Likud MKs who disagree with bibi on the freeze, are appealing to yosef to reverse yishai onabstention. It is a hopeless venture. Josef while a learned man, lacks strength of character and like yishai does things for material advantage for the most part. It is almost confirmed by olmert running to him for a blessing before his prostate operation, as though a blesssing from Joseph would get olmert through. Only a crook like olmert would think that. Joseph sustained olmert in power and in my opinion has nothing to contribute to israel society. he teaches favours, connections and dibursementts. he should better tell his religious flock totake martial arts so they can defend themselves rather than running to the idf for help. Yishai as josef's representative is despicable in his weakness and would cut a deal at the expense of most of israel if it was good for the haredi. Chosen people my rear end.

I did not say they were equivalent. The Freeze is just a means to get Abbas to show up at the talks. To partition Israel. For Israelis the Freeze is an inconvenience but nothing more than a side show, a means of distracting the population while the big robbery takes place behind the scenes. And there's no point in building if Jews are going to lose their land. Some of your other points: 1) After three months nothing will have changed. There is something ominous about this short extension. Three months is all that Obama needs to put the finishing touches to the plan to redraw the borders. Obama would prefer that the Palestinian state was created through an "agreement" rather than through the more contentious Arab unilateral declaration of independence. 2) Gains in US support for defense. How exactly? How are those planes going to help Israel when snipers start shooting at children this side of the border? Or when Gaza launches rockets against Tel Aviv? How is US veto on an Arab unilateral declaration of independence help Israel? Shouldn't the US do that anyway, as a supposed "ally"? Isn't Israel being presented with a choice between being shot and being hanged? If Obama is so sympathetic with Israel's need for defense, why doesn't he do something about Iran? And by the same token, why is he demanding the surrender of the Jordan Valley, an area absolutely necessary for Israel's defense? Why does he continue arming and training a PA army? Why is he showering them with money with absolutely no precondition? Such as a stop to PA TV and school texts that demonize Jews? To be fair, these are not all Obama's policies, they were implemented by his Republican predecesors as well. 3) Continue to assert our rights to Jerusalem. Really? Police are not even allowed to assist Jews who are in danger for their lives in eastern Jerusalem. Police refuse to go to there. 4) Partitioning land in Judea and Samaria. Why? We still haven't received one single good reason for partitioning the country. Not one!!! There will be no peace. A war of attrition will continue forever or until Israel is destroyed by its neighbors. Giving the Jewish heartland away is nothing less than an obscenity. I still have the image of the 1967 fighters' faces engraved in my mind. What a betrayal to think that they offered their lives so that a bureaucratic act would wipe out their heroic achievements. 5) Keeping the Jordan Valley? According to reports is as good as gone. 6) The PM a master of diplomacy? From what I've read he has been caught by surprise every time by US harsh treatment. He has no actual counterproposal. He has stalled in some ways, while capitulating in key areas. Robert, I know you are in favor of partition. This is very unfortunate because you could use your persuasive powers to uphold Israel's rights to the land. Israel needs every voice, every bit of help, considering the way it's being bullied. The bullying will continue and according to the country's present appeasement strategy, it will have to continue surrendering land and sovereignty. The Golan to Syria, then the Galilee, then Dimona, then the rest. To keep throwing land to the crocodile is not a good strategy, Robert. There are other options.

Dear Steve, you are correct. But faith is not enough. Israelis need to take action. That's all I'm saying. The Holocaust was the most painful lesson ever taught to Jews. I believe in a powerful Israel. Not just a land settled by Jews, but a self-respecting country that doesn't tolerate insults from anyone. The motto Don't Mess with Us should be inscribed on the Israeli flag.

You know, I was on here on Ynet many times a day when the GK expulsion was being argued about and implemented. That taught me much, including that foreign influence is NOT what is driving any of this. Rather, as Kissinger said, all Israeli foreign policy is really domestic policy. Israel's secular leaders do not want Judea and Samaria any more than they want the Temple Mount. They gave the latter away the moment they had it. If they could make sure that future Israelis would be seculars like themselves, they wouldn't be trying to unload J & S; but, they know that demographics are against them. The only hope is Medinat Yehudah, which would be a Jewish state alongside the Israeli state. Jews will be much better neighbors than Muslims, after all. And don't kid yourself: Israeli elites may hate and fear Jews, but if they knew that Jews would not try to seize power (being in a separate state), and if they knew that these Jews would deal with the Arabs, they would jump on board. Just remember how St. Rabin thought that the PA would "deal with" the Arabs.

I believe honesty is the best policy. Best to be honest with the Americans rather than play strategic games. Tell the Americans we will not reliquish any more land. Let the chips fall where they may.

Yes, we disagree. I don't believe Judea/Samaria should separate from Israel. On the contrary. Judea must take over Israel. There is no other way for the Jews to survive. Israel has the weaponry, the nukes, the money, the ruthlessness. Settlers have only God on their side and their determination. They don't even have enough guns to defend themselves. Security services have spies everywhere. But be patient. Settlers are raising large families. They are increasing their numbers in the IDF. And the leftist political parties are shrinking. A simple majority vote in the Knesset could cancel the laws that gave such wide powers to the Supreme Court. Electoral reform could follow. A re-allocation of money and revamping of universities could deprive leftists academics and artists of their dominance and pernicious effect on youth and society in general. A more sympathetic US Congress and White House could put pressure on Jordan to take in their former citizens. PA Arabs used to have Jordanian citizenship. Much can be done if Jews develop a long term plan. The population is turning to the political right and prospects are good. Except that there is imminent danger of losing the heartland within a matter of months, and this should be the overriding concern. All the rest can wait. All efforts should be focused on stopping the partition talks. They are fatal. And if Israel and the PA do not reach a final or interim agreement, the PA will declare unilateral independence sanctioned by the UN. The US will abstain or vote in favor. Annexing the land would be impossible after that. Settlers need to stop running around building shacks on hilltops and demanding an end to the Freeze while doing nothing to stop Netanyahu from giving the land away. This is what drives me crazy. The land must be annexed and secured. After that settlers can build to their hearts' content. And plan their future political and cultural takeover of Israel. :-)

You said in #15 that the root of the problem was foreign interference; my point was the the root of the problem was domestic jockeying for power. I don't think foreign governments (in particular the US) are "pressuring" Israel to do anything that its elites do not want to do. I must disagree with you that Judea should take over Israel. There are real differences between "Israelis" and "Jews." The mistake was to insist that these two related but distinct peoples would share power. That is why there really must be two states for two peoples. I think it is a dreadful mistake to believe that the Israelis will simply wait for demographics to turn against them. They will--and are--acting preemptively. This must be halted soon, not when enough Jewish babies grow up. As for the capabilities of Medinat Yehudah, clearly they will need to be developed over time. There is a website (google for "virtual medinat yehudah") that addresses these matters in much depth.