Opinion
Honoring our heritage
Howie Mischel
Published: 01.12.10, 11:34
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21 Talkbacks for this article
1. You don't appreciate your history
Salma ,   Palestine   (12.01.10)
but you invent any history for you in Jerusalem, Who needs false history?!! There is no doubt that the Jewish presence in Jerusalem since ancient times but it is not the basis of Jerusalem, never.
2. To: No. 1
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.01.10)
I again invite you to cite one single reference to Jerusalem in the Qu'uran. Thus far -- (predictably enough -- you have failed to do so. I, on the other hand, can cite nearly 1,000 references to Jerusalem in the Hebrew Bible. Moreover, Jews have a millennia-long history of praying for the peace of Jerusalem, and for spending next year in Jerusalem. An equally long history of returning to Jerusalem and restoring our Temple. Put up or shut up, Salma. Start with some references to Jerusalem in the Qu'uran. We're waiting ....
3. our history re #1
David ,   Rehovot, Israel   (12.01.10)
I suggest you take your own advice and read up on the History of Jerusalem, bought by King David to build our Holy Temple, exactly where the Muslims had the chutzpa to build their mosque. Jews were here 2000 years before Mohamed walked the earth, and have had an everlasting presence here ever since, no matter how small we never completely left.
4. Salma's lies
Tomer   (12.01.10)
Maybe you think that the kotel is not Jewish as well?
5. Question for Salma
Eitan ,   Chicago   (12.01.10)
How do you manage to be one of the first commenters for any article on this site? Are you using a particular RSS feed, or are you on standby all morning, clicking refresh on your browser? It looks like this might be your full-time job. Ynet, which IP address do her comments come in on?
6. to #2 Sarah B ,This is for you Sarah B
Salma ,   Palestine   (12.01.10)
"Praise the prisoners servant by night from the Sacred Mosque to the Aqsa Mosque, which blessed us around to Nrih of Our Signs, He is the Hearer, Seer (1)" [al-Isra]. Al-Aqsa Mosque located in Jerusalem and the meaning of "blessed us around" is all Jerusalem and all Palestine : ) YALLA BYYYYYE.
7. To #6
John ,   USA   (12.01.10)
Your Quran verse still does not mention Jerusalem, although it was conventiently interpreted to have that meaning by later generations. How sad to re-invent, twist and turn the writings of your religion to suit your own political agenda. And even if the verse DID speak about Jerusalem, it still is one verse in the Quran up against 1000 verses or more in the Hebrew Bible. The Jewish connection to Jerusalem was deeper, longer and truer than Muhammad. Jews are native to Israel, the Arab Muslims were brutal and sometimes hateful invaders from Arabia, like so many others had been before them.
8. #6 Salma,
Yossef   (12.01.10)
it is debatable that this reference of the quran concerns Jerusalem. The name "Jerusalem" is not cited. But another point Salma, the hebrew name ירושלים may come certainly from ירו שלם which means "They will see the whole" (or the peace, to be in peace שלום is to be whole, in one piece, that is שלם) It is just pure simple hebrew. It is not arabic. Only this fact acknowledge the long standing jewish presence in Jerusalem, even if we don't want to consider the thousand times Jerusalem appear in the TaNaKh. The references to Jerusalem in christian scripture long before Mohamed time, confirm also if necessary the connection between J'lem and the Jews. You may argue that many of Jews today have no blood connection with the ancient Jews, which can be true to some extend, but this is not crucial. We Jews are the ones who perpetuate the living history, the culture, the rules, the people, the civilization of Israel. Israel, that is the name chosen by Yaakov after his confrontation with the angel, ישראל means ישר לאל that is "right to god". This is what we are, the people who decided to go right to god :) Salma, you have the right, or reasons, to be unhappy with us, but keep your mind clear and be honest. I could also say "who care about the Arabs?" I don't say it, I prefer to be honest to myself and say "I care about Arabs, because they are human beings, and certainly my cousins, to some extend". I say also honestly, we have a so small piece of land there on the arabic peninsula that what do they care if they just accept us as a part, a biological part, of the middle-east. We have been your professors in your way to discover god (this is a metaphor). Where do you think that Mohamed found all the substance of the quran, if it is not in our Torah? Try to be positive :) I am maybe naive, but I don't want to give up about the possibility of a real partnership with you. We have no secret plan, or final goal with you, we are just honestly looking for a mutual advantaging agreement. Well, I am not sure about you, on this point (according to what I read from you to Nour). Take care my friend :)
9. # 1
Birdi ,   Israel   (12.01.10)
The following facts are not invented. 1.Nationhood & Jerusalem; Israel became a Nation in 1312.BC 2000years before the rise of Islam. 2. Arab refuges in Israel began identifying themselves as part of a Palestinian people in 1967, two decades after the establishment of the modern Jewish State. 3. Since the Jewish conquest in 1272 BC, the Jews have had dominion over the land for 1000 years with a continuous presence in the region for the past 3,300 years. 4. The only Arab dominion since the conquest in 635 lasted no more than 22 years. 5. For over 3,300 years, Jerusalem has been the Jewish capital. Jerusalem has never been the capital of any Arab or Muslim entity. Even when the Jordanians occupied Jerusalem, they never sought to make it their capital & Arab leaders did not come to visit. 6. Jerusalem is mentioned over 700 times in the Tanach, the Jewish Holy Scriptures. Jerusalem in not mentioned even once in the Koran. 7. King David found the city of Jerusalem. Mohammad never came to Jerusalem. 8. Jews pray facing Jerusalem. Muslims pray with their backs towards Jerusalem.
10. #1 lashing out
BH ,   Iowa   (12.01.10)
is the shame and dishonor of conquerers having been defeated by the conquered. There is intense humiliation among an imperialist aggressor who gets defeated by a timy peaceful nation. #1's whining is the sound of a greedy empire that has gotten smaller not larger. Every sunny day in Liberated Israel is a reminder of this epic humiliation. There can never be peace with Arabs. But the price of their aggression can be made too high.
11. To: No. 6
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.01.10)
Yes, and the reference is to Aqsa Mosque. Your Sacred Mosque is somewhere else. Jerusalem is sacred to the Jews and has been since Biblical times. By the way -- there is no reference to Jerusalem in your quote, merely to a mosque that is distinctly not sacred, because another mosque is called the sacred mosque. My challenge stands. One reference to Jerusalem, please. Or, if you wish, to Al Quds. I'll save you the trouble -- there aren't any. So the city which you claim to absolutely revere doesn't rate a single mention. "Blessed us around" is certainly not a reference to Jerusalem and/or all Palestine. Your argument fails both on the facts and recorded history. Between 1948 and 1967, West Bankers were perfectly content to be considered Jordanians, and Gazans were perfectly content to be considered Egyptians. You certainly never did anything to beautify Jerusalem or maintain it or do anything for it except treat it like a garbage dump. So cut the crap, Salma. You cannot reinvent history, no matter how much you prefer a different one that the one you can claim.
12. talking about ANCIENT Khazars
observer   (12.02.10)
After the destruction of the first Temple, Nebuchadnezzar transported numbers of Jewish captives, not only to Babylon, but also to Armenia and the Caucasus. By the end of the fourth century BC, some Armenian cities had large Jewish populations. Like the Armenians, the Khazars were identified with Gog and Magog. And in an article of the November 2001 issue of The American Journal of Human Genetics, Ariella Oppenheim, of the Hebrew University of Israel, wrote that her new study revealed that Jews have shared a closer genetic relationship to populations of the Kurds, Anatolian Turks, and Armenians, than to populations in the southern Mediterranean, like the Arabs and Bedouins. The genetic influence of the Khazars on modern Jews is substantial, and in all likelihood dominant.
13. #11 Jews in the US are still more than Jews in Israel
observer   (12.02.10)
The irony is that Jews cannot claim the US because it is not mentioned in Bible. Jerusalem is NEVER mentioned even once in the Torah of Moses.
14. talking about ANCIENT Khazars
observer   (12.02.10)
After the destruction of the first Temple, Nebuchadnezzar transported numbers of Jewish captives, not only to Babylon, but also to Armenia and the Caucasus. By the end of the fourth century BC, some Armenian cities had large Jewish populations. Like the Armenians, the Khazars were identified with Gog and Magog. And in an article of the November 2001 issue of The American Journal of Human Genetics, Ariella Oppenheim, of the Hebrew University of Israel, wrote that her new study revealed that Jews have shared a closer genetic relationship to populations of the Kurds, Anatolian Turks, and Armenians, than to populations in the southern Mediterranean, like the Arabs and Bedouins. The genetic influence of the Khazars on modern Jews is substantial, and in all likelihood dominant.
15. 8 Yossef
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (12.02.10)
I like the way you put things straight, without agressivity, when dealing with our arab friends. Hanuka Sameah.
16. #15 Honestly I like It Too
Salma ,   Palestine   (12.02.10)
I respect Yossef becuse that ,regardless of whether or not we agree or disagree ; )
17. #8 Mohamed didn't find the substance Quraan in Torah,
observer   (12.02.10)
because Quraan is the words of God that had come to Mohamed. Mohamed is human being, slave of God. Mohamed and Muslims believe that Torah and other heavenly books are words of God. Quraan intended by God to complete those books. Of course you will find similarities between the two book, because those all came from God.
18. Ora & Salma Thanks :)
Yossef   (12.02.10)
for your kind words. One day we will be accepted by our arab neighbors as a integral part of the middle-east. We need their approval, even if a lot of us think that we can pass over. Peace an cooperation in any field: political, human, economical needs a profound respect and mutual understanding. We also need to interiorize the fact that we are a part of the middle-east with its millenarian culture and history. Contrarily to what some of us think, we are not a part of the western world, we gave to the western world its values we didn't take them from it. What makes me proud to be a Jew and an Israeli is that we are able to get our roots in a three thousand (at least) old epic history without being archaic. At the same time, when we honor our forefathers, we build microprocessors and give to the world the most we can in science, technology and medicine. We are unfortunately not the best people we could be. Our approach to the problem we created by returning to Israel is far to be the best for Arabs and Jews together (read please A. Einstein's book "How I see the world", the part on zionism, you will see what I mean). Nevertheless I am confident and optimistic, we'll make it happen. We share more than we think with Arabs of the Arabic Peninsula (which includes Palestinians). If we needed a confirmation, the last wikileaks are here, on the net. We need just to read them :) Best for both of you and חנוכה שמח
19. To: No. 12
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.02.10)
So, how do you account for the predominance of the Cohen gene amongst the Jewish people -- Sephardic, Ashkenazi, Mizrahi -- it's there and it's undeniable. You, on the other hand, being Arab and Moslem, descend from the bastard son of a prostitute. Wow. Some lineage. No wonder you try to discredit ours!
20. #19
observer   (12.02.10)
Many scientists have claimed to have found Israeli or Cohenim genes in tribes in black Africa and other communities around the world I'll help you Sarah to solve that existential threat; there is hypothesis that the Cohenic gene only demonstrates one of many lineages.
21. To: No. 20
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.02.10)
So what? The Falasha from Ethiopia are black. The Cohen gene simply establishes an undeniable link to Aaron, Moses' brother. Do not forget as well that Jethro, Moses' father-in-law was a Midianite and, as such, was black. Judaism is a religion and a way of life; not a race. Unlike Arabs, the Jews neither enslave nor look down upon black people.
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