I'd rather them on our side than the other side. Make it easy to convert and accept them as brothers and sisters. They can slowly learn more.

In every domain you learn first,and than you receive a diploma.Converts that do not feel completely integreted are not on our side,often even on the contrary,If they want to be really jewish they will do the necessary effort.

that if the question was worded differently, like, 'would you marry or have your children marry a questionable reformed conversion, would you accept them as Jewish.

First - 507 respondents is not statistically relevant. Though I'd imagine the required 1500+ figure would show up a similar result. Second - The Lockes and the Humes of political science developed the question: should a government act according to what the people WANT (Democrats - Clinton), or according to what they NEED (Republican - Bush), even if unpopular? This is a tricky question. If law is determined by what people want, then if they are more comfortable with the idea that the Earth is flat then it will be flat - truth be darned. But if law goes by what they need, who exactly does the determining? How do they know what the people need? Authentic Judaism (rare these days) has a hybrid mentality, unquestioningly determining what the people NEED, while understanding that what the people want affects what they need, and should be taken into account. I'm with Simon, if I understand him correctly. Democracy is the best of awful forms of government. R' Adin Steinsaltz's Sanhedrin needs to become POPULAR to be an alternative to this nightmare in Israel. If it were populated by the kinds of persons more interested in welcoming wannabe Jews and pro-women, understanding of homosexuality and so on, plus some good marketing, we'd be on the right track. Unfortunately, when our religious leaders are not busy inspecting your plate to see if you're eating mehadrin min hamehadrin min hamehadrin, they're occupied with how high their stockings are. We need to assur: "chadash min hatorah - assur"

"the necessary effort" you speak about today involves 70-90% unnecessary jumping through hoops, I'm ashamed of my orthodox brothers. The barriers to entry push potentially beautiful, wonderful Jews away into the arms of pretenders. The perceived need for Reform and Conservative streams would be severely beaten back if only the orthodox was dropped from orthodox Judaism - it's bad marketing. Authentic Judaism is the way forward. I recommend Rabbi Angel's Jewish Ideas and Ideals - google it.

Israelis don't understand what non-orthodox means. They assume someone who converted is very serious about Judaism and that a real rabbi is involved. They have no idea that non-orthodox converts may still be doing things like keeping christmas with no particular Jewish knowledge at all.

Israelis are very open minded about who is part of the country and nation and don't listen to rabbinical judaism.

Yes, but reform or Conservative also has to go through some sort of learning experience and than a diploma. It is not like they are Jewish Instantly? But what it comes down to is the person. Just like Ruth in the Bible (King David's Grandmamma) who committed herself to be Jewish became Jewish instantly when she said it and was practicing Judaism all her life thereafter. I or you cannot judge a person, only G-D can and if a person wants to become Jewish, you must embrace her or him, as that person will only be judged by G-D. I know many Israelis who say they are Jewish, but do not do anything remotely Jewish.

Conversion to Judaism is a matter of proper AUTHORITY. A comparison: May any "rabbi", in our outside of Israel, issue legal Israeli CITIZENSHIP? Of course not, since this to is a matter of proper AUTHORITY.

issued by ANY "religious authority" , even an Orthodox one . There are of course sincere converts , but by converting they only become followers of the Jewish faith . Their great grandchildren will maybe be Jews . Regarding some "conversions" , done to get married or so , why should we accept them as Jews ? And what about those FAKE "converts" who promote their christian beliefs ? Who always attack the Rabbanim ? They are only christian under a Jewish disguise .

The FEEL GOOD Religion. That is a new twist. Who needs the Torah or its Rabbis, just conduct a Poll and let the people decide. Who needs the Israeli Supreme Court, just conduct a survey on the issue you want to discuss. Sounds good to me.

I read a very interesting tb at Rabbi Angels site.It said that in the 17th century,the converts automaticaly practiced halaha,as they lived in a jewish society practicing halaha.This is not the case today.What is than jewish about candidates converts,if they nor have jewish blood,nor practice halaha.What credit would you give to a vegetarian attestation given to a meat eater?

The tb adressed to Michael is also for you.

There is no end in Jewdaism, you never stop learning. Accept people that show a genuine interst. There are no "diplomas", just a journey.

The original definition of Jew, Y'hudi in Hebrew, is a m.s. adj. deriving from the name, later tribe of, Y'hudah, in b'Reishit 29.35: "[Leiah]] conceived yet again, and gave birth to a son, and she said, "This time oDEH (I will thank) Y--H (haSheim)." Therefore, she called his name Y'HUDaH--a contraction of oDEH + Y--H!!! In fact, Y'hudah is merely the NAME with a "d" inserted (i.e., YHUDH). Further, Y'hudah is roughly the fu. 3rd pers. masc. of the otherwise undeveloped huphal (causative passive) construct of יָדָה (yadAH; to thank, confess--customarily accompanied by lauding and praise). The meaning, then, is roughly: "'he shall cause [Y--H] to be confessed & thanked, accompanied by lauding and praise." Thus, the mission of Jews is inherently and inextricably locked in the heart of its core meaning: those who cause ha-Sheim to be confessed and thanked accompanied by lauding and praise. Those who don't have that nephesh may be Edomites (descendants of Esau)--like King Herod--but they are NOT Jews--no matter their racist claims of genetics, ethnicity or culture. Those who have that nephesh are Jews (as demonstrated by doing their utmost to keep Torah according to logical and scientifically-compatible Halakhah) and it is incumbent upon the rabbis to recognize both categories accordingly--else rabbis who refuse are themselves false shepherds recalcitrant against Torah. (Rabbis don't receive dispensation any more than Mosheh Rabeinu or any other Jew.) Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer: Teimani, Baladi, Dor Dai Jew Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority www.netzarim.co.il Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jews & non-Jew geirim)

10% of the Romans Empire (60m) were Jewish.1938 had about 17m Jews. 1945 there were 11m Jews worldwide. There are about 14m Jews currently give or take.,with 5.5in Israel and USA.USA numbers range from 5.1 to 7.5 depending. 30,000 leave Judaism/yearly. 600t have converted to other faiths, including Christianiany and Mormonism, etc.Only theOrthodox are having enough children to replace themselves.Do the math guys. In 40 years the US will have 400m people, less than 4m Jews. The real question is why? Is being Jewish dependent upon ones knowledge of of theTorah, ritual observances, which Torah.? I read Etz Hayim. Most Jews are bagel.lox/NYTimes Jews. Liberalism has replaced Torah. Orthodoxy alienates most Jews , lets admit ti. Jews are not a race except if you believe Hitler. Its a combination of things; its not what goes in ones mouth but what comes out of ones head. Its giving charity, love of G-d and observing the more important commandments. Was Bernie Jewish? Is George Soros Jewish? Think about it.

is Jewish . True Jews , certainly not FAKE converts . Those FAKE people can explain what they want , insult people , but to be Jewish is not upon you to decide . You don't know what it means t6o be a Jew , you don't know what's a "Yiddische Neschoume" , so better don't talk about it .

You are an epikoras, a meshumad. Your words have no relevancy in Judaism. Make teshuvah to Torah!

didn't you say before that, and i quote, "arabs are "OUR" COUSINS""? 1) how can arabs be cousins of jews of a jew is not race?? 2) how can you, a gentile of dubious conversion, say that arabs are "OUR" cousins you are not of jewish stock? don't worry, i do not expect you to answer since you will only contradict yourself further. and that would look bad for you again.

After many years of soul searching and religious research I decided to convert to Judaism. The procedure took over one year in a reform congregation. The rabbi was excellent and pressed I was making this decision. Going through the process we learned and experienced the various holidays through out the year. We explored the history of the Jewish people through weekly classes. It was an enriching experience. I personally choose a reform congregation because of my lack of understanding Hebrew. The reform congregation has a good mix of English and Hebrew. My personal Jewish library consist of hundreds of books. I do not consider myself any less Jewish than anyone else. I have taken classes with Orthodox and Conservative Rabbis and have never felt any animosity from any of them. The Jews that I have had a negative experience with are for the most part non observant. I hope that one day when I visit Israel that I find it welcoming and accepting of converts. Shalom.

Other than the fact that , getting the recognition fro validity purpose, we ortodox boy have sveral important issue. one : We orthodox boys are a devil in sellecting the girls for marriage :-) two : the ebst girls are still orthodox girls but not many avialable these days. three : i had 17 girlsfriend all willing to marry me cos I am jew ( I am also thinking very hard about the demand ) four: I personally was interested with two girls, but both happens to be catholic- so no way , imma threated to commit suicide ! Both the girls left singapore. I became air hostes and decided to saty in Baihrain. The other one became a nun- somewhwre in nigeria. five : I met another one later, very pretty. Isaw here carrying a menora at cambridge through the window. I followed her, psyco her, after two week i foud out she was an anglican. six : another one refused me cos i am circumcised.She married an dgot divorced after 2 years, now a teacher in singapore. seven : married ort girl from Morrocco- mothers choice. she studied in France and finally got married :-) so conversion, marriage, are very challenging issue fro orthodox jew. As such it i sven ahard decision to decide and judge who are the proper converts. Most o fthe time we emphasis too much on orthodoxi to the point we play G-d ! as long a syou are not an xtian I am OK with the conversions. or yah Kosher Food.... and I must buy a new car every year ! :-) dont ask me about the orthodox wedding ? horror 7 days party and party ! That piece od cloth with a special hole, digusting....... Usually we ortodox boy dont like to reveal our identity, but they find out most of the time :-) the moment we are in the synagogue we just blast the blessings......the visitor neew converts feel out of place during the services. :-)0

I am not here to argue with anyones opinions... just to share my personal journey. Growing up a non-Jew was extremely difficult for me. I was raised extremely religious but never felt right about how I was raised. After much soul searching, I gave up the religion of my youth and started searching for my what my soul believed. I converted Reform here in Michigan because I felt that I was not welcome in the Orthodox faith. I studied with my Rabbi for 2+ years before making a commitment to convert. This has been a long journey for me and I feel that I am constantly evolving and growing in my faith. At first I was very lax in a lot of things, but as the years have gone by my faith and practices have grown. I love my faith and struggle to be a better person and better Jew each and every day. How many Jews can say that about themselves? How many Orthodox are actually practicing their faith because they truly believe or are just going through the motions because it was how they were raised? I am not one to question anyones faith, but please don't question mine either because I wasn't born with the right blood. Don't questions my faith because the Orthodoxy didn't want me. What does the Torah say about conversions? The Talmud? I love the fact that someone brought up Ruth! Funny how someone who was not a "true" Jew could be the female ancestor of David..

But , i know , you're a LIAR [ remember those "blessings" ? ] a deceiving NON Jew [ remember " ministry of absorption" ? } You can give me the names you want , insulting that's all you can do . I , contrary to you , can look at a mirror and say : That's an Honest TRUE Jew . You , before talking , become a JEW , a TRUE one , not a fake as you are .

But , i know , you're a LIAR [ remember those "blessings" ? ] a deceiving NON Jew [ remember " ministry of absorption" ? } You can give me the names you want , insulting that's all you can do . I , contrary to you , can look at a mirror and say : That's an Honest TRUE Jew . You , before talking , become a JEW , a TRUE one , not a fake as you are .

Only for Jew Hating guys as hitler and you are Jews part of a race . Jews , not you , are a people , seculars , atheists and religious ones , we belong to this Great people , the Jewish one .

Rami, I am happy to hear you are enjoying your journey into Judaism.

I pray that you will be more accepting of converts. We are not your enemy! Understand people who convert have done so of their own free will. In most cases they where discouraged along the way. I hope that one day you will find it in your heart to be accepting of those that have accepted the Jewish faith as their own.

Even when those converted abroad by Reform or Conservative B'tei Din and arrive under the Law of Return: Heaven help them if they want to get married in Israel. This is the biggest snow job of an article ever.

You both choose to convert to the Jewish faith , and are now sincere follopwers of it , as you say . But you are nothing more than , most likely , nice religious people , who try , at their best knowledge , to follow religious rules . This all does'nt make a Jew of you . You have'nt this background we , Jews since generations , secular or religious , have . You , nor your parents were never persecuted for belonging to Our People . You most likely did'nt rejoyce when the State was founded in 48 . You , most probably , did'nt live with your radio those six days in June 67 , listening to the news , fearing for the survival of Israel , for the life of your family here [ i lived abroad then ] And this are only some points that makes a Jew , not only to be a follower of the Jewish faith . Don't think that i hate you , i'll love you in the same way that i love My non Jewish friends , maybe even a little more . Rami . I agree with you when you say : how many Orthodox are actually practising their faith because they truly believe ....