Either you genuenly want peace ,then get on with it , if you only want land say so and continue as you already do.If the latter ,then prepere for another war, in whatever form.

If Arabs agree to non-Judaic state, then a) they've never agreed to a Judaic state and insisting on it would nullify everything and require starting over--which Baraq knows and is counting on b) Baraq hopes to use this diversion to persuade the Right to agree to this end of a Judaic state. A disgusting maneuver! Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer: Teimani, Baladi, Dor Dai Jew Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority www.netzarim.co.il Welcoming All Torah-reverers (Jews & non-Jew geirim)

The puppeteers must have told Barak that he must start working more hard against Israel! Shame on Barak! And also on Bibi, who is blind about this person's unimportance!

We don't need de Gaulle or Churchill. What we need now is for Ehud Barak to leave public life. We need to investigate his part in the murder of Madhat Yussuf. We need to investigate the source of his wealth. We need to investigate why he was let-off so easy for illegally hiring a maid.

Concentrate on the subject and not on the insignificant !!!Think big for a change .

Please resign. You are not wanted, you must be the most disliked politician in Israel. No one wants to listen to your crap anymore. You should be wearing a clown-suit, you over-stuffed opportunist. How a serial bungler like you is still in any position of authority is a scandal, positive proof of just how dysfunctional our political system is. Personally, I question your loyalty to the State, you're close to being considered a traitor, most certainly, an agent of a foreign gov't. at the very least.

Can someone tell me why both Abbas and Netanyahu attach so much importance to Israel as a Jewish state. What would it mean to recognise Israel as something other than a Jewish state?

You haven,t been paying attention Geoff as recognition by the Palestine/Arab world of the Jewish state of Israel ,a Jewish state,i repeat would nullify the right of return for so called Palestinian refugees ,who were ordered to flee at the onset of the 1948 War of Indep endence ,by their own leadership ,simple logic matey ,wakey wakey ?

It's not the time to insist on recognition. Not the time to build. Not the time to argue over land. Not the time to argue over anything. It IS the time to release all terrorists in the hope that maybe we'll see Gilad Shalit. It IS the time to pull back to 1948. It IS the time to agree to the "return" of Palestinian "immigrants". It IS the time to close the shop and hand over the state in the hope that the Arabs will keep a job open for Ehud Barak. It's enough to make you vomit.

Ehud Barak is said to have been a very good soldier. A man among med when "Rangering Up" was called for. But to me, a generally cautious and analytical person, who hav also been operational, this man appears to actually be pretty much of a dolt. NOT too overly smart. Not the sharpest knife in the drawer. In other words, a person whose basic decisions in most published stories(since, as almost everyone else, I do not know first hand of statements and positions) indicate he is a much flawed person when it comes to thing, and the results of his statements may have vis a vis his nation, and it's survival. In other words, a true polititurd; a putz.

OK, how about this: Arab leaders, including Abbas and Ahmad Tibi (on Israel radio in Hebrew), have explained why they refuse to recognize Israel as a Jewish state. Tibi said that such recognition would mean the end of conflict and an end to the Arab demand for flooding whatever Jewish state is left over with Arab immigrants. Given that Barak isn't stupid and that he also must have heard the Arab leaders, how do you explain why he does not care about this issue?

Whats the point of talking peace, if the Arabs wont accept ISraels existence?

I'll explain it briefly. Jews are not just a religion, we are a people, a nationality. You can be completely secular, not religious, & still be a Jew. The importance of recognizing Israel as the State of the Jewish people has many aspects. One, it is a recognition of our legitimacy here, something the Arabs deny. Second, it implies an end to all further territorial claims, in effect, an end to the conflict. Third, it means that the question of Palestinian refugees must be settled only within a Palestinian state, not Israel. In Europe, many of you do not believe in nationalism, you do not believe in an ethnic state. Personally, I think this multi-culturalism is a major mistake on the part of ''progressive'' Europeans. In other words, I am saying that we Jews have a right to collective survival in a country of our own. I don't think that's too difficult to understand. The problem here is that the Arabs do not seek peace or coexistence but rather our elimination, they cannot reconcile themselves to any Jewish presence in the region. To their way of thinking, there can be no sovereign Jewish state.

With a de Gaulle mentality Israel is erased from the earth. Israel needs a Churchill. Ehud Barak is extremely dangerous for Israel. The little loser and retreat specialist Napoleon Barak needs to be removed from power in Israel ,the sooner the better. Keep him far away from power if Israel is to remain among the land of the living .

He is such a defeatist!

to insist on barak resignation from the government he is nothing to dictate the government policy barak just go home and enough is enough

Barak: the peace scam at its best.

I think you can debate the pro's and con's, and Barak may be right about the timing. But I think the point has been made. It has proved to the world that the Arabs in general do not accept or recognize Israel. That was important information, it revealed the true nature of Arabs feelings, their leaders simply could not accept that, or the "Arab street" would have revolted on their leaders. So the secret...which was really no secret...it out, how most Arabs feel about Israel. They do not accept Israel right to exist. But I do agree it does not have to be agreed to now. BiBi should continue the negotiations without their ( the Arab) acceptance of Israel as a Jewish state. BiBi has already accomplished his goal, showing the true feeling of the people he is negotiating with. By continuing the talks without getting his way is just another concession by Israel to the Arabs. I believe it is good PR for Israel to show they are not as stubborn as the people they deal with, and gives them a additional card to play in the negotiation process. Because now the Arabs owe Israel a concession.

. The prime minister should get rid of this defeatist defense minister .

barak's judgement is terrible. He says the palestinians went a huge change in the 902. No they didn't. They still think the same-they want israel gone. And he says what is needed is a de gaulle over churchill because he gave up algeria. Well Israel can also give up the west bank and then rockets wil hit tel aviv and ben gurion airport and what will israel do then> The UN will do nothing and barak will do nothing. Ask the 2 dead soldiers who were lynched in ramallah what barak did. Ask hezbollah what barak did when he left lebanon and they were kidnapping israeli soldiers. Finally, when you negotiate, you do not make concessions up front which is what he does out of weakness and what olmert does, even though he has negotiation experience. The only explanation is that both barak and olmert, though from 2 different backgrounds are israeli defeatists, one a failed land general who ran from lebanon like a chicken without a head, and the other, the number one coward in the history of israel.

You miss the point. The debate about recognizing Israel as a Jewish state is not what is stalling the talks. Netanyahu is still willing to talk, without it. He is tying recognition to a building freeze only. The Arabs are refusing to talk. They are the ones setting the pre-conditions, having missed the boat when there was a freeze, probably on purpose. And Barak is doing exactly what they want - getting off the topic of TALKS.

De Galle would have demanded that recognition as a PRECONDITION and he would never have started negotiations without it. It is way past time that we demanded the recognition. The Arabs have nothing else to offer. We made a huge mistake under that idiot Rabin of getting nothing for huge concessions and allowing the Arabs to violate every single provision of the treaties that they did sign. No now is the time to demand everything that we were suppose to get with Oslo I and then II and then Wye River. Barak still seems to believe that he is both the PM and FM. Dump this looser and get somebody with a brain in there.

#7 Geoff, London I would like to amplify what Terry has stated. While the modern state of Israel was established in 1948, the Jewish People's connection to the land of Israel goes back 2000 years and before. During this Diaspora, Jews have prayed daily for a return to our land. In more recent times, Jews were involved in collecting funds to purchase land in Eretz Israel, in going there to build-up the land and in political activity to establish there a land for the Jewish People. In the Balfour Declaration, your government recognized "Palestine" as the national home of the Jewish People. All this work was not done to create a state, to be like other states without connection to Jewish sovereignty and Jewish culture.

needs to change all state / official letterheads, documents, stamps, legal tender (notes, coins, whatever) websites etc to what the country is to be called ie the Jewish State of Israel. Israel does not have to ask anybody's permission to call itself what it wants and should just go ahead and make the changes.