Who are the Palestinians?
Moshe Dann
Published: 13.09.10, 18:50
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
129 Talkbacks for this article
1. They're very much like the Afrikaners
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (09.13.10)
Over the past 2000 years the Palestinians trekked into Israel from all around. More so in the past 200 years, and like the Boers the Pals have invented a culture around themselves.
2. "palestinian" names:
ilan ,   israel   (09.13.10)
"palestinian" names: The family names of Arabs who occupy judea reveal their country of origin: Masri (from Egypt-Hamas member of Parliament, Mushir al-Masri ), Iraqi (from Iraq), Tarabulsi (Tarabulus-Tripoli, Lebanon), Hourani (Houran Syria), Husseini (Jordan), Saudi (Saudi Arabia),Metzarwah(egypt),Barda­­­­­­­­­­­wil(salah bardawil HAMAS legislator,egypt Bardawil lake aria),Nashashibi(syria). Bushnak(bosnia),al-Husayni(Sau­­­­­di Arabia),zoabi("Haneen Zoabi"-iraq),Turki(turky "Daud Turki") Even "Arafat", the most famous fakestinian and leader of the P.L.O, is not native to judea. He called himself a "Palestinian refugee" but spoke Arabic with Egyptian dialect. He was born in 1929 Cairo, Egypt. He served in the Egyptian army, studied in the University of Cairo, and lived in Cairo until 1956 ! Arafat's full name was Mohammed Abdel Rahman Abdel Raouf Arafat al-Qudwa al-Husseini. "Al-Qudwa" tribe origin?
3. At last, someone who isn't blind
Nigel ,   Israel   (09.13.10)
Do an Internet search on 'Hadrian's Curse' or, if you like shortcuts: http://www.jewishdirectory.com/article/hadrians-curse.html It's an eye-opener!
4. Four points about this EXCELLENT article:
Jehudah Ben-Israel ,   Qatzrin, Israel   (09.13.10)
1) Between 1948 and 1967 the entire territory now demanded for a "Palestinian state" was Jew-free, "cleansed" of its previous Jewish residents. Yet, the Arab rulers didn't set up a "Palestinian state" there with Jerusalem as its capital city. 2) The Palestine (not Palestinian!!!) Liberation Organization (PLO) was set up in 1964. If it was an organization meant to "liberate" the "Palestinian people", why call it "Palestine" and not "Palestinian". 3) The PLO was set up three years BEFORE the Six-Day War of 1967, but not by the "Palestinians" but rather by the Arab League of States as its arm. The PLO now "negotiate" peace with Israel..... 4) United Nations Security Council Resolution 242, the one designed to resolve the Arab Israeli conflict back in 1967 makes no reference to the existence of a "Palestinian people" nor does it call for the setting up of an additional state in the region, a "Palestinian state".
5. Even the PLO says there's no Palestine or Palestinians!
Ray ,   Denver, CO   (09.13.10)
"The Palestinian people does not exist. The creation of a Palestinian state is only a means for continuing our struggle against the state of Israel for our Arab unity. In reality today there is no difference between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. Only for political and tactical reasons do we speak today about the existence of a Palestinian people, since Arab national interests demand that we posit the existence of a distinct Palestinian people to oppose Zionism... "For tactical reasons, Jordan, which is a sovereign state with defined borders, cannot raise claims to Haifa and Jaffa, while as a Palestinian, I can undoubtedly demand Haifa, Jaffa, Beer-Sheva and Jerusalem. However, the moment we reclaim our right to all of Palestine, we will not wait even a minute to unite Palestine and Jordan." Zuheir Mohsen, leader of the PLO terrorist organization.
6. Wow.
Yoni   (09.13.10)
An entire article this articulate, based on nothing more than an equivocal misunderstanding of what a national identity is. Of course 'Palestinianism' is political construct -- national identities *are* political constructs almost by definition.
7. "Who are the Palestinians?"
Harry ,   Jerusalem   (09.13.10)
Now you are asking that question? Were you born yesterday? Everybody knows the TRUTH except those blinded fools who run this country. The question you should be askIng is , "WHY HAS THE STATE OF ISRAEL BEEN PROMOTING THIS LIE. When arabs left in 1948 or in 1967, why did Dayan coo them back??? How many Jewish people have died or G-d forbid die for their foolishness. The Land of Israel is the sole Homeland for the JEWS. If there are Israelis who have a problem with that, I invite them to leave.
8. People are going to EXPLODE with anger after this one, heh
The Dude   (09.13.10)
9. An excellent example of coexistence.
Terry ,   Eilat - Israel   (09.13.10)
Many may think that peaceful coexistence is not realistic. Here is a link to an article which is a fine example of coexistence between Hindus & Muslims. http://pajamasmedia.com/phyllischesler/ We should all take this fine example to heart as we contemplate the prospects for peace.
10. Brilliant article!
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (09.13.10)
Kudos to you, Mr. Dann, for your excellent -- not to mention flawlessly accurate -- commentary. You have dispelled most efficiently and unequivocally the myth that "Palestinians" want peace. Thank you. Your editorial could not have come at a more opportune time!
11. There was no single Palestinian authority prior to 1964
Joseph Farah   (09.13.10)
Palestine has never existed...as an autonomous entity. There is no language known as Palestinian. There is no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a land known as Palestine governed by Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc. Keep in mind that the Arabs control 99.9 percent of the Middle East lands. Israel represents one-tenth of one percent of the landmass. But that's too much for the Arabs. They want it all. And that is ultimately what the fighting in Israel is about today...No matter how many land concessions the Israelis make, it will never be enough.
12. this article is why the whole process is crazy
dani   (09.13.10)
palestinians are arabs. palestine has never existed. jordan is a creation of fiction. the person with the most to lose if a palestinian state is created is king hussein...because the palestinians will not hesitate to start agitating for a union of the two fake states under their control. this is why hussein married a palestinian -- so that his son will be safer with being 'half' palestinian. or fully arab? who knows. but one thing is for sure, the easiest way to give king hussein diarrhea is promise him that the future palestinian state will share a border with jordan.
13. #9 not a good comparison
chris ,   wales   (09.13.10)
Your comparing Apples and oranges.But in this case it is Wheat and tears.. Israel has no problem with arabs and you know this living in Eilat,BE REAL Ye? The problem is The Arabs cannot Abide to living among Jews,EVEN MANY OF THE Israeli Arabs moan and Groan And they Still don't appreciate the freedom they Enjoy being part of Israel. Muslims will never Accept Jews being in charge of their Lives,as they see it.This is against their Koran. Israel is not India,and the example you gave is a poor example to use because India is not the tiny nation Surrounded by the majority muslims as Israel is.and India is not on Islam's List of Major goal or Aims. Israel Is Top of their List! Israel has Jerusalem India doesn't have any thing like Jerusalem to´centre their Crusade. Of Course,Islam has no real Historic or political,or even RELIGIOUS Claims for Jerusalem while Jerusalem is mentioned 800 times throughout the Bible.But still,JERUSALEM Has become the centre of their Attention. READ Zech 12 for the Explanation!
14. #8 because the Truth Hurt!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
hannah ,   sweden   (09.13.10)
chris ,   wales   (09.13.10)
There is no thing as a PALESTINIAN People! never was a PALESTINIAN State. Never was an Arab State in this Area ever. The Palestinians are Simply ARABS,Some of them are Turks who settled there during the Ottaman Empire.Some are from Egypt,the rest are the same people who live in today Jordan. before 1948, manyJews who lived in this Land called themselves "Palestinian" Jews..Begin for example refered to himself as Palestinian Jew long before arabs start calling for a state there called "Palestine" Roman Emperor Hadrian applied the term Palestine to the Land of Israel as an Insult Mainly to Jews. It was not until the Romans crushed the second Jewish revolt against Rome in 135 A.D. under Bar Kochba that Emperor Hadrian applied the term Palestine to the Land of Israel. "Bible-believing Christians have either knowingly or unwittingly followed the world, pagans and haters of Israel in calling Israel by the anti-Israel term Palestine." the Arabs came up with a masterful Trick in the 60's when they started to place Emphasis on the Word "palestine"or palestinians" and the whole World started to use this Term when refering to the arabs living there Ignoring the fact that the Word "Palestine" Never Identified one group specifically,But was in fact used only as a term for a land,but this was actually a REPLACEMENT Of names,Should have been CALLED Israel as it was in the New Testament and old testament times..Whatever,God,including Jesus saw this land as God's land and was to be known as Israel Forever! So the Arabs are actually fighting Against What God has written in His Holy Book the Bible,and after The Battle of Armageddon, Rev 16:16,This place will be CALLED ISRAEL Forever! The Book of Joel, Zech,Jeremaih 30&31 Will show anyone who questions the Current and the future Geopolitics of this Area. it is where the Messiah of Israel will rule over Ezek 40-48 Sorry for mentioning the prophecies of the Bible but without prophecies Israel would not even Exist.and the fact is, it is the prophecies written throughout the Bible which Define the future of this Area.Not just the past,But Future!
16. To: Ilan at No. 2
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (09.13.10)
Nice analysis. Thank you.
17. To: The Dude at No. 8
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (09.13.10)
Or they will simply stay away because they cannot dispute the article's factual recitation or dispel the author's superb analysis. Mr. Dann has cleverly turned any counter-arguments into mincemeat before they could even be articulated! (Which makes for a refreshing change!)
18. "Palestine" is a fictional land like Oz and Atlantis.
Chaim ,   Israel   (09.13.10)
"Palestine' was never anything but a geographical term like "Eurasia". There never was a nation called "Palestine". Nor were there ever "Palestinian" people. This article is 100% correct. "Palestine" is a fictional land like Oz and Atlantis. The concept of "Palestinian" people was constructed to justify repeated Arab attempts to destroy Israel by claiming our land in the name of a fictious people. Israel must stop paying tribute to this dangerous fiction.
nab ,   raz   (09.13.10)
It is not true, according to facts it is not correct at all what you are trying to say, check back more books and then you will find all the other sources you do not know. Palestinians have been long long ago, thye were not created yesterday....
20. jews
bibi1 ,   USA   (09.13.10)
Has Israel been a nation for the last 5 thousand years? answer is no. not even now, since it has no boarders or constitution. or anything. it is an extension of a terrotory of the united states just like guam . it is cheaper than an airplane carrier. now think of this we wiil always be there, but you no. you are not from there speak differnat language, looks differnat. It just time my friend, and we have that. you do not. Shaloom
21. Even their flag is from another region
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (09.13.10)
The "Palestinian" national flag is actually the flag of the "Hejaz" which is currently occupied by Saudi Arabia
22. Let me offer a few additional points
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, DC USA   (09.13.10)
First, ilan notes the "homelands" implicit in many Palestinian names. (I could add al'Libi (Libyan), Shams and Halabi (Syrian)) A huge portion of today's "Palestinian" population in fact descend from those who immigrated into Mandate Palestine, when Jewish immigration was restricted but Arab immigration was not. Second, as Efraim Karsh points out in his recent "Palestine Betrayed", had Israel been still-born in 1948, an independent Arab Palestine would NOT have emerged. Rather, Syria, Jordan and Egypt would have carved up the carcass. Third, had Israel's Arab neighbors really cared about their "Palestinian brothers", they would have created a Palestine out of Gaza and the West Bank when they were in control. Clearly, they had other plans. Finally, in response to Yoni's snarky "Of course 'Palestinianism' is a political construct", he misses the distinction between identities artificially constructed for political purpose and those that have a historic and socio-political basis, like the Kurds.
23. True but one sided in your point of view
Bloodyscot ,   Dallas, Texas   (09.13.10)
The British Mandate did state Jewish right of return but also state that there be no limiting right of people already living there. When Israel was created it agreed to honor all Ottoman/British land titles but refugees lands became state lands, whether Muslim or Christian, while Jewish land owners who lived out of country kept their lands. You seem to be saying one state is only solution if Palestinians are not a people but UNRWA has stated the refugees right of return, which you view as the problem and not an option to their resolution. The British Mandate called for one state solution for all, while UN 181 calls for 2 state solution with Jews have majority in one.
24. Who are the Jweish people
Who are the Jewish ? ,   East Jerusalem   (09.13.10)
The Jewish people didn't exist as a political entity before 1948, as far as David and Suleiman’s time, they ruled a tribe, their political control didn't exceed a city boundary, hardly can be called a viable state like the Roman or Islamic empire. There was never before a state called Israel. The question isn't a legitimacy issue, but rather a control and power issue. The Jewish people, given good timing and right conditions and the support of the new world powers, managed to creat a political entity based on military power only. Should conditions change in the future; this political entity will go away. That doesn’t mean Muslims are morally better or worst than Jews, these are just simple fact and history. As far as who God prefers, each can claim what ever; God Chosen people were scattered and humiliated all over the world for over 2000 years. The same; Islam's great empire dispended and became a target for occupying powers from France, Britain and others. So no one has a hold on God and morality. Power is everything. If it wasn’t for Military power, the State of Israeli will not be alive today and no one can guarantee this military power including "God's chosen people"
25. What's in a name,
Cynic #2   (09.13.10)
that what we call a rose by any other name smells as sweet. The name does not matter, these people have been inhabiting this land since time immemorial. There were also many waves of immigration to this land. Denying the existence of these people is pure bigotry. The way things are going, they will become Israeli citizens. For more info, check Shlomo Sands' recent book, it is very enlightening indeed!
26. The heart of the problem
vitenberg ,   FRANCE   (09.13.10)
Bravo! That's the heart of the problem.The responsability of UNO, Europe and the Vatican is obvious since 1948. They didn't want a jewish state with jerusalem as capital but reserves for the survivors of holocaust, as there are indian reserves... Now the evangelists think otherwise ...This historical panorama of Moshe Dann is remarkable!
27. Nation = Long & Common Ancestral History
Daniel ,   Jerusalem   (09.13.10)
I forget which philosopher said that a nation's primary characteristic is a common ancestral history stretching so far back that no one remembers how it started. That hardly applies to the Palestinians. Even today it's not clear that they are a nation as the PLO charter calls defines the Palestinian people as part of the Arab nation.
28. Look
emc   (09.13.10)
you either give the Palestinian Arabs their own state or you abolish the apartheid policy and make them full citizens of Israel with rights of an ethnic minority. Your speculation as to the validity of Palestinian national identity is irrelevant.
29. Excellent article discussing the idea of
Robert Haymond ,   Israel/Canada   (09.13.10)
Palestine and Palestinianism. The only additions I can contribute are with reference to culture and myth. It needs to be shown whether the ingredients of an identifiable culture exists amongst the people who refer to themselves as Palestinians. It requires more than the the poetry of Mohammed Darwish but he is one starting point. By "identifiable", I mean that it must be an aggregate of activities, events, behaviours and beliefs which differentiate Palestinians from the rest of the Arab world. As to myth, this is a term very comprehensible to the Jewish people. Our myths are made up of the aggregate of our narratives as related in the Torah beginning with Abraham as well as our oral histories as assembled in the Talmud. Beyond ancient times, our history includes myths and events spanning the centuries since the second destruction of the Temple and includes very different personnages including, but not limited to, Maimonides and Rabbi Lowe and the Golum right up through the beginning of Zionism, the Holocaust and the founding of the state of Israel. The only Palestinian event which may take on such mythical proportions is the Nakbah itself, the exile of 700-750,000 people. Is this myth (event) strong enough to provide a collective identity to a mass of people who call themselves Palestinians. I don't know.
30. Where is observor
Smith   (09.13.10)
You do not have good comment to share with us???
Next talkbacks
Back to article