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'Our heart is torn'; Fire victim laid to rest
Shmulik Hadad
Published: 05.12.10, 18:12
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31. #22
David Linshiz ,   NYC   (12.05.10)
"Certainly sounds like they feel that it is a degrading place to be or there wouldn't be an issue." Perhaps they learned this from all of the "ethnic supremacy" rhetoric coming from Israel's leaders as of late.
32. Ultra Orthodox = Taliban
shlomo ,   USA   (12.05.10)
Enough said.
33. # 3, I agree w/ u and well said.
(12.05.10)
34. She was Not Jewish!!! What don't you understand?
Phoenix ,   Israel   (12.05.10)
The woman was an Israeli that was not Jewish. Why would she has to be Buried in a Jewish Cemetery? I do not think she even her self would want. They are Christians. Each people with it's own religion. Jews in Jewish Cemeteries, Muslims in muslim Cemeteries and Christians in their own cemeteries acording each one to their religion. Why she has to be buried in a Jewish cemetery when she was not jewish????
35. TANIA BURIED IN NON-JEWISH CEMETARY
Shulamith ,   Netanya   (12.05.10)
When in the Name of Heaven are Jewish people going to stop the constant bickering, attacking, of one another, and senseless hatred of one another. The Carmel Mountain has gone up in flames, 41 lives have been lost, and a non-Jewish heroine has been buried in a non-Jewish cemetary. Their is no injustice in this. Rather the injustive is that she cannot be eulogized and mourned for the wonderful heroic person she was without Jews being attacked. 2000 years ago the Beit Mikdash was destroyed as a result of Causeless hatred of Jews for one another - will we keep on hating one another until the whole of the modern State of Israel is also destroyed for the same reason? Will we never learn??
36. Doing Damage
Jerry ,   Ra'anana   (12.05.10)
There is no group in the world that does more damage to respect for Jewish values than the rabbinate of Israel. It would take a gifted writer to come up with the stupid, unprincipled ideas that flow from this self-selecting group of clowns. We who pay taxes, serve in IDF and work for a living support this bunch. For shame!
37. Tania
sas ,   israel   (12.05.10)
my heart bleeds with the family. only Yishai would allow her NOT to be buried with her friends and colleagues. You really are "amazing". If you treat non Jews in a different way - don't allow them to serve in any parts of the army or any official organization. You really need to resign.
38. Heartbreakingfor all but if mother not Jewish one is not Jew
Alan ,   SA   (12.05.10)
She was a heroine! but our Law is clear.Its bad of course.
39. So 'mixed' people should not choose themselves?
Jens Jarva ,   North Cape   (12.05.10)
Looks like 'mixed' people (everywhere) are best of in Liberal societies and Liberal communities, who are less obsessed with purities and group borders. Still, the poison of stiff fundamentalism seems to be the smaller burden for those hit by this fire tragedy. I am, however, not convinced that this is a problem only in Judaism. There are probably thousands of priests (or pastors) in most churches, that would discriminate persons/couples not entirely belonging to their particular church. One example of this could be a Lutheran woman insisting on a traditional church marriage, but having a secular non-church member or Catholic as partner. In her search for a priest to conduct the service, she could encounter one or more Lutheran fossils before she found a priest liberal enough to conduct the wedding between her and the 'impure' man. That this actually happens sometimes in one of the most Liberal regions in the world (by hearsay hated by many Americans and Israelis for its Liberalism) and in a generally rather liberal church, could make one wonder about what happens elsewhere. Well, a partial answer to that is this article which among other things is about the seemingly racist crime of a heartless rabbinate. PS! When it comes to graveyards, the problem would usually be the opposite in the Nordic countries. Here the main rule (at most graveyards) is that everyone, regardless of faith, is buried in the same graveyard at a spot not depending on the religion of the person buried. There are of course some Mosaic graveyards and I think there are some specialised sections for Muslims and others in a few of the larger 'Lutheran' graveyard. In addition people can choose to spread the ashes at sea, or illegally somewhere else.
40. So who is a Jew?
Ruth Rasnic ,   Herzliya, Israel   (12.05.10)
Ruth, daughter in law of Naomi and great grandmother of King David was a Moabite.. Yael, the wife of Hever Hakeni, from the Song of the Prophetess Debora was probably not a Jew. Moses's wife Zippora was not a Jew. But this valiant young woman who came here with her oparents and made Israel her home is not a Jew. Hitler would have regarded her as a Jew. The Rabbinate did not. What a shame.
41. Rabbis
Juan ,   Spain   (12.05.10)
Are you listening, Rabbis? Is this how you RELIGIOUS people treat your heroic dead, who worked to keep your country safe. You should be ashamed of yourselves.
42. Oooh, horror!! how disgusting 2 b burried with a goy!!
Moise   (12.05.10)
no Jew should be treated that way!!!
43. How dare you still call yourself a Jew...
Ashley ,   New York   (12.05.10)
#9, firstly, in what part of this tragedy was Tania 'treated like dirt'? I don't see any injustice here! secondly, please do me a favor, and don't refer to yourself as part of the Jewish nation when you talk like that. As non-observant as I may be, being Jewish is one thing about me in which I take great pride!!
44. this article is disgustingly racist!
observer   (12.05.10)
It is not a shame to buried in a non-Jewish cemetery. She knew her mother is not Jewish and lived comfortably with it, and now she is at peace. Had she wanted, she could have converted, but she did not want to put on a show to please racists who cannot accept someone on account of their different race. That takes immense strength of character in a society such as Israel. The circumstances of her death do not 'elevate' her to being an 'honorary Jew'. What a disgusting thought, and what an insult, both to her and to the Druze cadets who lost their lives together with her. I really cannot get over the perverted mentality of the writer and the circles in which he lives.
45. Altough I despise religion of all shape,
tom ,   tel aviv   (12.05.10)
one cannot force a group that sets the rules for themselves to change them on somebody else's whim. The truly apalling fact is, that 21-st century Israel doesn't have a civilian cemetary, where a person is buried according to his/her wishes without the interference from Tali-Babbbas. The frumme can dig their graves in whatever fashion they deem appropriate: for once your "gevalt" of racism etc. is out of place, sorry fellow infidels...
46. Here we go again...
Ashley ,   New York   (12.05.10)
Great, let's turn this into a bashing of the religious, once again. Oh, everybody already has. Great job, all of you, at continuously stabbing your own brothers.
47. Stop attacking our dear rabbis
olim hadashim ,   tel aviv/israel   (12.05.10)
Stop attacking our dear rabbis and the values which are dear to us.It sucks !! If you do not like to abide by these rules just leave them and do what you want without attacking us.
48. #9. Certain personalities create evil in this world more
Jae ,   Lynn US   (12.05.10)
than others. Hitler stalin lenin marx mao kum qwat (or whatever his name was) collectively murdered 200 million people in the 20th century alone. None were "religious", all were atheists. Go deeper than the simplistic religion bashing. Anarchists with no religion would end up stealing your food and raping your daughters if the world was ruled by such Gdless people. Humanitarianism is great, but its subject to mans whim. Am I in the mood to help? whereas having the Creator in your faith gives imperative. Good disucussion...
49. Your Rab-Eyes are as Crazy as our Mullahs!
IRAN#1   (12.05.10)
See we have too much in common, LOL!
50. More Torah Bashing
TSB ,   Clifton, NJ USA   (12.05.10)
This article is disgraceful, but not unexpected. What do the "circumstances of her death" have anything to do with it? One can be a heroic gentile, even a righteous gentile, but one is still a gentile. Righteous gentiles are honored in our religion, and she may have been one, but she is still buried (honorably) as a gentile. And what about those Jews who want (and wanted) a Jewish burial -- which from time immemorial has meant in a separate Jewish cemetery? What gives anyone the right to violate THEIR rights, just because you find this woman heroic?
51. RUTH and The RABBIS
TSB ,   Clifton   (12.05.10)
I love how every clown knows how to cite some Biblical story -- like Ruth. Ruth is the quintessential example of a righteous convert: her statement to Naomi "Your nation is my nation, Your God is my God" is the essence of conversion, and the Rabbis understood it as such. Let's boil this all down. Those who are outraged at this story simply don't like the Torah, not in the sense of laws you have to follow. Yes, sometimes you feel good about parts of our tradition and you are inspired. If it makes you feel good, fine, if not, I do what I want. This is not Torah -- it's feel- goodism. And it leads to resentment of those charged with ensuring that our traditional systems of laws (including the Written and Oral Torah) are followed. Here's a newsflash: if it were not for the Rabbis and their adherence to the Torah, Judasim would have died out many years ago. Look at Reform Judaism in America today -- a complete and utter failure. So stop blaming the Rabbis for doing precisely what they are supposed to do -- ensuring that the Torah is adhered to.
52. w/exception of 3 every other TB is as stupid as rabbis!
(12.05.10)
This young woman was buried with full military honors in a separate section of the cemetary because she wasn't Jewish. The rabbis possibly made a serious error. Ynet in reporting this possibly made a serious error. But most of the TBers here are just stupid and have no idea what they are kvetching (complaining) about!
53. the ugly face of Judaism
fred lazin ,   omer israel   (12.05.10)
enough of the dictatorship of the orthodox rabbinate. a young woman an israeli a prison guard serving her society and country gives her life in the line of duty and she can't be buried in a Jewish cemetery Even Germans buried Jews with non Jews who objected. shame on israel that we continue to live with this can't we bury our victims with human (Jewish) dignity.
54. Was Tania Lansky Jewish?
Heather Czerniak ,   Mississauga, Canada   (12.05.10)
If she was, that alone should qualify her for burial with her parents. What the heck are these Orthodox Rabbis thinking? Much of their beliefs come from the Talmud. It's the Torah that matters!
55. It's a military cemetery!
turtleneck ,   Lowell, MA, USA   (12.05.10)
Anyone who dies in the service of Israel, Jewish or otherwise, should be worthy of burial there!
56. When we married,we had to produce Ketubot of our parents
Alan ,   SA   (12.05.10)
57. And?
Joshua ,   Germany   (12.05.10)
Judaism played no role during her lifetime, why after her death? I donĀ“t understand why everyone of these victims is a hero. Go to a komer (christian priest) and ask him a a non-christian can be burried his cemetery, the answer will be No. So, she was non-jewish, probably atheistic, why should she be buried an a jewish cemetery ??? As usally, people blame the rabbinate and religion in general.
58. That really is enough!
Ussishkin ,   Tel Aviv Israel   (12.05.10)
It is time that the orthodoxy of Israel that is flexing its muscles with control of our daily lives is challenged and stopped. This is just too much!
59. Why is this news and to #40
Shu ,   Ariel, Israel   (12.05.10)
If this happened in the US she wouldn't be buried in a Jewish cemetery either, because according to 5000 years of tradition she isn't Jewish. . You can all hate on the Rabbis as much as you want, but they are 100% correct here. no matter how tragically or heroically you die, it doesn't change your religious status.
60. #40
Shu ,   Ariel, Israel   (12.05.10)
In answer to your question, someone whose mother is Jewish is a Jew you can also convert to Judaism. You brought the example of Ruth, she is a prime example of what it means to convert. Her mother in law tried hard to convince her NOT TO convert, but Ruth said your god is my god and your people are my people. So she was able to convert, it's not something to be taken lightly or passed out without consideration. And since when do we allow Hitler to decide who is a Jew and who isn't.
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