Opinion
The broken UN dream
Yoaz Hendel
Published: 25.09.10, 12:22
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31. The UN
carlos ,   San Diego U.S.A.   (09.26.10)
After A-jad speech at the UN and all UN reports and statement , it is hard to believe that there are still imbecils taking it seriously. All the UN defenders are at A-jad level of retardness.
32. UNHRC sad clowns
Shai ,   Mexico   (09.26.10)
The UNHRC has two main missions, none of which has anything to do with human rights. The first is to provide immunity to themselves from human rights scrutiny. Think of it as the inmates running the asylum. The second mission is to fabricate cases against Israel in oder to delegitimize it and ultimately lead to its destruction.
33. to #25 gdsg: bad un
grue   (09.26.10)
Don't blame that on the poor UN, it was the League of Nations, before it failed and the UN replaced it. If I may present some glorious chapters of UN history, just two of them, for you to compare what could be the so called worst thing. 1. The free state of Katanga, on which the United Nations forces launched a decisive attack in December 1962. (Wikipedia says:'many sources on location claims that UN troops initiated and maintained a high degree of violence and was responsible for hundreds if not even thousands of civilian deaths' Notice, that this was before the aforementioned decisive attack, which extinguished Katanga) Secondly, a case of inaction, which is just as appaling: In 1994 they failed to end the Rwandan Genocide. The UN and its member states did not respond to the realities on the ground, once more and so the displaced and refugees instabilized neighbouring Congo and contributed to two bloody wars and continuing clashes. Now, I have serious doubts if that changed your mind, but to me the establishment of a state appears a slightly more noble cause than extinguishing one, doesn't it?
34. David #1 and Matty Groves
Jason, Ph.D. ,   Charlotte, USA   (09.26.10)
First of all, David, you did not address any of the points the author made, making your comments completely irrelevant. Also, if you think that comdenations of Israel have anything to do with Israel's actions, your naivette knows no bounds. Now, to both David and Matty: any condemnation of human rights without invoking a comparative basis is immoral. Why? Because without such a comparative basis, every country is guilty of human rights violation. It is obvious to the core that Israel is a veritable saintly nation as compared to its enemies. It is also obvious that so called International Law needs to be rewritten from top to bottom, and that the U.N. is as much a failure as was its predecessor the League of Nations. There are times when so called International Law should and must be ignored until it is at least somewhat aligned with moral law.
35. :: 23
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (09.26.10)
Since May 2000 Israel has been a member of the Asian regional group thus it can apply for membership of the UNHRC.
36. :: Howard - #29
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (09.26.10)
Howard it is a common rule of thumb that ‘Respect’ as to be earned and in Israel’s case if Israel wants to be respected in regard to Human Rights it will have to do a hell of a lot better than just paying lip service while in practice violating such human rights. For example if Israel was serious about human rights it should abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention of which it is bound by instead of ignoring this Convention so it can trample on the human rights of the Palestinians. I would also add that it’s quite nauseating that you find legitimate criticism and condemnation of Israel’s violations of basic human rights “humorous”.
37. :: Jason - #34
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (09.26.10)
Where are you getting this rubbish from? Are you seriously saying that it is “immoral” to condemn Israel’s human rights abuses without first applying a comparative model based on the human rights abuses committed by other countries?! If you were to put this madness into practice you could say (hypnotically) that Israel’s human rights record is ‘superior’ to that of Egypt’s because Israel only cuts off two fingers while torturing a prisoner compared to Egypt who has a policy of cutting off four fingers!! No Jason it doesn’t work like that. The Do’s and Don’t’s of adherence to human rights are enshrined in International Law and no comparative model is applied based on your own interpretation of ‘moral law’.
38. israel should withdraw from UN because it is a joke
avrom ,   bet shemesh   (09.26.10)
most of its members abuse human rights ,the rule of law and are corrupt Israel should establish a group of nations that is committed to true human rights, democracy,and respect for women Membership will be by invitation only
39. Matty, #36
Howard Immanuelson ,   Dallas, US   (09.26.10)
Matty, you continually fail to see the forest because of the trees. Respect DOES has to be earned and having a group of the world's worst human rights abusers routinely condemn Israel (often in advance of their 'findings') is sometimes hilarious, sometimes just sad. You have the worst sort of myopic tunnel vision that ultimately ends in nothing but condemnation of Israel regardless of the occasion. Using your own example, you'd be roundly and harshly condemning Israel for keeping a prisoner in solitary confinement while many members of the UNHRC would simply round a similar prisoner up and kill them. Now we'd never hear a *peep* from you about that, but OMG, Israel would be the worst country on earth. Your hypocrisy is just appalling.
40. :: Howard - #39
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (09.26.10)
Ah I see! You are using the same ‘comparative analysis model’ as Jason in #34. Howard it doesn’t matter a fig what other members of the UNHRC are guilty of in relation to Human Rights abuses, as pointed out before *all nations* are generally guilty of human rights abuses to one degree or another. The USA for example has a horrendous human rights record yet it often sits in judgement and criticizes other nations like Iraq/Iran. It is an imperfect world we live in and yes countries that have dismal human rights records will be elected to judge other nations on their human rights record. That’s life learn how to deal with it. BTW just because another nations who are (also) guilty of human rights violations deem that Israel is in breach of basic human rights laws doesn’t mean that Israel’s human rights violations are in any way lessened or negated. I would also add that these other nations that you speak of don’t consider themselves the ‘vanguard of Western morals and freedoms’ in the ME nor do they claim that their armies are ‘the most moral in the world’ so don’t talk to me about “hypocrisy”.
41. Matty #40 - You MUST be kidding
Elihu ,   Efrat, Isral   (09.27.10)
You said ...t doesn’t matter a fig what other members of the UNHRC are guilty of in relation to Human Rights abuses, as pointed out before *all nations* are generally guilty of human rights abuses to one degree or another. What a convenient (and dangerous)mushing of all notions of quality and quantity to justify an absurd situation, where the very worst offenders get to lynch those who -while imperfect- still stand head and shoulders above these villians. Such moral relativism is the very root of the moral illness now gripping the world. Look carefully - What does Iran have to tell us about Women's Rights? Should Ahmedinajad get to judge the U.S. on that topic because "everybody is imperfect"? Sould Ahmedinijad, who actually claimed at Columbia University that there are no homosexuals in his country,get to set standards on gay rights? Even if, the U.S. doesen't have perfect record, on human rights "genrally", would you seriously equate the two countries' legal syatems and moral underpinnings? Such moral equation would effectively justifiy the action every lynch mob,de jure. For just this reason, the Goldstone report was an embrassment - along with the fact that it was rife with errors of law, fact and logic. See for instance: http://www.hoover.org/publications/policy-review/article/43281 When those who are supposed to be judges have malevolent agendas, no systems of checks and balances and defenders who grant them credibility based on wooly logic like "well, nobody's perfect" we gran legitimacy to a system where the worst offenders are equated to, or elevated above, moral actors.
42. #40, are you insane?
Danny   (09.27.10)
The record of the US is not even comparable to Iran's. The point is that if you are looking to improve human rights then you start with the worst abusers first, you don't start with relatively trivial offenders first. Just like if you pulled all the police off murder, rape and armed robbery cases to deal solely with jay walking. THAT is what the UNHRC is doing and it is doing it for a reason which is then whenever someone complains about say North Korea starving - and actually starving not fake Gaza "humanitarian crisis" starving - to death 10% of its population then idiots like you pop up with some comment about how Palestinians have wait in line at checkpoints. You should face what you are, an enabler for the worst countries in the world to freely murder, imprison, rob and rape their people by making sure no one focuses on it.
43. UN & UNHRC leaders both agree UNHRC is biased
bob ,   NZ   (09.27.10)
from wikipedia- ''According to human rights groups, the council is controlled by a bloc of Islamic and African states, backed by China, Cuba and Russia, who protect each other from criticism.[3] UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon and former High Commissioner for Human Rights Mary Robinson have criticized the council for acting according to political considerations as opposed to human rights. Specifically, Secretaries General Kofi Annan and Ban Ki Moon, the council's president Doru Costea, the European Union, Canada and the United States have accused the council of focusing disproportionately on the Israeli–Palestinian conflict''
44. Gaza blockade and flotilla interception: lawful
International Law ,   For Israel   (09.27.10)
While everybody is barking "illegal" in the context of the Gaza blockade and the blockade-breaking ships interception, NOBODY mentions the exact laws which these actions break. Not even the HRC reports! They mention a few out of context, irrelevant and distorted quotes of the law, walking a thin line between fraud and criminal disinformation, which is understandable considering the persons and countries involved in creating this disgraceful document. There are no exact references to relevant laws because the Gaza blockade and the interception at sea have been conducted precisely according to the International Law. The Leftist and Muslim propaganda bark "illegal", and hordes of incited Islamo-Leftists parrot the slogan without checking facts. Why? Only because Israel is involved. Only because this mob's boundless hatred and racism against Jews and Israel, and the favorable atmosphere created by appeasing morons worldwide. I challenge ANY talkbacker here to PROVE that these actions broke ANY relevant International Law or International Law at Sea and expose himself/herself as a hateful, hypocrite fraud. I challenge you to post the exact quotes and law paragraph numbers if you want anybody to take you seriously. If you aren't able to do so, then shut your hole and keep your ignorant, vitriolic ramblings to your local mosques and Leftist gatherings hate-fests.
45. Matty, you're a hateful hypocrite. Not everybody is blind.
J. Yam ,   Singapore   (09.27.10)
Well, but it DOES matter who are the members of an official organization! Its membership gives substance to the values or agenda it claims to promote or enforce. Would you want that Police or the Ministry of Justice members be active criminals? Would you want to be tried by a murderer, admonished by a drug dealer or preached to by a rapist? I guess that you do, because that's exactly what you're claiming here. Well, guess what: Israel does not deserve to be preached to about Human Rights by countries which have among the worst Human Right record on Earth! The posters above have just proven the point and the membership list and its combined Human Rights track record do not lie. You cannot dismiss these fact whatever you say and regardless of how many times you say it. Israel does not deserve to be preached to by its worst enemies whose agenda is a new genocide of the Jewish people. Yes, you know what these enemies are - just use the mirror to see their ugly face. Anyway, you cannot hide behind your warped and manipulative word juggling. Regardless your many carefully-worded talkbacks infesting this forum, the evidence shines through: your hypocrisy and racism do not fall behind those of the UN and its many cangoroo courts. Keep posting and keep proving our point.
46. #40 Relevant definition of hypocrisy
Truth From The ,   Middle East   (09.27.10)
"Matty", you are trying to smoke screen, or better said, to double talk here: hypocrisy is not only defined by what you say or claim, it is also (or mostly) defined by what you practice, especially in the case of such important causes as Human Rights. These countries, which you already agree they are among the worst HR offenders around, are trying to enforce the very laws and values they have routinely breaking. That is the epitome of hypocrisy. That defeats any respect, relevance or moral basis for any of their resolutions. That defeats the applicability and jurisdiction of any of their resolutions since their origin and creation are questionable at best. That questions the very reasons behind these shameful resolutions. Your obvious efforts to whitewash these resolutions and HRC also proves your hypocrisy and proves that you have ulterior motives which are quite far from your implied love for Human Rights. As a matter if fact, your rants are sickening in terms of disinformation, manipulation and trials to deflect the truth and the attention from the sad state of the UN and HRC. You are also "practicing" hypocrisy, regardless of how many posts you post or how many convoluted claims to the contrary you make. Have you heard of the saying "practice what you preach"? For as long as you don't follow it, you're a pathetic hypocrite! Learn to live with it!
47. Innocent until proven guilty
George M'bala ,   Johannesburg, SA   (09.27.10)
Let's not forget that these so-called resolutions and reports are nothing more than biased useless pieces of propaganda. They cannot be used to force Israel to do or not do anything, because despite the popular wishful thinking, Israel has not been found guilty in a court if law. And any court of law dealing with these issues should be kept free from personal bias, threats or political pressure, with clean judges, with no past or family linked to any of the parties involved. "Judge" Goldstone is such an example of an Apartheid-supporting racist, being put in charge of examining Israel's defensive activities after having been incessantly attacked, harassed and provoked for 8 years by Hamas terrorist organization which fired 8,000 rockets into Israel's civilian centers and towns. How could Goldstone, who we know quite well, can have any resemblance or relevance to justice and lack of bias? After all, he sent so many if our friends to jail, under the Apartheid "justice". It is clear that in a world where hypocrisy, violence and racism are the order of the day, I don't see such a court being convened any time soon. Until that happens, we should regard any resolution against Israel with suspicion, questioning and dissecting it, finding out who is behind it, who signed on it and who benefits from it. Having dissected such resolutions for a long time, it became evident that they serve one purpose only: the delegitimization of Israel to the point where its destruction becomes acceptable to everybody. If the UN does not stand against this trend promoted by Muslim countries and their active and passive supporters, then the UN and all its connected bodies lose their relevancy and legitimacy. It is high time for creating a body whose members have an agenda not tainted by the Islamic dreams of world domination, or Leftist or Nazi dreams of world anarchy, not to mention tainted by petty delegates and politicians under the payroll of Petro-Dollars and Middle Eastern or Latin American tyrants.
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