En route to theocracy?
Assaf Wohl
Published: 21.09.10, 11:10
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1. Assaf Wohl, Be careful what you write ,
Salma ,   Palestine   (09.21.10)
Rabbi Ovadial is very sensitive, he'll send you to hell !!!! by the way, What is "Israeli" democracy?!!
2. solution
Golan ,   Modiin   (09.21.10)
Reduce areas where the government has control. If the government has no control over the "health care" it cannot charge for people joining gyms and forcing them to "see a doctor" Also public education only subsedizes english, hebrew, history, math, science, Judaic studies of a limited time and anything beyond that is not funded. In other words for Haredi education people will have to privately fund their education. Also the poor... by allowing companies to have greater control of who they keep and who they dismiss without punishment investors will be freer to take on risks and give young people chances and with the growing market place the older workers with experience will have more to offer and can negotiate a better compensation. The government should stay out of this. (Tamat should be reduced with 99% abolished.) Rabbis will be too busy trying to find funding than to run for the knesset and once in they have no control or little influence over what they can fund. Still I prefer a rabbi over some secular communist, and currently I prefer Shas to Labor. Now that Labor is almost dead we can focus on Shas but it too is a weak party having reached 17 mandates and being unable to reach that number again.
3. Two observations
R ,   Israel   (09.21.10)
I think it was an already existing agreement that forced us back onto winter time so early, and not Eli Yishai. Scary scenario. What is the solution? I guess that seculars have more children.
4. Ynet has some pretty low quality writers...
Mike ,   US   (09.21.10)
5. I am more and more amazed how Israel is turnin Xtian, Muslim
John ,   Europe   (09.21.10)
"Yet I’m also aware that it’s none of my business what my neighbor does in his own home" This is the point. The rest is Xtian point of view, where you cannot be if you don't except Jesus Christ as your savior or Muhammad as the prophet.
6. Gevalt, Assaf might be (almost) right!
tom ,   tel aviv   (09.21.10)
First: we relish (I do!) in the prognosis of arab takeover of Europe based on the present demographic trend. If that assumption is right then looking at our own demographics I must come to the conclusion that in not-so-many years there'll be no place for fiercely secular-but patriotic folks like me in Eretz Isruel! Second: Based on the motto "my enemy's enemies are my friends" I have to support the mostly right-leaning , patriotic and anti-leftist block of above-mentioned religious nuts, knowing well, that after our final victory over the even darker forces of Islam MY turn will come!! It's a sad-sad situation, and it's almost absurd.... What's a poor Pat Condell's disciple to do ??! Go back to shtet'l...???
7. Are you KIDDING??!!
sean ,   jerusalem   (09.21.10)
Democracy was thrown out the window years ago with the left wing manipulation of nearly all infrastructure including the police and judicial system. Even the political system has no boundaries, they just do whatever they regardless of what the people say, vote or desire. Too bad you weren't out on the street taking care of the actually existing left wing disenfranchisement for the past ten or twenty years instead of being so bothered by a possible might-happen years from now.
8. Assaf Whol on Charedi and Shas threat
Asher ,   Bet Shemesh   (09.21.10)
Dear Assaf, There is not a growing Charedi movement to conquer the State, there is a growing movement to Hozer biTshuva. So the best thing (or the worst for you) I can wish you is that your children too will be among the Charedi group in 10 years. Asher
9. I hope you are wrong.
Mike Carmel ,   Rishon le Zion   (09.21.10)
And no doubt you also hope you are wrong. However, there is one more issue which is perhaps the most important in determining whether you are wrong or not, and that is the incredible birth rate in the Haredi communities. THAT is what is really worrying with regard to the future of democracy. Look at Beit Shemesh for instance.......
10. Israel G-d's land to the Jews is SUPPOSED TO BE a JEWISH
Shalom   (09.21.10)
Country FIRST and THEN a democracy. I guess that means a theocracy first. Momentarily it's neither, certainly not a democracy and never has been since the State was created. It's more likely a Stalinist State with its leaders from Russia continuing their Communism Manifesto. Hopefully soon it will be truly Jewish run by Torah laws just the way G-d wanted it to be. After all Jews who feel that Israel rightfully belongs to them because it is says so in the Torah, must abide by all G-d's laws of this Torah.
11. #1 Salma You're asking: What is "Israeli" democracy?!!"
Shalom   (09.21.10)
It is a Leftist entity that continues to battle Torah and Halachah.
12. The things that pass for "journalism" on ynet...
Ari ,   UK   (09.21.10)
This is no more than a trashy essay with very little content but a lot of scaremongering. How can you compare Shas to the current regime in Turkey? Do Shas's leadership fund international terrorism and cosy-up to dictators like Syria's Assad and Iran's Ahmadinejad? Liberal Israelis are so desperate to "be like everyone else" that they have to invent some kind of "bogeyman" on the opposite side of the political spectrum to rail against and stand in opposition to - otherwise the left will just become irrelevant... This is poor journalism.
13. Shas
AVIEL ,   Metz, France   (09.21.10)
This article is full of demagoguery .> Like Mr. Wohl, I could.nt care less about "religious" environment, which is as legitimate as his demands (and mine) for a secular one, both of which should and do co-exist in a so-called Democratic State. Now, Mr. Wohl really has no beef when the religious party that is on ascendance ion Israel power politics, had it been Ashkenazi. The demands of Shas is one of Social, Economic, and Political Justice, overlooking these tennements of Shas is being ignorant.
.......DACON9   (09.21.10)
ISRAELI VERSION OF DEMOCRACY FAILED YOU SAY: . Eli Yishai is growing stronger, while the fans of democracy are growing weaker I REPLY: because of ISRAELIS failed policy of kindness and tolerance and misinterpretations of the term 'democracy' which doesnt mean self destruction through democracy; AND PERMISIVENESS FOR MOSQUES ARAB TERRORISM AND EXCESSIVE ''DEMOCRACY'' AND PERMISSIVENESS FOR XTIAN SPIRITUAL TERRORISM ALLOWING MISSIONARY AND CHURCH GROUPS EXCESSIVE ''DEMOCRACY'' AND becase ISRAEL still thinks it is in european and roman rule with socialism and communism and bowing to poops in rome FORGETTING THAT PART OF ISRAEL WAS RETURN TO JEWS NOT TO ARABS OR BAHIAS OR XTIANS OR MOHAMED OR JESESS FORGETTING THAT THE GD OF ISRAEL BLESSES ISRAEL NOT the united states or sarkozy ,not abbas fatah may hamas and him be blotted out SO BASICALLY ISRAEL VOTES FOR PEOPLE THAT HAVE NO KNOWLEDGE OF ISRAEL, yes they may have fought in a war or educated in america....what does that prove in the end? WHAT DID THE ONE GD OF ISRAEL PROVE TO THE WORLD? That ISRAEL and the observers of TORAH will exist forever and ever as the PROPHETS ADVISED US AND WE WITNESS DAILY.
15. Yes, it is so.
A Jerusalemite ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.21.10)
Very happy to see that I am not the only one being 'paranoid' here about the growth of the religious influence. The danger is real - a Jewish Iran is in the offing. But will any of us do anything about it? I answer with another question: How many of us actually go out and vote?!?
16. RADICAL ATHEIST LEFTISTS think that if Israel is a Jewish
John   (09.21.10)
country it will turn into Iran but it will actually be more free and democratic! RADICAL ATHEIST LEFTISTS rule by dictatorship and hate democracy and free speech!
17. To#4: Not just low quality! They are self-hating Leftists!
David   (09.21.10)
they cant stand to look in the mirror!
18. It wouldn't be a problem if people where voting for him
Danny   (09.21.10)
but most people vote for secular parties and it is the idiotic Israeli system that gives these people their power.
19. Israel is dead...
Michael Steiner ,   Bahrain   (09.21.10)
...unless it transforms into a secular, peaceful state. If Israel becomes a theocracy and/or continues occupying the territories, its days are numbered. The Jewish nation will split again and spend the two more millennia in the galut. (1) We have to withdraw from the West Bank, and (2) We have to confine religion exclusively to the private domain. That is the only recipe for long-term survival.
20. #1 Salma
Df ,   Beer Sheva   (09.21.10)
I am not particularly worried about Yosef sending anyone to hell since in Judaism there is no hell. And I understand your question about Israeli democracy since within the Arab world, no such thing as democracy exists. Therefore, I doubt you have the background to understand the concept of democracy.
21. #11
Df ,   Beer Sheva   (09.21.10)
Democracy has nothing to do with leftists, centrists or rightists. Democracy is the framework that allows you to express yourself as you did here and allows Assaf Wohl to express himself as he did. I suggest you look at what has happened in Iran to see what the lack of democracy leads to. And btw - many other countries as well.
22. #3 - Two observations
Df ,   Beer Sheva   (09.21.10)
Yes, it was a compromise made about 6 years ago. Still that doesn't make it good or right. But Yishai did have the power to change the ruling but has refused. Another "compromise" is the Tal law. IMO - a much worse "compromise" but still a compromise. Its effect has been to increase dramatically the number of charedi exemptions from the IDF. But again, to go back to your statement - it is an already existing agreement. The solution you have given is not going to happen. A much more reasonable solution is to overhaul the electoral system. But anyone who has followed the Israeli political scene for the past 4 decades knows that that is not going to happen either.
23. #17 David
Df ,   Beer Sheva   (09.21.10)
So anyone who doesn't agree with you is a self hating leftist! Standard egotistical statements by someone who thinks that his stance is the absolute truth. There are many leftists and centrists that agree with Wohl who are not associated with those who call for the boycott of Israel, Israeli universities, etc. There are your self hating leftists, not someone like Wohl who sees the erosion of the democratic framework.
24. #16
Df ,   Beer Sheva   (09.21.10)
A theocracy by nature cannot be democratic. Whenever you have a group of people who are set up to interpret God's law without these individuals being elected by the citizenry of a country, you do not have a democracy. Your assumption that the people who warn against theocracies are willy nilly RADICAL ATHEIST LEFTISTS is based on nothing but your notion of what to label anyone who doesn't agree with you.
25. #14 Dacon9
The Stoic ,   Israel   (09.21.10)
And mr. Dacon9, who doesn't even live in Israel is an expert on Israeli democracy and what is going on here. Make aliya man and come live under the coming theocracy.
26. Israel a Democracy????
moi ,   ici   (09.21.10)
Its NOT a Democracy, only when Israel will SEPERATE RELIGION & STATE it will be a REAL Democracy, then Israel can finally join, 10 years to late, the 21st Century.......
27. Theocracy or Constitutional Monarchy?
lenco ,   New York, USA   (09.21.10)
The threat of a "theocracy" is nothing more than a scare tactic from the left. Israel's future is a Constitutional Monarchy, not much different than that of England, Canada, Spain, Denmark, and the like. The "constitution" is called the Torah; Israeli federal law will be based on the Shulchan Aruch; a descendant of the House of David will be the King, who must be a scholar, have a sterling character, and who is fully subject to the law; a Sanhedrin of brilliant Talmidei Chachamim (of the likes of the saintly Chofetz Chaim, Rav Aryeh Levin, Moshe Feinstein, Rambam, Rashi, Baba Sali (oy, the list of our saintly ancestors is just overwhelming) will replace the Knesset as the legislature; the Beit Din in Jerusalem will establish a court system throughout the country, dedicated to "Justice, justice, you shall pursue." The Israeli national motto will be identical to the present day U.S. motto, found on all of our money, and on the wall behind the bench in virtually every courthouse in America: "In G-d We Trust." As per Vayikra 25:10, Israel will have a government which "proclaims liberty throughout the land and to ALL the inhabitants thereof." Now, what was that about a scary "theocracy again?"
28. Dictatorial secularism has failed in Europe and the US
Baruch ,   Boston, USA   (09.21.10)
At least a theocracy has a moral and ethical basis. Secularism is just do-your-own-thing chaos, with no values or structure, except that it rejects religion and morality.
29. The great democratic system.....
Shalom ,   U.S.A.   (09.21.10)
The democaric system is self destructive. It didn't work in ancient Greece, it doesn't work in the U.S. and it's not working in Israel either. It has A short life span: ultra liberal movements are taking advantage of the freedom inherent in the political system and undemining national interests and in the process destroyng moral and ethical values. DECADENCE!
30. Israel a democracy?
Adi Schnytzer ,   Ra'anana Israel   (09.21.10)
Why fuss about Shas? We won't have a democracy until we elect MKs DIRECTLY and not via rigged lists with protected leaders. What democracy has had a man who NEVER won an election serve as PM 3 times? And now he's our fine President!
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