Opinion
The Palestine question
Moshe Dann
Published: 10.12.10, 01:00
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51 Talkbacks for this article
31. Re #17
Andrew Brehm   (12.11.10)
By international law Palestinians have no rights whatsoever. You are no nation, you have no land that you control and you are in a state of war that you started. If we really applied international law, the first thing that would have to happen is that Jewish refugees, twice as many as Arab refugees, would have to receive as much aid from the UN as the Arab refugees. Next Syria and the other Arab states would have to pay reparations for illegally attacking Israel so often. You are confusing popular opinion and the law. Law is what applies to everyone equally, regardless of popularity. If you read an actual law text, you will see that you are totally wrong.
32. Sheep...very sad
LadyGaza007 ,   Mars.   (12.11.10)
As a Jew, I am embarrassed for my people, ashamed of Israel and will not call it a Jewish State until they start acting like Jews instead of greedy, inhumane, careless tyrants. This article is obviously written by someone who is misinformed and dis informed. It's critical, when touching on subjects such as these, that YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT before you stick your foot in your mouth Mr. Moshe. Perhaps you should READ the Oslo Agreement yourself, in full before misconstruing it and spreading the wrong information around to others. If Israel thinks everyone has a bad opinion of them, then for ONCE they are right about something. Despite U.S. media propaganda fueling the fire (no pun), Israel's actions speak much louder than their words and clearly show their intentions and complete disregard for international law and humanity. Here is a start, why don't you stop forcing Arab-Israeli citizens (in which YOU gave citizenship to) to live in shacks just feet away from anthrax contaminated sewage canals in Lod, where you happen to be building "Jewish Only" housing and erecting 10ft tall cement walls to block off the slums/trash dumps you've forced citizens of your country to live in? Just sayin'
33. Even Palestinians should laugh at this!
michael redbourn ,   Arad Israel   (12.11.10)
A man who tried to petrol bomb a pub in West Sussex was caught by police after he ran into a lamppost and needed medical treatment. Amir Ali was jailed for eight years at Hove Crown Court for the attack on the Imperial pub in Broadfield in May 2008. He had denied being responsible for the attack, despite it being caught on CCTV. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-11942814
34. To: No. 32
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.11.10)
Mars is about right. Jupiter or Saturn might be more appropriate -- you REALLY are way out there. As far as I am concerned, since Arafat (may his name be cursed throughout eternity) walked away from the Oslo Accords and chose to start the second intifada, the Oslo Accords are null and void. Israeli Arabs have the highest standard of living in the Middle East apart from all the oil-soaked sheikhs in the Gulf. Anthrax contaminated sewage canals? Go back on your meds, Saturn. With some luck and much psychotherapy, within a decade or so, you'll earn the right to claim you come from Mars. Just sayin'.
35. #11 - Just Check Your Law
Doug ,   Rochester, USA   (12.11.10)
Until the Fourth Geneva Convention in 1949, acquiring territory through war was immoral. But since 1949, it is ILLEGAL. it is there land, not yours. It is up to them whether they have their own nation or beome part of Jordon and Egypt, it is not up to Israel.
36. Jewish sheep....even sadder
LordTelAviv007 ,   Earth   (12.11.10)
As a Jew, LadyGaza007 #32 is an embarrassment to the others of her/his religion. For starters, why would you call yourself "ladygaza"? You support the "rights" of Gazans? You think Hamas is the "democratically elected representatives of the Palestinian people" and are honorably upholding international law? And why are you talking about Lod when the author is talking about the peace process? What does alleged anthax in Lod have to do with the failed Oslo peace process? (which I'm sure the author has read cover-to-cover more than once, as have I). I'm just sayin that you sound like a social embarrassment, having said nothing constructive in your talkback and yammered on about "greedy, inhumane, careless tyrants". Gosh, I thought you were talking about Abu Mazzen, Mohammed Dahlan, and Ismael Haniya! Or are you telling us that the Palestinian leadership has given you the example of humane, caring, democratic leaders? Instead of being embarrassed, why don't you move to Ramallah or Gaza City and become proud? Then you can help participate in the caring society and help with honor killings and justice for collaborators, and invest in the companies controlled by the Palestinian elite who live in mansions with body guards.
37. Only a real nation can be independent, a fake one cannot be
tomer ,   herzeliyya   (12.11.10)
That's why the so called "P-people" cause is fraudulent.. A people invented in 1964 by a Soviet-funded Egyptian pedophile wearing distinctive headress will never be Independent.
38. To: No. 35
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.11.10)
Okay, just check the law. Here it is: http://www.globalpolitician.com/24388-israel-jerusalem Although you would benefit from reading the treatise in its entirety, feel free to skip down to the section titled "Law on Israel's Takeover of 1967 Lands." Read both subparagraph 1 and 2 -- the first examines the issue under Security Council Resolution 242 (and confirms that SCR 242 it is neither binding nor enforceable, as it was issued under Chapter Six of the United Nations Charter, and not Chapter Seven). The second section discusses Acquisition of Non-Sovereign Land in a Defensive War and concludes that international law does not preclude Israel from retaining AND settling Judea and Samaria and, in fact, fully supports Israel’s right to do precisely that. By the way -- did you know that the so-called "Kingdom of the Transjordan" (present-day Jordan) was carved out of the Palestine Mandate by the British in order to appease the younger brother (Abdullah) of King Feisal of Iraq? When the British made Feisal king of Iraq, Feisal's younger brother, Abdullah, had a hissy fit and insisted that he be made a king, too. Hence the mythical invented "Hashemite" kingdom. Whatever the hell that is! Thought you might want to know that, Douggie.
39. #11 you are sadly mistaken
Legal Eagle   (12.11.10)
Israel violated a modus vivendi agreement with the US and Jordan when it launched a massive attack on Es Sammu in November of 1966 and subsequently sent cultivators across the Armistice Demarcation Line into the Latrun no-man's land on 15 April, who ploughed areas situated in Jordan. The US formally condemned the raid and told the Israeli regime its actions had destabilized the Jordanian government. Jordan subsequently entered into a mutual defense pact with Egypt, and had every right to counter-attack Israel after it had started the Six Day War. Under the terms of international law and the UN Charter, Israel has no right to acquire any territory by war .
40. #39
NO SUCH THING ,   israel   (12.12.10)
Who started the 6day war please are you on drugs?
41. Sarah B
Joe S ,   Gibraltar   (12.12.10)
You're the best!!
42. Sarah B and "repatriation"
Smith ,   TA, Israel   (12.13.10)
Sarah B. Have you no shame? Deporting by force 2 million civilians is a crime committed against the Jewish people too many times in history. Advocating it makes you Almelek. I'm an atheist but know enough about my own people's history to know what you're proposing is simply not Jewish. And what makes you think the world would not intervene? How can you make such a boast? "We'll deport them by force and there's not a thing the world can do about it." Are you kidding me? Do you not know what happened to Serbia when they tried that in Kosovo? You really want to condemn the Israeli people to sanctions, isolation, starvation, criminality and the breakdown of the state followed by invasion?! Because that's what happened to Serbia. You really think America and NATO will stand aside and allow an ally carry out such a grisly crime in a region that is of vital strategic importance to them? Aside from the crime the ramifications for such a move on the stability of the entire region would in and of itself cause a severe Western retaliation against Israel. You really want to wish such a moral crime and terrible fate on the Israeli people? Ah but of course you don't care about Israel. You're just a foreigner who shares my faith but doesn't really share my fate. Peres was right. There's a big difference between Israelis and people like you..... And thank G-d that none of you are in the IDF Staff or we'd all be doomed. Well, I'd be doomed. You'd be safe in the USA cheering from the sides for your macabre amusement.
43. To: No. 42
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.13.10)
1. There is a world of difference between deportation and repatriation. Repatriation is scarcely a new concept. Look at the massive population moves in the aftermath of World War II. That's just a consequence of war. The Arabs started six wars against Israel; they lost all six. The ersatz "Palestinians" have engaged in nearly seventy years of unrelenting terror against Jews, both in Israel and in the Diaspora. Somewhere along the way, they should have figured out that there could be consequences to their actions. 2. The world will not intervene. Oh, they may devote a page or two to the issue in various newspapers, but intervene physically? Hardly. West Bank Arabs who travel do so on Jordanian travel documents, not Israeli. What better proof of citizenship can there be, and what country does not reserve the right to repatriate foreigners? Nothing grisly about repatriation. Who came to the aid of the nearly one million Jews who were expelled from Arab and Islamic lands? No one. Why would you think that anyone would come to the aid of the Arabs who will be considered illegal aliens once Israel annexes Judea and Samaria? Has anyone ever come to the aid of the tens of millions of refugees in sub-Saharan Africa? No. Of course not. The Arabs who will be repatriated to Jordan will be compensated for property left behind. Unlike what happened to the Jews expelled from Arab and Moslem lands. 3. It is not a moral crime. What is immoral is the fact that successive Israeli governments have allowed these people to terrorize Jews and Israelis. When is enough enough? When is it far too much? There must be consequences to waging war and engaging in unrelenting terror, as the ersatz "Palestinians" have done for nearly seventy years. They have skated by for sixty-two years. Game over.
44. To: Joe at No. 41
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.13.10)
Thank you kindly, sir!
45. To: No. 39
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.13.10)
Why don't you leave the practice of law to those licensed to do so? Israel was not the aggressor in the Six-Day War. I remind you that in the last week of May, Nasser (may his name be cursed throughout eternity) ordered U.N. peacekeeping troops out of the Sinai, in clear violation of the 1956 armistice agreement. Moreover, he also blocked the Straits of Tiran, Israel's outlet to the Sea, which is deemed casus belli under international law. After diplomatic efforts failed to dislodge the Egyptian blockade and restore the U.N. peacekeeping troops to the Sinai, Israel had no choice but to retaliate, which they did on June 5, 1967. Moreover, it was Jordan who attacked Israel in 1967. Israel's acquisition of non-sovereign Judea and Samaria was fully legal under international convention and statute. Do not delude yourself into thinking otherwise. When is the United States planning to return New Mexico and Arizona to Mexico? When is the United States planning to return Puerto Rico and Guam to Spain? When is the United States planning to cede Guantanamo back to the Cubans? Yeah. That's what I thought. Why should a different set of laws apply to Israel than to any other country in the world?
46. To: No. 35
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (12.13.10)
Perhaps you should educate yourself on the vast difference between sovereign territory and non-sovereign territory. If you did, then you would not make a complete fool of yourself as you have in your post at No. 35. It could have been "Palestinian" land. But they chose to reject partition in 1947. Too bad. Can't put toothpaste back into the tube. C'est la vie.
47. Repositioning the question: Re to Smith [#42 post]
Smith, in a 2009 poll by the Palestinian Center for Public Opinion, only 55.3 Palestinians responded "I would stay" tot the question: "If the possibility of immigration to the West were open to you, would you immigrate or stay in the country?" [By the way, what are the impediments to them leaving?] Therefore, Smith the more apropos questions are: ONE: Is it moral to compensate a sizeable portion of the Palestinians to leave? For instance, article 48 of the Fourth Geneva Convention: "Art. 48. Protected persons who are not nationals of the Power whose territory is occupied, may avail themselves of the right to leave the territory subject to the provisions of Article 35 . . . ." TWO: Does Israel have a moral obligation to give the Palestinians who stay automatic citizenship? Israeli Atts. Marc Zell and Sonia Shnyder in a 2003 article answered this question: "Upon a change of sovereignty a state may extend its nationality or refrain from doing so, as a matter of its own municipal law, without running afoul of any duty imposed by international law to grant nationality. There is no rule of international law under which the nationals of the predecessor state automatically acquire the nationality of the successor state." If you want to continue this discussion or discuss other alternatives to the 2-state solution, please just email me.
48. Sara dear, look at it from the Palestinian point of view!
Edithann ,   USA   (12.14.10)
Why shouldn't they fight for their lands and homes with everything they have? You Israeli's and your supporters are the immature ones who think you will finally 'get it all' ! That will never happen..not in your lifetime, nor in succeeding generations...... TATA
49. #7 Nabil Hashem - California
Moragh ,   California   (12.16.10)
So mr BIG man Nabil. How does it feel not having to write ARAB after your name??? Pretty good huh? Regarding your remarks about the Israeli fire. You prefer to ignore that it was the arabs that started the fire. That holds the arabs guilty of the murders of 43 innocents. Now put that in your water-pipe and smoke it, mr Would-Be bigshot. You're just another Arab. Even living among civil people you still can't get your arab blood out of you. Poor thing you. My heart bleeds for you. It sure does take all kinds to make a world!
50. re: palestine as a "state"?
joel ,   usa   (12.17.10)
those s. america countries had no "balls" of their own, their decisions are irrelevant & expendables, ok? cocaine is their "main" business! if the palestinians have their own territory & can depend it from other forces. then they could have the "statehood" but apart from it, where will they establis their 'statehood", in the moon?
51. to nr. 20.
sjoerd van der velde ,   hoorn-the netherland   (01.13.11)
make the cat believe this inventional phantasy. if you believe in your own dreams/pantasies it is your own business. i donot agree, may i? success, mazzeltov.
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