Whatever plan that was proposed Lieberman is still better than agreeing to a 1967 crap engineered, manipulated and peddled by the dark forces. The 1967 crap is a code for the destruction of Israel by depriving Israel of its vital liberated historic homeland-Judea and Samaria-Land of Israel, and reducing Israel into a tiny indefensible enclave that could easily be destroyed by the dark forces.

Yaron IS a man of limited capabilities. He does not like the Lieberman plan because it will strength the jewish majority in the state of Israel Yaron prefers two arab terrorist states one in Gaza and a second in Judea and samaria, and an ever growing arab minority within the state of Israel. He is concerned about the arabs! How about the Jews?

Liberman and supporters should provide a valid solution not a hyped one based on racisim..

When I taught about the Arab-Israeli conflict years ago, I spent a lot of time looking at the nation/state issue. But while one might assume a prima facie sympathy to Lieberman's proposal, I was struck from the very beginning by a fundamental flaw: People move. Unlike the residency permits of European history, nothing restricts the residents of the Arab Triangle to that location. Any discussion to cede such territories to the Palestinian state would take place over an extended time, giving residents time to move to more permanent "Israeli" locations. We saw exactly the same process in Jerusalem where Arabs, concerned about the security fence, moved to locations safely on the Israeli side. In the end, Lieberman's plan could result in a loss of valuable territory while Israel keeps its Arab residents.

They get Arab towns, and Israel gets the settlement blocs.

"We cannot implement it without their agreement". Yaron London doesn't say why. "Without tearing apart the state’s map". Israel's big problem right now is that it doesn't have recognized borders. It's a pity that Yaron London didn't suggest something better; but that would require a lot more thought than just knocking somebody else's ideas.

Annex all the settlements near the border (about 80% of the settler population), and give away the entire Triangle and Arab areas of Wadi Ara.

The "redraw borders" option always seemed bizarre to me, as the areas in question (Umm Al Fakhm, Baka al Gharbiya, Jat, etc; or at least those alluded to), are, in fact right along the almost narrowest points of the 67 lines, near the central-northern West Bank/J&S. This is unless, of course, Lieberman also intends ripping the heart out of the Galilee. So, where exactly will the border be redrawn further west, without making Central/Northern Israel a patchwork of intertwined "local councils" masquerading as nation-states, or effectively dividing Israel North & South? In other words, does he want to convert the "Auschwitz borders" into "Bergen-Belsen borders"? I, like many of a certain era, studied Arabic (not very well!), worked with Arabs in both construction & agriculture, & had plenty, if not continuous contact. I don't wish them ill, nor do I wish to "occupy" (BS), or have a higher social caste, BUT EVERYWHERE ON EARTH, there are poorer, less educated, somewhat disenfranchised who work, live, & advance according to their personal abilities, within a somewhat "foreign" or "alien" society. It's been done for thousands of years. Do white, middle class, American Southerners particularly like poor black farmers? Do Quebecois of "aristocratic French descent" like beer swilling "English" Canadians? Do "cultured" Northern Italians like "uncouth" Sicilians? Etc, etc. No, but they get along, because the State they are in forces them to, by law enforcement in a civil society. The last 150-200 years has been a process of AMALGAMATION of kingdoms & fiefdoms, whether in Italy, Germany, the US, Mexico, or any other country you name. Now, “diplomats” are trying to FRAGMENT a tiny, resource poor, semi barren country, to create some kind of doomed, stillborn, "Frankenstine". IMO, the "2 state solution" is simply, factually, analytically, & feasibly one of the most impractical, unrealistic, & idiotic plans ever devised, by a bunch of fantasizing, self delusionary, self flagellating (mainly) Jews, to punish themselves with, in their aspirations to be "perfect humanists". To IMPORT the PLO was like inviting your local violent, psychopathic, kleptomaniac, drug dealing ganglord into your home, along with his friends & relatives, to prove how "tolerant” & "liberal" you are. At some stage (preferably, before a massive, “air clearing” war), there will be: * Israeli annexation & control up to the Jordan, with WB semi autonomy, residency &/or citizenship with Jordan or Israel; * Israeli & Jordanian control of borders; * A defined, 5-15 year path to citizenship of either country, based on age, clean police/terror records, national service, paying tax, etc; * A defined path to local citizenship for "refugees" already in other Arab countries; I do know: * The more the US & EU blunder around (with their hidden agendas); intrusively, clumsily, & destructively, the more likely that there will be a major war; * That war will have massive civilian & infrastructure damage; * It will create further fragmentation in the ME (unless Israel "wins big"); * The US, EU, Russia, etc (despite declarations) are all actively seeking to keep the ME a fragmented, barely under control pressure cooker ("divide & conquer" hasn't gone out of fashion), for their own purposes; * The results of the next war will spread much further, & inevitably (if indirectly) affect them A LOT MORE than they anticipate. IMO, the best thing that Israel can do now is to say: "Sorry, we have reached the end of our willingness to dance with this stupidity. We are walking away-call us when you are rational". Better yet, let the PLO Tunis Generation die out, & Obama be impeached. Every negotiation has a "Deal breaker" point, & for Israel, it is now. You can't stitch silk purse agreements (or borders) with sow's ear components. Phew! Now, for my next encore...

Lieberman's plan is flawed, but is many times better than the London/Barak/Livni/Saudi plan. London does not mention the real reason it is flawed. Most Arabs (Israeli citizens and residents of Judea and Samaria) are good people who are victims of the Leftist / Islamist alliance. If there was no "Peace Process" there would have already been peace and coexistence. The real question is does Lieberman believe in his plan, or did he formulate it just to prove how bad the alternative is.

It was nice to see Yaron London's disspassionate comments on Lieberman's plan. Nevertheless it is London's reasoning that is flawed. Redrawing the borders of a state does not require the permission of all it's citizens. Borders have redrawn through out history, including here in the middle east. Facts on the ground will determine where people will work, and many will need to find new work.The "Little Triangle" that Lieberman talks about is not just getting 250, 000 Jews for 250,000 Arabs. It is eliminating land that houses a hostile population and is a threat to travel north. Just ask anyone who has needed to travel through Wadi Ara during Arab turmoil.Lieberman's plan is realistic .

There are two obviously wrong points in London's article. First I do not see why we can not disregard the opinion of 1/5 of the population if 4/5 will support. Note when we were giving away territories before we disregards much larger chunks of population, so if it was OK disregard opinion of the people who supported settlements then it should be OK disregard opinion of Israeli Arabs now. The second point which is wrong is that he completely no paying attention how Lieberman's plan frightened Arabs. By putting forward this plan Liberman puts pressure on other side which is great negotiating tactics. You do not need to follow his plan you need to use it to put pressure on Palestinians in order to get better final deal

All of the talkbacks here have pointed out flaws in Lieberman's plan that are essentially different versions of the same problem - Israeli Arabs won't cooperate. What's the solution? Apply the draft to them in exactly the same manner that it applies to Jewish Israelis. Those who genuinely want to be patriotic Israelis can and will move to an area that Israel will retain. As IDF veterans, they will be welcomed. Those who consider themselves Palestinians will move as quickly as they can to an area Israel is giving up to avoid the draft. Good riddance to them. Those who refuse to either and decide to riot instead can be arrested and deported to Gaza.

Most of the critics are just yelling Fascist etc because it was said by Lieberman, without actually referring to anything he said.

Loosers, whom you represent, are not relevent. Let"s give a chance to Liberman. Most of Israelis think it is a worth try.

Rich Arab or poor Arab, why would any of them want to be governed by the crooks in Ramallah? Or worse yet, why would any of them want to be subjugated by Hamas (aka the "democratically elected government of the PA)??? I've never put the question directly to any Arabs I know, but my guess is that they'd look at me funny and question by sanity for even asking the question. Israeli Arabs suffer from discrimination (a fact that too many of my fellow citizens actively ignore), but do indeed have a very high standard of living that they could not dream of maintaining under the PA. Lieberman's plan is a great political tool to be used in the negotiations. It's smart, along the lines of Rabin's idea that 'the amount of withdrawal from the Golan will be commensurate with the amount of peace with Syria" (I'm paraphrasing, but you get my drift). Just like the Syrians would never agree to full peace with Israel in return for the Golan, the Israeli Arabs would never agree to be handed over to a cash hungry and corrupt PA. (For Syria, full peace would mean full open trade with Israel, open borders, and Israeli tourists crowding the shuk in Damascus - I can't see them ever agreeing)

those who wish for the Jewish states destruction stay as residents and become "citizens" of palestine-Jordan. Jordan is 78% of palestine mandate land and its populations is 80% "phillistinian". simple.

Just wanted to let you know how much I appreciated your thoughtful and intelligent comments. It's obvious that you've spent a good deal of time in deciphering the problems, in explicating how we might overcome them and explaining what might our attitude be in carrying out successful plans. I hope, of course, that you continue to publish on these Talkbacks.

See ISRAEL DEMOGRAPHY 2000 -2004 by ARNON SOFFER 2005. See especially the chapter "THE DISENGAGEMENT - Advantages & Disadvantages" (From page 32 and Map #4) UM -EL- FAHUM, BAKAA & JAT, as well as TAYBE which are today part of Israel, should become part of the PALESTINIAN TERRITORY in exchange for some Israeli settlements East of the "Green Line" ALL THE RESIDENTS OF THESE MUSLIM TOWNS WILL NO LONGER BE ISRAELI CITIZENS , BUT SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO CONTINUE AT THEIR PLACES OF WORK IN ISRAEL IF THEY SO WISH Also those Arabs from BAKAA, JAT and TAYBE who have fields West of Route #6, should be allowed to continue working their land.