It sounds like you are a father. I don't know how any parent who has experienced their child's birth can still be an atheist. When I had my first baby, my doctor, who was a Conservative Jew, came to visit me the next day. He said, "Its a miracle." I have always believed in G-d, but his words made an impression. How from nothing, a breathing, thinking person is brought into the world. Only the Creator could do that. Many religious Jews, including heredim fought in the war for independence. I dont like to hear some Israelis say, "Hashem yishmor," and not do anything to help themselves in difficult situations. That's why G-d gave us brains, so we can figure out how to help ourselves.

A birth a miracle ? I have assisted to the birth of my children , no miracle at all . It's a natural process , no god involved [ how could a non existing god be involved ? ] A friend of me , a palmachnik , fought his way to bring food and water to assieged Jerusalem . When arriving there , those you said participated in the war , did'nt allow those Palmachnikim to enter the "holy" town . It was Shabbat . Nice participation indeed . The country was build and founded mostly by seculars . I know , my town was founded by religious ones . But nothing exept some names remain of their foundation .

Beautiful and inspiring posts, but it doesn't seem like Charles is ready to absorb the depth of the Tora path. In its due time every Jew shall strengthen their connection to the Creator. That's also the Creator's will, there's no other way. That's what the Jewish sages hold. As a believer you know that EVERYTHING is determined by the Hochmah Haelionah (Juda Ha Levi). In Exodus we read: The LORD said to him, "Who gave man his mouth? Who makes him deaf or mute? Who gives him sight or makes him blind? Is it not I, the LORD? We should use our "hands" to build and "mind" to think, but ultimately even the outcome is G.d's will. Happy Sukkot, everyone, cultural Jews and religious Jews! And Charles, the only reason why it's sad you keep talking about "dark ages" is because as an "enlightened" person, you should know what some basic secular Philosophy affirms: there are always two sides to one coin. You cannot live your life thinking that you and only you hold the TRUTH and everybody else is wrong or lives in the dark ages. That's what I call the modern Israeli "secular" dictatorship. And by the way, if you want to talk about history only, then Jews could claim Spain, Portugal, parts of Russia, Rome, Greece, Iraq, etc. Just because a group of people have been in one land historically, that doesn't give them ownership over it.

Can you give me the names of the Jewish kingdoms in those countries you cite ? Again , for me the Torah is only our HISTORY , nothing more . Believing in things contrary to reality , is living in the dark middle ages . Believing that it was thanks to a god that we won our wars , the same . To Susan , how can you believe in a god who was'nt there when "his" people needed "him" ? Why not miracles then , as you called a birth ? Only deaths have we seen then , with some lucky people who could escape . But nothing of a divine intervention . So continue to believe in this inexisting thing you call god , and continue to live in the dark middle ages .

The only ones I know about is the Khazars in Russia. Also, in the Middle Ages the Jews had a powerful kingdom in Ethiopia. But those are not our ancestrial homelands.

You are right , Historical we have ONLY one Homeland :HERE . The Khazars were converts , and for some , mostly asntisemites , the Aschkenazi Jews descent from them . But there is , as far as known to me , no scientific proof of it .