Jewish Scene
Pre-wedding double date
Tzofia Hirschfeld
Published: 15.12.10, 12:31
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1. Forced brainwash
Ron ,   Melbourne, Australia   (12.15.10)
It is amazing that in this day and age one is allowed to force people to listen to religous brainwashing. The couple in the artcile acknowledge that people are coming to them not out of free will but being forced to attend. Shame on them for taking part.
2. #1 - This is a Jewish country
Chaya ,   Tel Aviv   (12.15.10)
This is Jewish tradition. If a couple doesn't want this, they can go to Cyprus to get married, which many do. But most want to get married by a rabbi. Going to the mikveh before the ceremony is a beautiful tradition as is maintaining the family purity laws.
3. Brainwashing?
Ellen ,   Israel/USA   (12.15.10)
Ron--not only is it NOT brainwashing but your saying that it is, that is an insult to the intelligence of the secular couple. Yes, they are required to go--but after that who or what makes them required to ask questions, to engage in dialogue, to learn? Maybe they go because they have to, but they leave with additional knowledge. Going to the mikvah prior to a Jewish marriage in Israel is a requirement. However, the goal is that the couple will go their entire lives! Whether this happens or not is no one's business. Do you realize that in the US there is a huge movement of non-Orthodox using the mikvah. Google non-Orthodox mikvah use--you'll be surprised.
4. #1 you are 100% right
Avi ,   Israel   (12.15.10)
Israel a country that calls itself democratic is anything but democratic. Couples are forced to go through the rabbinute ( yep they never miss a chance to make a buck or two) or to go to Cyprus to have a civil ceremony. This nonsense about couples meeting religious couples is just another chance for religious brainwashing. Family purity my backside !
5. #1 you are wrong
Mike L ,   TA Israel   (12.15.10)
As the 2nd poster said, this is a JEWISH country. So, we do things the JEWISH way. Once we begin to lose those, we will lose ourselves
6. the reason we seculars
david ,   jerusalem   (12.15.10)
'stay and ask questions' is because you need to make believe these brainwashers that you give a f..., let me rephrase that, that you care for what they have to say. You need their signature in the tasks paper, and i believe that if they're not satisfied with you, they can make you come again and again, just like a driving instructor in Israel.
7. they (we) go because
david ,   jerusalem   (12.15.10)
we have to. not everyone has the money to go to cyprus to get married, and much less guests and family members have the time and money required to do so. And about staying and asking questions, that's because you need to make these religious brainwashers believe you are interested in what they have to say, so they'll sign the damn paper. (a piece of paper with tasks you must do, otherwise you can't get married. It's like a jamboree, you go from one station to another collecting signatures)
8. Fairy tales
Shalom hartman   (12.15.10)
BTW holes in sheets are a myth
9. It is a television brainwash antidote.
Ora ,   Jerusalem   (12.15.10)
10. To 9 , and the radio brainwashing ?
Charles ,   Petach Tiukva   (12.15.10)
every weekday morning : Kriath Shema . Every Shabbat : mizmor shir leshabbat . Not to talk about the "rabbanim" with their "kabbalah" or other stupid stuff on TV .
11. David 6 & 7
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (12.15.10)
Seculars go , get married by a rabbi because they don't want their children to have problems later on . Some , after being married in Cyprus , without family or friends , have a feast here , with a form of "religious" wedding , A person i know plays the role of a "rabbi" at such feasts .
12. The fairy tales are not all on one side
BBJ ,   El Cerrito, USA   (12.15.10)
Too many frum Jews believe absolute nonsense about secular Jews. Would it be nice if there was more knowledge between the two groups? Sure. But this program is clearly meant to educate only the poor, benighted secular couples.
13. Shocked
Jew ,   Israel   (12.15.10)
To be honest, I'm amazed at the way this dialogue went. I read the article and was really excited that such a dialogue opportunity was presented to couples. It's a great idea. Many pastors, rabbis, officiants have some sort of couple counseling requirement, Israel has only a meeting of a bunch of seculars who don't want to listen to a religious person tell them why their being asked to do these things that are a mandatory part of a Jewish wedding ceremony. What a great opportunity, you want a Jewish wedding in Israel, so why not go talk to someone who has been married and can appreciate the steps involved instead of spreading more ridiculous horror stories of the trauma of being married in the Jewish State. Kudos to Tel Aviv, this makes sense.
14. People are different
David ,   Hemed, Israel   (12.15.10)
Just as the two members of a couple are different from each other, so not all "seculars" are the same, and not all "religious" are the same. While surely some "seculars" go to these sessions and only pretend to be interested so they can get it over with, others are surely interested. I am an Orthodox rabbi who has been performing weddings in Israel for "religious" and "secular" Israeli couples for 25 years. No one is required by the rabbinate to meet with me, and I don't give "confirmation" to anyone that they've met with me. But they all come (including couples that have been living together for years) to 4 - 5 meetings of 1 1/2 hours or more, to prepare for the wedding and design it as they wish within the limits of halakha (and to understand the halakhic requirements), and to prepare for married life - including sex. No one requires them to meet with me. There is an unfortunate lack of good premarital preparation in Israel. I wish I were not the only one doing this, and wish only the best to the couples who work in the program described in this article.
15. brainwashing
tzviah ,   jerusalem   (12.16.10)
I am just sitting back and reading everone's comments and wondering that it would be so nice if opinions were given by people who really knew what they were talking about. Before anyone shoots their mouth off with their opinion, maybe they should do research about the subject. Hmmmmm!
16. 10 Charles Shema every morning?
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (12.16.10)
Beware! You could want more.Appetite comes by eating.If this disaster happens,you can call me for assistance.
17. 16 Ora , don't worry
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (12.16.10)
Only Israel radio broadcasts this stuff . So i listen to other stations , don't need poison in my ears . But i asked your assistance on a problem i have . No answer .
18. 11 Charles
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (12.16.10)
Fake religious weddings makes me sad. A son phones to his mother: Mom.i bring a wonderful native american girl home,her name is Shooting Star. I.. have also an Indian name:Running Water. Now you need an Indian name too. -I have already one says the mother, My name is :Sitting Shiva.
19. Very funny Ora!!!!
Ruthie Goldman ,   Israel   (12.16.10)
I am a religious woman and I work with the public. Quite a few times, secular people have told me that they don't personally know anyone religious, but that they are happy to see that religious people are nice and normal.
20. 19 Ruthie
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (12.16.10)
In wartime jews were hidden in villages in France.The peasants were in chock,when the fugitives told them they are Jews.They thought Jews have corns.In Israel, we have about the same situation.The secular think that the Haredi are pingouins.They know them only by what they read in the papers.You do a unmissable job.We are very near G-D beware,a civil war.I wish you Hazlaha.Thanks for your post.
21. 17Charles, you listen to other stations?
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (12.16.10)
Well Israel radio is not missing a lot.
22. 17 Charles
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (12.16.10)
Till now nobody could answer on your question.I continue investigating
23. Ora 21 & 22
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (12.17.10)
21 : only two minutes when i'm awake at this hour [ rarely !!!! ] 22 . Thanks for your assistance . You don't need the Parashat Hashavua , you act already with love for others and , i suppose , with derech Eretz too . Have a fine שבת
24. 23 Charles Thanks for your appreciation
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (12.17.10)
Of course i need the Parashat Hashavuah,like a plant needs water. Warm wishes for, a great Shabat, to a great man.
25. 23 Charles
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (12.18.10)
Do you remember which Parasha you had on your Bar Mizva? I noticed that there is a connection between the Parasha Hashavuah and the caracter of the Bar Mizva boy. I do not believe in astrologie.Do you? Shavuah Tov.
26. 17 Charles Thomas set
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (12.18.10)
You can use it,but if, it has not yet been in the mikva( or at the sea) ,than you have to do it. Bonne Appetit!
27. Ora 25 & 26 Thanks .
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (12.19.10)
I have a good memory , so i remember . I do not believe in astrology . For me , no connection at all .
28. 27Charles correction 26
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (12.19.10)
I have a less good memory,I forget to tell you that only porcelan is permitted,not glass for example,Sorry.
29. 27 Charles No connection at all?
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (12.19.10)
OK,I understand,you need an ingenieur to fix it. Or if you meant ,friend connection, i object.
30. Ora ,
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (12.19.10)
26 : your advice is for a new set [ only Ultra orthodox do it ] not one used in a treif kitchen . 29 : no connection to parashat hashavua of the bar mitzwa and his caracter . You need someone to explain you everything . My granddaughter aged 5 can do it . Explain your 28 please .
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