Opinion
Warning against arrogance
Eitan Haber
Published: 19.09.10, 11:44
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24 Talkbacks for this article
1. Nothing was wrong with the military.
Terry ,   Eilat - Israel   (09.19.10)
But there was definitely something wrong with our political leadership, including at the highest echelons of the IDF. And, there still is. Preemption is always our best option.
2. What did you say Mr. Eitan Haber?
Israeli 2   (09.19.10)
"Yet 37 years are apparently enough time to raise a new generation of arrogant people."?????? Why arrogant? People want our demise. Why are the Israelis arrogant, sir? Do you resign yourself to enemy's submission? For your information I have seen the year 2018. Israel is mightier than ever.
3. A few years too late
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (09.19.10)
Haber's warning about arrogance is a few years too late. Rabin imported Arafat and gave him weapons because he said that IDF was strong. The 1000s of Jewish civilian deaths in the First Oslo War proved Rabin wrong. Barak betrayed the SLA and abandoned Lebanon because he said the IDF was strong. Israel's defeat in the Second Lebanon War and silence at last months murder of an officer proved Barak wrong. Sharon ethnically cleansed Gush Katif because he said the IDF was strong. Israel's defeat in Cast Lead and inability to stop the rocket attacks prove him wrong. The extreme-Left (including Haber) demand to establish a powerful Fatah state in Judea and Samaria is based on the fact that the IDF can defend Israel.
4. "army isn’t omnipotent"
Harry ,   Jerusalem   (09.19.10)
That is true under the current, on believing cult of Israelis. But when We ALL return to The Almighty, Our Father in Heaven, and live the way we are as Jews, Children of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, are suppose to, YES, THEN, WE WILL BE OMNIPOTENT. Chag Sameach Mr. Haber.
5. Blind arrogance is more serious!
Salma ,   Palestine   (09.19.10)
I wonder if the "Israelis" can make their own decision, the decision for peace or war, the West supports "Israel" for a particular job, Jews pay no attention to that, and they continue engaged large and small wars without ask themselves, what then? will our enemies keep on this form of weakness and humiliation forever?! How will be the next war?! Why should we be the spearhead against the Muslims?! For the sake of whom?! Do you like to live in constant fear of the future, or you would seriously consider other options such as peace, for example !! What is your "YOUR" choice ?!! Can you choose by yourself?!
6. iran
frenchman ,   paris france   (09.19.10)
sooner or later (but soon) iran will get its bomb is not worth trying to stop him, except for gather missiles and a regional war, i'm 90% sure that the USA will not use force against iran that is the substance of the study! israel may well show its muscles against a distant country more than 1000 km and 75 000 000 people israel does not weight for, your only option is deterrence nothing else
7. To Mr. Haber
Ricardo Macher ,   Karnei Shomron IL   (09.19.10)
For once I must admit that you are partially right. There is a generation that doesn't understand the Middle East and believe they are in Europe. Just that looking at the numbers, you see that most of those boys and girls who are afraid to serve in Tzahal and work against Israel, come from families of people like you. Tel Aviv where everything is OK, bur self sacrifice. The day you admit that you brought a generation with no guts and no love for the country I will respect you!
8. The next ME war
graczek ,   Maryland, USA   (09.19.10)
"Israel" almost lost in 1973 and would not be a problem today if not for US President Nixon's insane aid to that fiat state. It left Lebanon with its tail between its legs in 2000. It was whipped in Lebanon in 2006. The next war will see the Zionist demise with lots of casualties. But Israel can avoid all this by declaring a status quo ante 1948 and work for a peaceful transition to a legitimate Muslim-Christian State of Palestine. Choose life, not Zionism!
9. peace caused war. here is how
Golan ,   Modiin   (09.19.10)
The Yom Kippur war needs to be understood with the hindsight of the War of Attrition. After that war Israel managed to win a cease fire (win, scratch out, force, surrender to whatever you want to use.) And in that cease fire period the Egyptians moved their anti-Air missile defense systems to the vary banks of the Suez. Israel did nothing and paid for it dearly in 1973. Had we acted against those batteries we would have been in a better position on Oct 6th. Next, had Israel pulled back to the Mitla and Gidi pass before the war the gap between the Egyptian 2 and 3rd Army would not have been there for our forces to outmaneuver into Africa and cut the food and water and ammunition (lifeline) of the Egyptians forcing an end to the war. And war would still have happened because the Egyptians needed to clear their names after the 6 day war. Arrogance is thinking that we can take risks for "peace" Arrogance is expecting the army to be able to do anything anytime anywhere, such as dealing with SAMs and protecting Israel from Lebanon;s Hizbullah rocket attacks without being in Lebanon. Arrogance is thinking we are strong enough and the army can be weakened for social handouts. Arrogance is expecting democracy to remain in place while allowing deceit and outright lies about Israel emanate from Israeli universities. Arrogance is ignoring the threat of Israeli Arabs most of whom (but not all) are day dreaming and wetdreaming about its demise while Arab MK's and Communist Jewish ones act against the state. Arrogance in 1973 allowed the collapse of the Egyptian army because they thought Sharon's crossing was just TV drama, because their arrogance allowed them to charge out of the SAM umbrella. And yes, we won that war on two fronts against 5 armies. Had we not preempted in 1967, the October war would have taken place in 1967 in Tel Aviv and Haifa rather than in Sinai and the Golan.
10. #1 you are absolutely right!
Hertze Rahmani ,   Tveria   (09.19.10)
My breath froze at 2pm on yom kippur 37 years ago. I was 21 and my wife and I were taking a stroll down the slopes of Tiberias with our 6 Months old baby in the buggy, when we heard it. I knew right away this was it....I told my wife this is war, there was zero indication within the public of anything going on...nothing just a blue clear sky.... The leaders messed up big time. MOST ALL OF THEM, all those that refused to see, those that refused to listen to clear signs, and even did not listen to king hussien of jordan(!). WE ARE NOW WITH A FULLY POLITICIZED IDF, WITH A COS NOMINATED FOR POLITICAL REASONS, AND A MINISTER OF DIFFENSE WHE IS DEFF AND BLIND TO ANYONE ELSE'S..... CONCLUSION: IT IS HAPPENING ALL OVER AGAIN........ WAKE UP ISRAEL!!!!!!!!!!!!
11. #9 agree with you 100%
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (09.19.10)
and remember one thing: Until 1967, the Americans did not care about Israel. After 1967, the American saw an opportunity to steal the Egyptians away from the Soviets by sacrificing Israeli interests. The Americans convinced Israel not to respond to the Egyptian cease-fire violations. Their plan was that the Egyptians would be grateful for the Americans weakening Israel and giving them Sinai. As you can see, it worked.
12. The real arrogance
Frank ,   Canada   (09.19.10)
The arrogance of the Left was the cause of Israel problems in 1973. Israel was caugh off guard because the Left refused to preemptively strike Arab armies gathering near Sinai and in Syria. Because of this arrogance thousands died in 1973. The same Leftist arrogance killed more than 1000 Israelis with the Oslo peace scam
13. Response to graczec
David ,   toronto   (09.19.10)
You reek of antisemitism and are full of arrogant misinformatiom . Dont take comfort in Isreael's/"Zionist demise" potential .. You in Maryland are awefully close to Ground Zero and the new "Mosque ". you will be next target of the Islamists
14. More crap advice from the genius who gave them guns in 1994
tomer ,   herzeliya   (09.19.10)
Haber's Oslo was the biggest mistake ever.
15. haber's depression
alexi   (09.19.10)
haber is a good man, let me be clear. He was a press officer not a combat officer. he like olmert panics over casualties and cannot take it. haber, israel will have to fight more wars and bigger than 73 because it has to contend with guerilla army stocked with missiles and bunkered like the chinese, syria, hamas and PLo. And so it will to the last man. It will not sign a deal out of fright like olmert tried to do as that will not lead to peace. You need to go on antidepressant medication and take heart. Isreal will not repeat the nazi experienc3e. If the arabs try to take down israel, the whole arab world and iran are going down with it. Never again and yes to life to tuvia bielski and no to cowards or feint of heart beilin, ben ami, ramon, olmert, livni, haber and all of haaretz writers.
16. Israel-Iran : 200 to Nil, so don't panic
Morris ,   London, UK   (09.19.10)
...don't panic, Mr Haber. We would really be stupid to allow these Islamists to develop even one nuke, when all it takes is to bring these fuzzy wazzies back to the stone age.
17. Excellent talkbacks to a misleading article
Marcella   (09.19.10)
Thanks to all of you who take the time to set straight the leftist point of view and to provide relevant background. I just would like to add a couple of small points. 1) We need to read this column and its timing in context. Mr Haber's admonition that the country is better off surrendering its heartland rather than defending it fits quite well with the government's agenda. It also fits well with the many programs geared at weakening the IDF from within (new rules of engagement, political appointments at the top), and attempts at weakening the national will to fight and assert Jewish rights. The underlying message of the left is simply that you are too arrogant to understand your military weaknesses, so hurry up and surrender your heartland to the Arabs. Netanyahu, in tune with this leftist message, said recently that he believes most Israelis are in favor of Two States. In other words, that they'd rather surrender than fight. 2) So the question is: Will there be any ORGANIZED AND UNITED effort to correct PM Netanyahu's misperception and start a much needed discussion with your own government to stop partition? Simple hope that the Arabs themselves will unravel these talks is not enough. Israelis need to present their own plan based on their legal ownership of the land so that neither this government nor future ones will use your land and your lives as bargaining chips in the pursuit of a Peace Prize.
18. arrogance in the IDF
allan ,   canada   (09.19.10)
Perhaps Hashem is showing us that what he promised us is true. If we don't follow his Torah , we will lose the land, and all sorts of tragedies befall us. Maybe these past defeats are his warnings to us. When an elite unit of soldiers has trouble taking over just one ship, not even in wartime, against protestors armed with clubs, then perhaps we should take notice and realize that our strength does not come from ourselves and that we must rely on divine help. Israeli Jews also need to be more united for Hashem to help.
19. To #9 and #11
m   (09.20.10)
Please read Connor Cruise O'Brien's book the Siege. There is a very interesting part about 1973 war and its actors: Rabin who didn't know what's hapening and being misled by Kissinger, feeding Golda the wrong information, Kissinger himself the self hating Jew that he is trying to bleed Israel as much as possible for political gain, very interesting points from a writer who was Ireland's ambassador to UN and even PM at a time.
20. to 1
(09.20.10)
it is about the worst option
21. to 5 salma
(09.20.10)
it is about -no pay price - not no pay attention . price is not by calling or saying -price is by blood
22. to 17 ..marcella
(09.20.10)
it is about war price not peace prize . may i do not understand the article like you .. but honostly i find this article is like a talkback to my thought .. israil did not pay the price .......
23. 73 war was the greatest VICTORY
helmut ,   berlin   (09.21.10)
I FIND THAT THE PEOPLE OF ISRAEL ARE VERY HARD ON THEMSELVES. AS A MILITARY HISTORIAN I MUST TELL YOU THAT THE YOM KIPPUR WAR WAS ONE OF THE GREATEST MILITARY ACHIEVEMENTS OF ALL TIME. OUT NUMBERED, SURPRISED, AND ILL PREPARED AND YET YOU MANAGE TO BEAT THE ARABS AND TURN THE TIED OF THE WAR. YOUR TROOPS WERE IN AFRICA AND ON SYRIAN SOIL AND THE THIRD ARMY WAS COMPLETELY SURROUNDED. IF IT WERE NOT FOR THE RUSSIANS THE 73 WAR WOULD HAVE IN FACT ENDED MUCH LIKE THE 6 DAY WAR. YES, OF COURSE MISTAKES WERE MADE BUT YOU MUST BE PROUD.
24. to 23
22   (09.21.10)
SIR. iam not a militay not a historian but i remember that mr. sadat had said -i do not want to fight america .....
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