weren't for Jews like you, who consider themselves, first and foremost, Israelis, all those, who think of themselves as so much holier than everybody else, may not have any synagogues left in which to pray; at least, not in Israel. Too bad that many don't seem to realize it. My background is a mix of you name it. I'd make one lousy Jew, Christian, or whatever, BUT I'm one hell of a patriotic American and so are my kids and their kids, despite the fact that their religious beliefs run the gamut from the sublime to the ridiculous. They know that there are times for "God bless America," times for "Praise the Lord and pass the Ammunition" and that one doesn't take away from the other. Again, you have my admiration.
25. progressive (?) judaism's unhappiness
Bear ,   zefat, israel   (08.16.10)
If the writer of this article against Rabbi Amar spent as much time learning our holy Torah as he did in using a bunch of fancy adjectives to make his point, he'd better understand Rabbi Amar, but then he might not make as much money as he does now!
26. To everyone telling people to go and learn torah..
Nic ,   uk   (08.16.10)
and then dismissing the idea of identifying Jewish status based on anything other than by the maternal line, go back and learn again. Nowhere in the Torah does it state that this should be the case, identifying a persons status my maternal descent was imposed by rabbis (who are human and fallible) in a time before genetic testing when the only parent they were able to verify with cloarity was the mother who popped it out. We all interpret the same works, we're all different hence we all have different interpretations, what makes the opions of the black hat brigade any more valid? Also how is sticking to an outmoded european style of dress Jewish at all? And so on...
27. NR 13 SAGI YOU ARE SO RIGHT!
DAVID ,   JUDEA   (08.16.10)
Your constant TB's full of hatred towards religion, proves you are an outstanding Israeli, properly brainwashed by the Zionist doctrine. You being an proud self loathing Israeli is the main reason why the world hates us. Living here as a Jew in the land of Israel, I can honestly say, that in general Israelis deserve to be disliked. Besides that the 3 wars you fought in, were due mostly because of your failed new Israeli identity and its lack of understanding of living here. I do not sit with my face in holy books all day, but I am reclaiming our Land, one tree at the time,because it is a Mitsvah dereita to posses our land . The Reform movement and post Zionist like yourself, will end up in the historic dustbin, while Torah connecect Jews will go on as they have for the past 3000 years. So all your anger and hatred are just a waste of time and will not postpone the demise off the new Israeli and the lost Reform movement, meanwhile while you like or not your are fulfilling the most important Mitsvah of the Torah by living here in the land of Israel, even your Reform buddies do not even do that.
28. # 24 M. Hartley
Sagi   (08.16.10)
Thank you for understanding me. It helps, even if you are the only one. You always manage to give me a good laugh or at least a chuckle , so I hereby return the compliment.
29. # 27 David
Sagi   (08.16.10)
First of all, I have no reform buddies. Second of all I have no hatred for religion, just contempt. I am a serial ridiculer of religion simply because I am an atheist, a very confirmed one. This goes for all religions and denominations around the globe and not just for Judaism. I am a Jew and learning and reading "holy books" did not nor does it in anyway contribute to this fact. Religion is the greatest folly of Man and without question the greatest contributor to human suffering, this from time immemorial.
30. If Reformies want to be considered legitimate, then
Steve ,   NYC   (08.16.10)
If Reformies want to be considered legitimate, then let them stop behaving illegitimately. Stop with the gay marriage nonsense and stop with the "Judaism as Political Leftism" idiocy!
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