Stay out of my bedroom !!!!

And you are prude. Sue me?

That's what happen when you graduate from 3rd world Sash education system. You say stupid things and can't think rationally. We don't want Israel to have a 3rd country birth rate. We don't need masses of ignorant useless haredi children. Iasrael is already on of the mose dense countries in the developed world. You (haredim) stop your irresponsible procreation rate!

The avrage birth per woman in a western country today is around 1.5 and the fact this is lower then 2.1 means they slowly die out, if you take the muslim immigration out of acount then the real number is even lower. In Israel the Arab Israeli birth per woman rate is around 3.6 were the Jewish Israeli one is around 2.9 while the secular Jews have around 2.7. Unlike the others we can gladly say we produce enough to NOT die out and even more, we can ensure our Jewish majority for a long long time, unlike the other countries that will turn Muslim in around 50 years. Remember arab Israelis still produce more then Israeli ones so #3 yes a higher Jewish Birth rate would only be a good thing and especially if its secular Jewish cas that's the most productive one (with no offense to the ortodox ones, just stating a fact here).

They don't even recognize the state, they don't contribute anything.....he is just afraid the FREE LUNCH will be over

Yes, let's everyone have more kids than we can afford to provide for. That makes a whole lot more sense than ending the subsidization of the Haredi lifestyle. "Those who think haredim study in yeshivot only to evade military service are completely wrong. The reason for the high demand for religious education is because the public education system lacks Jewish values," he said. Right, that's the reason. Stick a mussar course in there, and the black hats will flock to Hebrew U and Bar Ilan - right after they do their three years in the military.

We can't compete with the Arab population in Israel. That's not the path we should take because we don't have enough territory in Israel to be a nation of 30 millions. Israel Is one of the smallest countries in the world, and as I've said already one of the most dense. Where exactly do you propose that we put all the masses that the haredim give birth to? There's a difference between being a nation that is getting older and smaller because of birth rate that is too low and being a nation with an exploding population way out of control. 10-12 children per family?! that's what we need in order for Israel not to vanish? Pleaseeee... Regarding the Arab population in Israel, we need to stop giving finantial incentives to parents to have more and more children. Because of the haredi parties, parents can stay home and not work at all and live on the money they get from bituach leumi as long as they have a huge number of children, These benfits go to the Arab population as well of course, incouraging them as the haredim to bring more and more children. So we need to stop that. Also once the Israeli Arabs get more integrated into the Israeli society and their socio-economic status rise, they will start bring less children. That's how it always goes.

with 7 children parents receive some 1400 sh. Try to live from this .

8000 cute falah shmura.

Israel is NOT the smallest country and if you need more room try to look into the Negev, Galili or the Golan hights. All 3 of those places have almost no population and its a shame, in fact soon beduins and Sudanese will be the majority of the Negeve. Try to look at the population map, almost all Israel lives in the center and the rest of Israel is almost deserted. Did you know the Negev is about 45% of Israel and has only about 600,000 population? For Arab integration lol, not going to happen soon but if you think integration justifies them making the majority of Israel then read the facts again and pay attention to what the majority of them wants to do with this country if they could. Also no need to make 12 kids but 3 or 4 will be of great value to the country and our Jewish race.

its too late to help out with the birthrate.

but we are too fat :(

Only someone from Shas could come out with such a ridiculous statement. As if people should bring children in to this world to swell the numbers based on a rascist belief. Everyday we hear the most horrific child abuse and murders. Quite obvioulsy not everyone is meant to be parents.

Those of us who are a bit superannuated can still contribute to another generation of children of Israel. The older generation is wiser and more patient than the generation that is having babies. We can help care for children and give guidance to new parents. That helps parenting be more fun, and parenting being fun helps parents want to have more kids!

Here we go again about the hilonim and haredim being at each others throats.I agree its no ones business what people do in their bedrooms and its not anyones position to tell other how many children they should or shouldn't have. I'm religious but not haredi. I applaud their intentions to sustain the Jewish population. Having said that, I have my own concerns to worry about and I am not happy about supporting those with my tax Shekels because they are not financially able to provide for their 10+ kids. Its not only a charedi problem. There are Russian and African immigrants (some of whom are not living in Israel legally) that we have to take care of as well. So here is my advice to the Haredim: Get some sort of vocational training or education towards a career before you get married.This way you won't have to strain your parents and in in laws who have their children to put through life. Learn how to be more financially independent and responsible. Base your decisions on whats best for you and do not let others determine that for you. Hilonim: They don't like the fact that haredim get married young and have children right away. Instead they take a couple years off to go gallanting around the world and partying. I notice that a lot of them don't work either. I am also not thrilled to have my tax money fund their wild frat parties and orgies either (excuse me for being so blunt).They only decide to "grow up" when they are in they are pushing forties and by that time, their fertility doesn't want to play by their rules. Maybe the best thing would be for them is to settle down at an earlier age than 35 and maybe have more kids than just 1 per family in order to balance out the Jewish demographics. As far as I am concerned about the Arabs, they should have more abortion clinics and access to birth control subsidized by the PA government.

Haredi medieval superstition is not Judaism and it never has been; that is why the Vilna Gaon ex-commuted the Hassidim, who turned to the Gnosticism of the Kabalah (which is NOT Jewish in the least!! also: No one should have kids unless they can afford them! NO one should refuse to work for a living and pay taxes for the greater good of the State No one should live on public welfare when they are capable of working NO one should deny their children a proper education because they want to ghettoize them in ignorance!

you probably haven't even been to Tel Aviv or if so, maybe once in your life. Tel Aviv- tis a city of WORKING people, no one lives off your pathetic taxes! Even the students hold on to jobs so they can pay university tuition - that is why they are protesting the freeloading by haredim! And what do Haredim do? - they "study" superstitious, economically/socially useless topics and don't work; they instead live off the State and meager charity from their families! BTW, there are NO FRAT parties in Israel, which has no Fraternties and there no ORGIES that are subsidized by anyone! Shmilkeh, where were you educated, in a Galitsyaner shtetl ?! - where do you come up with such narishkeit!? As for making children- did you have children just to popular the country, or because you really wanted to have children? By the way, not everyone wants children or need children, in fact, most have children because they are pressured in doing so... Shlimkeh, you should stick to your criticism of Haredim, not the hilonim, who are the ones making sure the country doesn't collapse or get conquered!

If all we do is complain,than you are right,we can not do anyrhing else.There is a time for everything,a time for making children,and a time to give love and advice to grandchildren. When a young couple asks me for advice in a dispute,i tell them,never go in bed without reconciliation.When this advice makes them smile, may be, that with my means, i could YES help out with the birthrate.

Well even if for some of us it is not (I'm fine thanks ;) We become fat, in front of our TV, in our spirit, more attracted by the fallacious pleasure of life than by what makes a live rich and worthy. We have a comfort we don't want to gi up on. We are fat in our brain... What is more beautiful than a big familly ? My gand father had 8 brother and sister, my mother 4 and I have only 2 kids. As Rami suggest (for once I agree with him, all is not lost ;) Have sex! Or, as it is written in the Torah: פרו ורבו

Have you ever thought that both sides are wrong ? "No Torah no bread, no bread no Torah" is the essence. The government should introduce professions to the haredi schoolsw and Torah to the secular schools. f you don`t use either of them once out of school, you will be the one to blame for not understanding each other`s side.

The hebrew way to express it is much nicer

It can even be expressed poetically ... Lo, children [are] an heritage of the LORD: [and] the fruit of the womb [is his] reward. As arrows [are] in the hand of a mighty man; so [are] children of the youth. Happy [is] the man that hath his quiver full of them: they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with the enemies in the gate. (well, this is talking about the result of being fruitful and multiplying - for poetry about the process, see Song of Songs) :D

Nora, you have found exactly the solution! We need to bridge the divide between the two sides, and giving each exposure to each other's learning will pay massive dividends in terms of both being better able to live as part of a Jewish Israel.

Chareidim should both work and study. What they are doing now only causes many people to hate them. And as for more babies: no one has to have 10 or 12 or 20. But it is important to have more than one or two. Otherwise we will die out as a People.

I agree with you that not all the Haredim should only study.But if they do this it is no reason to hate them.Before criticizing others,we better look ,if everything inside us is perfect,and correct that to begin with.I am sure we will be that busy,that we will have any time left to hate others.Quiet the opposite will happen.Let s love each other,and be one big loving family.