Opinion
What a ridiculous move
Dov Weissglass
Published: 11.10.10, 00:46
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1. "I pledge allegiance to the flag ..
shadoil ,   Jerusalem   (10.11.10)
of the United States of America, and to its republic for which it stand one nation under G-d with liberty and justice for all." One of the most beautiful pledges in the world. I hope the Israelis pledge will be just as beautiful!
2. What about the Arab Republics of Syria & Egypt?
Joe ,   Ramat Gan   (10.11.10)
What rights to Copts, Assyrians, Circassians, Jews and other non-Arabs have in those countries? Do these same ethnic groups work the way the Zoabis and Tibis do in our Knesset? Contrary to what you write, Mr. Weissglass, there is a practical meaning to this oath - to pressure the Zoabis, Tibis and Zahalkas of our country to act in the best interest of our nation, its institutions and ALL of its citizens. Kol haKavod to Israel Beteinu, their foresight and their courage!
3. Another freeze is underway, this stupid law is to divert
tanya ,   tel aviv israel   (10.11.10)
public attention.
4. Will Michael Ben-Ari sign a pledge to uphold the law
Avi ,   Israel   (10.11.10)
rather like the pledge MK Michael Ben-Ari signed when becoming a member of the knesset, which cleraly states in black and white that he is duty bound to uphold the law of Israel. Yet this thug that uses his knesset immunity to disrigard any law he chooses, incites violence and fans the flames of hatred towards Israel`s minorites. He flaunts the very laws he pledged as an MK to uphold. Lets see him sign this pledge first shall we.
5. #2, #4, this law is for NEW citizens only.
tanya ,   tel aviv israel   (10.11.10)
6. It is so that people who act against the Jewish State can
michael redbourn ,   Arad Israel   (10.11.10)
have their citizenship withdrawn. Israelis that break blockades; take part in anti-Israel demonstrations; travel to enemy States without permission; etc They will have their citizenship withdrawn and they will be deported. Israeli Arab MK Hanin Zuabi is an example of somebody that works against the Jewish State.
7. Dov Weissglass is not wise for sure.
Israeli 2   (10.11.10)
If that is the case, then our government has no right to demand the Arabs to recognize Israel as a Jewish State either...and once Israel is not Jewish, then what is it? Answer: It is not Israel. Yeah! Score one for the leftist! LOL
8. What a ridiculous "state" you're becoming !
Salma ,   Palestine   (10.11.10)
In the future Hamas would force WB settlers to pledge allegiance to Palestine as an Islamic and democratic state!!! Please don't complain OR Misunderstand...okay. Ynet, It's indeed just a prediction :(
9. Why blame the Interior Ministry ?
BENJAMIN ,   SINGAPORE   (10.11.10)
If you are to argue that the basic law of Israel is not the essence of Israel Constitutional law , you are an idiot ! It is not that you don’t know that all these years these laws deals with affair concerning the formation and governs the role of states institution , and of course the relation between the state authorities as you already know. As such that includes interior ministry legislations. These originates to protect civil rights and these laws been used on daily basis by the judiciary as a formal constitution of the Nation Israel in term s of interpretation and enforcement. It is not that you don’t know that the Israeli laws applies the uncodified constitution as a formal document in evolution from the 14 May 1948 as the spirit and intention of the formal declaration of independence. Subject to the status quo ,the laws are formulation an adoption of a form a constitution before 1 Oct 1948. It is not that you don’t know about the resolution 181 ? Well the General Assembly Resolution 181 propagated the establishment of a JEWISH STATE! Of course you can’t make emphatic denials that the setting during those days were WAR with the Arabs states. Of course you can’t claim not to know that the religious Jews opposed the whole idea of having a written constitution that would superseded the religious law . the torah, Talmud and the Shulkhan Arukh. And The Harari Declaration of the first Knesset drafted the peace meal between the Knesset Constitutional Law and the Justice jumbos. As such various pieces of legislation that immerged from the various political task and structure has been embodied as law. It is called constitutional ascendancy to the basic law of Israel. From these came basic laws on the Knesset ( 1958, the lands of Israel 1960, the president of the State ( 1964). The Govt ( 1968. The economy ( 1975) ,The best the Military (1976). The Jerusalem Law (1980), the Judiciary ( 1984) the State Comptroller ( 1988). The Human dignity and Liberty ( 1992) The qualification of Ministers (1992), FREEDOM OF OCCUPATION ( 1992) and THE GURANTEES OF FREEDOM OF OCCUPATION. AND SUBJECT TO ALL THESE LAW THE GOVT OVERTURNED THE 1992 LAW And RESTORED THE 1968 SYSTEM WITH AMENDMENTS SO WHY YOU FUSS ABOUT THE INTERIOR MINISTRY FORM ????? THINK ! BTW I learned all these from the University of Singapore- faculty of law-as Manasseh Meyer Boys , and boys of the LKW School of Public Policy , we get commended and persecuted too :-)
10. Are these people going to honor an oath
Ilan ,   Ariel   (10.11.10)
For the most part this law is directed at a population that will have no problem in an oath, since they will not ever mean to honor it in the first place.
11. such a feable article
M.Oliver ,   Tel Aviv   (10.11.10)
12. #8: In the future there will be no Hamas
Israeli 2   (10.11.10)
because they will be either so scared to admit that they are or swimming far away across the Mediteranean.
13. #8 - private fantasies are best kept - well, private ;-)
michael redbourn ,   Arad Israel   (10.11.10)
14. The Words "Jewish" And "Democracy" Are Oxymoronic Together
World Citizen ,   the world   (10.11.10)
You cannot have a democracy for all the citizens of Israeli if a large percentage of them are not Jewish. Obviously Israeli-Palestinian people living inside Israel do not have the same rights, tax rates and opportunties afforded Jewish citizens of Israel. Basically Israel is at the same place in history as the United States was in the 1950s. It also sounds like the first step in the process of expelling all Israeli-Palestinians into Jordon, Lebanon or Egypt. Israel is clearly on the path of a fascist state if they institute this alligence oath. Other countries have pursued this road and we know what happened to them.
15. Loyalty is a Must
Brod ,   USA   (10.11.10)
There is nothing ridiculous about Loyalty Oath. Becoming a citizen in America requires a Loyalty Oath. It is a universal requirement.
16. The words "World Citizen" are for a moron
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (10.11.10)
Having foreigners coming on this site and thinking that they have any say in the internal affairs of our country is moronic. Because we get racists #14 spewing his lies and disinformation. Israel is the only nation of this planet who does not have an oath for immigrants. The only one, yet for one to even be suggested we are accused for being fascists. Guess that makes us the only non-fascist state on the planet.
17. This is an intermittent step towards a
Robert Haymond ,   Israel/Canada   (10.11.10)
principle which should be adopted in a much needed constitution. As far as a loyalty oath, I grew up pledging allegiance everyday in elementary school to the United States of America. Every nation has a right to demand that of its own citizens. There should be no controversy about Israel doing so. The Jewish nature of the state simply makes acknowledgement of what we are and aspire to be. I suppose that's an embarrassment to the author of this piece and to the welter of Israeli faux liberals who think "liberalism" has no boundaries whatsoever and that "imposing" a definition on the state which doesn't jive with their perfectly secular mindset is an abomination. In fact, true "liberalism" has more to do with whether or not we treat all our citizens with respect while demanding of them an adherence to our laws and principles. For the "faux" liberal, it's all about obtaining his/her own unmitigated rights (as he/she interprets them) but never being required to give anything (to the state) in return. In other words, it is the mindset of an adolescent before he/she grows up. As I continue on in my exploration of current western political discourse, I am more and more struck by this shocking phenomenon of immaturity, especially as I see how it has infiltrated everyday behavioural functioning and how much influence it has had. We can now view the change to a more suitable mature outlook as it's happening, however, not only in Israel but in the USA and Europe as well. To appreciate this, you only have to look at the increasing popularity of Avigdor Lieberman in Israel, the rapidly decreasing respect for O'Bama in the USA and the change in the political balance in western European countries where unfettered multiculturalism has led democratic nations into a stinkhole. A more vociferous population of "anti-liberals" are demanding to take back their respective cultures in the face of the highjacking by Islamic forces while the liberal establishment has either applauded or simply looked on with approval.
18. Well said!!!!!!
(10.11.10)
Its time to seperate state & religion like every Democracy.....Israel open your eyes ,its time to join the 21st century 10 years later....you can not be a Democracy/theocracy....people should practice their religion at home or their Beit Knesset, Church or Mosque....YAIR LAPID FOR PRIME MINISTER!!!!!!!!
19. to 8 Salma
(10.11.10)
You are right, Jews that decide to live in the Westbank and Inshalla there will be peace and they decide to stay in the WB then they should be loyal to the Palestinians....
20. Loyalty, yes, but lets get some rights first
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (10.11.10)
Israel has no constitution, and one of the results is that we Israelis - both Arabs and Jews - have almost no civil rights. Do I want to pledge my loyalty to a country that denies my right to legal counsel if I'm arrested? Do I want to be loyal to a system that can hold me in jail and deny my lawyer access to the evidence against me on "security" grounds? Do I pledge loyalty to a country that forces me to fight in the army (not that I personally object) and jails me if I refuse, but then takes my tax money and pays it to other citizens to stay out of the army? Israel first needs a constitution and electoral reform - direct election of all elected officials and get rid of or downsize the proportional representation system. If the country can't guarantee my rights as a citizen, who are they to demand my loyalty?
21. Actually...
jerri i ,   NYC   (10.11.10)
It would make more sense to have every Jewish immigrant and Jewish Israeli to take such a vow. Our enemies would gleefully take such a vow and then not observe it. This was certainly true in the reign of Mohammad. Incidentally our biggest problem is with Jews who are trying to appease the world and the U.S.
22. problems & solutions
Michael Storch ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (10.11.10)
A country with a loyalty oath has a problem that a loyalty oath cannot solve.
23. #2. Joe.
k1w1 ,   NZ   (10.11.10)
What do the "Copts, Assyrians, Circassians, Jews and othe non-Arabs... in the Arab Republics of Syria & Egypt" have to do with the rights of miinorities in Israel? Are you saying, if it's OK for Syria and Egypt to do it then it's OK for Israel too? Strange that so many Israelis want Israel to be compared to places like Syria, Sudan, Burma, North Korea... Do you want Israel to more like those places? "See, we're not as bad as them!" What a childish refrain.
24. #23 - k1w1, Speaking of childish refrains...
Joe ,   Ramat Gan   (10.12.10)
... hyperbole much? Speaking of Israel becoming like Syria, my parents were born there and ethnically cleansed from the country in the '40's. If you think Syria's a bad place now (and it is!), you should have seen things prior to the rise of the Assads. This being said, however, every civilized western country has oaths and pledges of allegiance, including NZ. The US pledge even adds religion into the mix with the phrase "under G-d". This might not jive with your utopian view of how things should work, but citizenship is not a right, but a privilege granted by a sovereign state and this privilege is subject to conditions decided upon by that sovereign state. Israeli Arabs who fundamentally object to living in a Jewish state are more than welcome to leave. It's not as if there aren't 2 officially Arab states that border the country. Unlike Assad, we don't force Arabs to post onerous bonds and leave behind family members to ensure return, essentially keeping citizens as prisoners within their own country.
25. #24. Joe,
k1w1 ,   NZ   (10.12.10)
I’m sorry to hear about what happened to your parents. That was wrong. However, I’m not sure what your point is about Syria and the Assads… I think your post is probably just another typical over-reaction to something that you’ve wrongly perceived to be a criticism or slight of your beloved Israel - don‘t worry, you're not the only one doing that, it happens all the time here. I’ve never compared Israel to Syria or Egypt, and I certainly didn’t do so on this thread. That was you! But, again, don’t worry; lots of you prickly Israelis do that, too! Yes, civilised countries have oaths and pledges of allegiance, including NZ. And, yes, you’re right about the US throwing in the phrase “under God”, but I wonder which “God” is being referred. Is it the Christian “God”? The Jewish “God”? The Muslim “God”? It doesn’t really say which “God”, does it? And I’m fairly certain that the NZ pledge doesn’t require an oath of loyalty to any sort of “Christian” state of NZ, though NZ could be said to be a predominately Christian country. Here’s another thing that doesn’t happen in NZ. When NZ compares, say, its appalling rates of child abuse, it doesn’t choose a league of the worst countries and say, “Well, compared to Angola…”. No, it compares itself to the best in the world, compares itself to the OECD. So, maybe next time you feel the inclination to compare Israel with another country, or league of countries, you should try doing that, compare it to a higher league. It makes for a braver, more honest assessment, eh - assuming, of course, you consider Israel is even worthy of being included in the OECD, or any other civilised league. And speaking of assuming: That would be what you did when you wrote that silly little comment about something not jiving with my “utopian view of how things should work”. In this instance, I think you may be confusing some “utopian view of how things should work” with what’s actually expected of a so-called civilised country. Again, don’t worry, that also happens often in Israel…
26. Law should also require that those claiming to be Jews...
Eliezer Ben Yehuda ,   The Home of the Jews   (10.12.10)
....adhere fully to Jewish law. The oath should be taken by all Israelis and demand that those who declare themselves to be Jews swear to abide by Jewish/Talmudic Law or be deemed legally to be non-Jews in the new Jewish democratic state.
27. k1w1 #25 just the facts
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (10.12.10)
The country with the most liberal immigration policy on the planet is this one. Not the EU, not the US, nor Canada, nor even the so-called 'civilized' colony of New Zealand. That is an undisputable fact. So when and if your country matures enough to be comparable to us then and only then will you have anything to say that means anything at all. We can do whatever we want on immigration policy because that is our right. Anybody that doesn't like it doesn't have to immigrate here. It's simple enough for even a moron to understand.
28. #27. Gee. Settle down, mate…
k1w1 ,   NZ   (10.12.10)
That nice to know, about Israel’s wonderfully liberal immigration policy compared to everyone else, but what does Israel’s immigration policy have to do with anything I’ve written here? Gee, you appear to be another one of those prickly Israelis who has perceived a criticism of Israel where none ever existed, and now, you’re jumping up and down and spraying about all sorts of silly, baseless accusations without actually considering what anyone has actually said - which is typical on these threads. The only criticism I’ve offered here, is of people who compare Israel - apparently in a vain attempt to put Israel in a better light - to second-rate countries like Syria or Egypt or Sudan etc. That’s alright, if you consider Israel to also be a second-rate country and in the same league as those places. Is that what you think, that Israel is a second-rate country? Or do you, rather, think Israel should be compared to more mature, more civilised countries like NZ and Turkey and others from the OECD? You see, Gee, when I see people compare Israel to those second-rate countries I think, they must consider Israel to be a second-rate country, too. And, if I professed to love Israel, I would consider that an insult and a severe criticism of Israel. So, perhaps I care more for Israel’s image than people like Joe et al., who evidently consider Israel to be a second-rate country.
29. Weissglass is talking commonsense.
Johnboy ,   Sydney, Australia   (10.15.10)
Weissglass correctly points out that Israeli law simply DESCRIBES Israel as "a Jewish state" without actually DEFINING what that phrase means. And without that definition then that description is meaningless, and so is any oath of affirmation to that meaningless description. Here's a start: pass a Basic Law changing the name of your state to the "Halachic state of Yisrael", and then go from there. THEN you can demand that the goys pledge loyalty to that state......
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