Opinion
Letting the IDF win
Yoaz Hendel
Published: 20.09.10, 18:09
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30 Talkbacks for this article
1. Um...You Forgot The Separation Wall - DUH
Seth ,   Washington, DC   (09.20.10)
2. Oh yeah... The old, good "solution".
Albrecht ,   P.O.   (09.20.10)
There was also a visible decline of "terror" in the occupied Europa after the "retaliatory measures" by the Germans. But was it a long term solution for them? I don't know.
3. Resounding Israeli victory is the ONLY solution.
Chaim ,   Israel   (09.20.10)
The infallibly wrong left has been telling us, for decades, "There is no military solution". We must appease the terrorists and give them what they want. The truth is that resounding Israeli victory, with no concessions, is the ONLY solution. Just as the resounding Allies' WW II victory, over Germany and Japan, with no concesions, brought seemingly permanent peace to Europe and Asia. Annex Judea and Samria. Pay Arabs to leave. SImple.
4. @ Seth
Dan ,   USA   (09.20.10)
The Wall .... DUH .. .that was a military solution ! And yes ... it works great.
5. Wall is monitored and patrolled by soldiers - DUH
John Klekota ,   Las Vegas USA   (09.20.10)
Many times people here in USA said to me .. How can we stop our problems at the Mexican Border ?? - I always answer = We should hire the Israeli Army ..Most people reply = That would surely do it , too bad they are too busy to take the job . The wall can be breached quite easily without the soldiers on the job . Duh
6. Dolphinarium should have sparked operation.
(09.20.10)
7. we have not won until we remove the
avrom ,   bet shwemesh   (09.20.10)
states that arm ,finance and give ideological succor to the terrorists.The military measures used now are squashing a spring as soon as the pressure is removed terror will return with a vengeance
8. #2, ok I'll bite
Danny   (09.20.10)
how exactly did partisan activity decline in Occupied Europe - in the west it was trivial - in the East it was a significant factor in fighting the Germans. Of the top of my head am thinking of several terrorist campaigns that ended: 1) IRA - ended with the IRA militarily defeated and them essentially admitting so 2) Sri Lanka and Tamil Tigers - Ended when the Tigers were militarily defeated. 3) Muslim brotherhood in Syria - ended when Assad the elder massacred them in 1982. 4) Islamist uprising in Algeria in the 90s - ended when the military wiped them out. See a pattern building up?
9. Barak is using in these talks the same principle
Seppo ,   Finland   (09.20.10)
like in peace talks 2000 and in intifada; let's show that we are weak and let them win. And he is teaching to Bibi this disastrous tactic. Muslims understand only strength and experience of PA and Hamas has shown that they are stronger than Israel. Result no concessions. Weaker Israel should do them. Anything unilateral from Israel strengthens Arabs.
10. Guy Bechor, are you really that shortsighted or..
Oren ,   Bat Yam   (09.20.10)
are your columns simply for comical relief. The depth of your articles reminds me of the kneret during the drought. Let's please add some more insight...Thanks!
11. old news
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (09.20.10)
The canard that there is no military solution to terror was invented by the extreme Left to justify appeasement and further their political aims. For years, the extreme Left said that it was impossible to defeat the First Intifada until Shamir and Ahrens came and finished it off. Ehud Barak was helpless against the Fatah terror onslaught commanded by Arafat. When Sharon (then a Right-winger) took over, he militarily defeated Arafat's forces.
12. the wall is not difficult to get around
Israeli   (09.20.10)
there are many breaks in the wall, many areas not yet walled off so I don't believe it is the wall (although less opportunity does give less chance of terrorists sneaking past). The real change is Palestinians realizing that violence is not giving them what they want. That has to do with the IDF operations (hitting them back) and seeing how the desired effects of violence (deterent, wish fulfilment) do not work.
13. the best offense, if a great defense
pini ,   usa   (09.20.10)
the wall works.
14. #10, wrong article....
Danny   (09.20.10)
15. Rockets from the sky targeting terrorist leaders
Klekota ,   Las Vegas USA   (09.20.10)
This is what truly stopped the terror...This is also what we favor in Waziristan..... Go after the LEADERS.
16. Sharons' visit excuse
art ,   jersey city   (09.21.10)
why do you keep repeating the old canard blaming Sharon. His visit was merely an excuse for arafat who NEVER intended to work for peace
17. We have never attempted the military option
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (09.21.10)
Let's face the facts - the IDF can defeat the terrorists. We have tied both their hands, feet and gag them and still they win. Let the Zahal go for just 48 hours. I mean really use the full force something that we haven't done since 1973.
18. Really, you won?! Congratulations $$
Salma ,   Palestine   (09.21.10)
We lost but we did and will not surrender !! fast walking will really help you someday. good luck!
19. Exactly, Klekota
Cameron ,   USA   (09.21.10)
Footsoldiers are a dime a dozen, but nothing brings about disarray & doubt like the steady liquidation of high-profile leadership. Drone strikes have proven to be a truly superb weapon toward that end. Nothing inspires dark dread in these wankers like the thought of drones striking without warning, but also the real possibility of a drone lifting not only them, but their entire family a 100ft. in the air. A heavy thought, but this is a heavy business, and one does what one must at the end of the day.
20. Not necessarily
Tomer ,   Hod Hasharon, Israel   (09.21.10)
I think the 2nd intifada petered out, yes because of the IDF operations, but also because of the fence/wall as Seth #1 suggested, and also the fact that the terrorist factions in the Palestinian areas woke up to the fact that people were dying on both sides for precisely nothing. In fact, they'd simply made their situation worse - more checkpoints, more limits on their everyday lives etc. And so we continue to this very day, in a stalemate. BTW military might is not always the answer. The Taliban still seem to have the upper hand in Afghanistan despite countless military operations, drones, the full works. Plus the accidental killings of uninvolved civilians seems to have turned the locals against their "liberators".
21. Yom Kippur
Smith ,   TA, Israel   (09.21.10)
When you take this article in conjunction with what Guy Bechor wrote yesterday one begins to get the feeling that we're not reflecting upon reality correctly. This is the kind of hubris that cost us so dearly in the Yom Kippur War. The idea that the IDF is indefeatable. That only military force solves our problems. I think Yoaz Handel needs to think about what he wrote a lot more. There are a lot of political factors to the ending of the intifada that he does not mention such as the death of Arafat and the rise of Abbas, for example.
22. @8 You're so wrong
Smith ,   TA, Israel   (09.21.10)
The IRA was never militarily defeated. That conflict was resolved through political agreement and economic development. No one in the British establishment would risk being made a laughing stock by claiming it was a military victory as you have. Further, the clues to that its a political agreement is that in spite of the recent economic decline and the spate of sectarian violence this caused in some areas the overwhelming majority of Northern Irish prefer the agreement over violence. Algeria is still violent. They brought an end to the civil war there but terrorist violence and lawlessness continues in many parts of the country. We'll see how long Sri Lanka stays peaceful. If the Tamil's lives aren't improved then war will break out again. Assad pulled it off but even in Syria there is constant repression against the Muslim Brotherhood to this day. I'm not sure what the pattern you're trying to point out is. That in 3/4 of the cases you listed the army used overwhelming force and massacred tens of thousands of civilians? Indeed, if Handel is right we should ask ourselves was the price worth it in terms of Israeli treasure and the type of politics we have today.
23. #22, ah really?
(09.21.10)
From the words of Jack Straw - "It also has to be said that before that happened, there had to be a change of approach by those who saw terrorism as the answer. And that approach partly changed because of the firmness of the military and police response to that terrorism. And if there had not been that firm response by successive British governments and others to the terrorist threat that was posed on both sides, we would not have been able to get some of those people into negotiations. We would not be marking what is a satisfactory day in the history of Northern Ireland today." http://avalon.law.yale.edu/sept11/powell_brief29.asp As we know now the security forces had massively penetrated the IRA in the 90s. They had arrested or killed most of the senior leaders and even the IRA military leadership had agreed the best they could hope for was stalemate. One should point out that it is obvious because the IRA decommissioned it arms in return for an agreement that got exactly zero of their stated aims. For Algeria: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algerian_Civil_War Can throw in Shining Path and FARC in South America. The point I am making is that in most cases insurgencies are militarily defeated. They don't end in some sort of political recounciliation. The author of this article is 100% right. As for the type of country, you prefer Israel of 2001-2002 with daily attacks or Israel of 2009-2010 with virtually none? Do you like having to worry about getting on a bus? Or have a coffee? Or pizza?
24. re #22 - only half right
David ,   Modiin, Israel   (09.21.10)
True the IRA was not actually defeated, but British military successes finally convinced (most) of them that they could never win militarily. Then, and only then, did a political solution become possible. BTW, the overwhelming majority of the population of N Ireland preferred agreement over violence long before the peace process started. But the men of violence never took any notice of this. Indeed, those who opposed the violence were either terrorised into silence, forced to flee abroad or lived in fear of their lives.
25. #24, ok it depends what you mean by "defeated"
Danny   (09.21.10)
They gave up the fight without acheiving a single one of their aims and gave up because they were not able to act militarily. Just like Hamas in the West Bank. What Straw said in my post of #23 is the polite way of saying they were defeated. Being a politician he didn't rub the IRA's face in it.
26. #21, again bizarre reading of history
Danny   (09.21.10)
The Yom Kippur War came about exactly because Israel was willing to put up with provocations such as letting the SAMs come right up to the canal. How did the death of Arafat stop Hamas and PIJ carrying out attacks? End of 2004 the second Intifada was pretty much over. I know you don't like the answer but when you are fighting a war there really is not substitute for victory.
27. Smith #21 you have no idea what you are talking about
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (09.21.10)
I was in the '73 and crossed the canal under Sharon's command. We were not allowed to do anything UNTIL the Arabs attacked. The IDF WASN'T allowed to defend. That was what happened. Against the terrorists we have never used but the tiniest of a fraction of the military power that we do have. It does no good if you don't use it. The Arabs have used everything they have and we just swat them. The time has come to stop merely swatting flies and crush the terrorists.
28. to27
(09.22.10)
you are 73 .out of use in crushing . but you are angry from the 73 war .. so it is both 73 but so different
29. #16, weird this lie keeps coming up
Danny   (09.22.10)
Given the first killing of the intifada was the day BEFORE Sharon's visit and the rioting on kicked off the day AFTER Sharon's visit.
30. IDF Presence
Nathan ,   Providence USA   (09.22.10)
When the average Palestinian sees that joining terrorism will get him killed and that having economic peace with Jews is good for both sides, we will have peace. Let the IDF stay in Judea and Samaria (as it is our land anyways) whatever a final agreement looks like.
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