Opinion
Falsifying Jewish law
Michael Abraham
Published: 13.12.10, 22:04
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36 Talkbacks for this article
1. Banning of Sales to Non-Jews
Moishe ,   Frederick, USA   (12.13.10)
I agree with the Rabbis we must limit the disdainful activities of Jews and non-Jews with respect to things that are antagonistic to Jewish law. I also agree with the author that alot of what is proposed is based on the Israel of yesteryear. However, Jews cannot be silent when there are antagonistic forces around us. What is a viable alternative? For Jews, return to Torah-based values. Make observance and events fun and you probably will see less folks breaking away. Do at least 1 more mitzvah a week.
2. Torah (Oral and Written)
Moishe ,   Frederick, USA   (12.13.10)
If you believe, as I do, that Oral and Written Law is unchanging, you cannot and should NOT revise it. Otherwise where do you stop? What's to attract Jews to Judaism? I'd like to hear from Orthodox Jews and those who study Torah, Mishnah, and Talmud at least once weekly.
3. Rabbi Avraham, did you cite Moses or Torah?
Steve Klein   (12.13.10)
Perhaps you did and I missed it. Seems to me, if you are going to make the case that it is fine to sell Jewish land permanently to non-Jews, you might cite something from the five books of Moses? Or the prophets, etc. I have gone on record. I have stuck my (proverbial) neck out, perhaps unwisely, arguing that Jews should be permitted to "rent" Jewish property to non-Jewish "friends" of Israel; those who absolutely will not proselytize our people, particularly vulnerable Jewish children. That having been said, the land of Israel was given to your namesake Rabbi Avraham and to his son Isaac and to Isaac's son Jacob and to their descendants forever; the land was given exclusively to Israel. I see nothing in the Torah that would indicate it is permitted to sell Jewish land to non-Israelites; to non-Jews. Do you? If so, where in our Bible (Tanakh) can it be found?
4. :: Israeli society
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (12.13.10)
The simple truth of the matter is that because Jews were dissimulated across the world they were enlightened to a large extent (particularly in Europe and the US). In Diaspora Jews forsook such primitive practices as 'stoning', 'burnt offerings', etc. If Jews had of remained in the ME in large numbers in the form of semi-autonomous kingdom(s) they would have been conquered many times over (Ottomans/European conquests/etc) and ended up no different from the cultural likes of Egypt, Syria, etc. It is truly sad to see Israel (a new nation founded on Western principles) devolve in such a rapid manner where the religious Jewish elite are imposing their backward mindsets and advocating a return to more privative times where a person is judged solely on what religion they are and be ostracized because of such. One would have hoped that the moral lessons learnt in Western cultures and societies would have carried over to the modern state of Israel but sadly because of a collective lack of self-identity the nation of Israel is reverting back to a the same fractured social schisms which lead to the dissolution of the ancient kingdoms of Israel in the first place.
5. Adhering to "eye for an eye" rule
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (12.13.10)
It is found in the section of Torah that deals with tort law, not criminal punishments, and sets the value for damages granted to a plaintiff not to exceed the actual damage that was suffered. It has nothing whatever to do with poking out eyes. This is pshat that every cheder child knows. Maybe "Rabbi" Abraham should stick to physics.
6. Rabbi Abraham I happen to not agree with those Rabbis
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (12.14.10)
I also do not agree with you. Who do you think you are to state that they have twisted anything? If you feel that you can do better than they have, feel free to apply for their positions. You are not the final authority on the subject. They have stated their legal opinion on the matter and so have you. But that does not make either of you correct. They do have the right to state their opinion regardless of what you think.
7. Moishe #1: "Disdainful activities of Jews."
Steve   (12.14.10)
Con-artist, Bernie Madoff's activities are disdainful activities. I am yet to be convinced, a prohibition of selling Jewish land to non-Jews is disdainful Jewish activity. Rabbi Abraham wrote above: "The rabbis’ declaration.....may also endanger Jews abroad." What doesn't endanger Jews abroad? Israel defending herself in the face of unrelenting war and terror, according to some Diaspora Jews, endangers Jews abroad. Israel's mere existence, it is argued, endangers Jews abroad. That Israel's existence as a Jewish state endangers Jewish lives abroad has become fashionable in some Jewish Diaspora circles. Maybe NY Times columnist Thomas Friedman believes Israel endangers his life. Professor Tony Judt (I think) believes it, as do Professors Norman Finkelstein and Noam Chomsky believe a Jewish state poses a threat. It seems to me, we need to be careful when we base right and wrong with respect to what Israel does on whether it "might" endanger Jews abroad.
8. Completely agree (almost)
Daniel Breslauer ,   Jerusalem   (12.13.10)
Except for your belief that the laws of the state of Israel superseed halacha (in that they are halacha), I fully agree with you. Such people make me want to turn Conservative or Reform. You make me want to stay Orthodox. Maybe thanks to you, Rabbi Abraham, I will continue to be Orthodox.
9. Rabbi Abraham PhD in Physics
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim,   (12.14.10)
B"H Dear so called rabbi Abraham, it seems that you'd better stick to teaching physics rather than halacha. Your article on halacha in fact is as unscholarly as an article can get, in as much as it brings down not one single halachic source. Of course you have the right to express your opinion, your feelings and the like, but without sources it really remains just that: Your opinion, your feelings and the like. Besides, asking for the firing of these courageous rabbis constitutes a clear attack on religious freedom and brings into one’s mind the People’s Republic of China’s treatment of the Tibetan monks. Also, rabbis have to teach Torah Law and if one brings your suggestion, that rabbis teach the State’s laws, to its logical consequence, it would mean that according to you the State is god, which evidently is not the case. So, it seems dear idol-worshipping Abraham, the one who should go back to school is you, not the courageous, Torah-observing rabbis you try to demolish.
10. #2 Note Rabbi Elyashiv's reaction.
Roman ,   Lod, Israel   (12.14.10)
He treated this pamphlet as something that shouldn't exist, period - and he's one of the most widely respected Torah scholars and Poskim alive today. But I can't find myself agreeing with the style of this article, either. Toward the end it plainly goes into matters that have little to do with Halacha, and everything to do with appearances. Eye for an eye? Really now?
11. It is Rabbi Abraham who falsifies Torah
Avrohom ,   New York   (12.14.10)
The prohibition in Deuteronomy (Devaim) is Lo Teichaneim. It is composed of 3 parts: it's forbidden to praise a goy; it's forbidden to do a gratuitous favor to a goy; it's forbidden to sell land in Eretz Yisrael to a goy. All ultra-Orthodox rabbis in U.S. teach this. Abraham only wants to pander to non-Jews with his non-Torah column.
12. M.G. #4: dissolution of the ancient kingdoms of Israel.
Steve   (12.14.10)
You speak of the dissolution of the ancient kingdoms of Israel and Judah. Apparently you've studied Jewish history. Maybe you read the Bible. If so, you would know the dissolution of the ancient kingdoms was because we did not keep our law. What are these "Western principles" that you believe conflict with the law of Moses?
13. Another Torah scholar who endangered Jews
Shimon ,   Gush Etzion   (12.14.10)
This is what Jews in Mordechai's time believed. You see, Mordechai refused to bow down to Haman, and Haman being enraged, ordered a decree to have all the Jews killed. If Michael Abraham is correct, then Mordechai also did the wrong thing, since his actions could have caused the entire Jewish people to be wiped out. However, the Torah forbids us to worship idols - under ANY circumstances. And the real reason why the Jews were under threat is because it was their sins, including enjoying the Persian king's feast, that brought them to their knees, which resulted in their repentance, and hence, the holiday Purim resulted, as recounted in the Book of Esther. Now, I would like "Rabbi" Abraham to quote a specific example from the Bible to prove his point, like I just proved my point to the opposite of this physics teacher's opinion.
14. 13, because...
yank oldman ,   israel   (12.14.10)
you cannot selll this land cause it is not your land, it is not the palestinians land, it is not the gentiles or non arabs, you are just inhabiting the surface until your bones no longer support your mouth. then a piece of paper as abstract as what you are saying will decree that this land in its entire period of formation belongs to another man and not the maker, you thief with clever words, one day you will see what is belonging to you and what is not because you didnt make this.
15. #11 What the.......??????
Chaya ,   Tel Aviv   (12.14.10)
It's forbidden to praise a non-Jew or do a favor for one?????? I have NEVER heard of such garbage in my life!!!! Is this Judaism????? This is a law within Judaism????? Do you realize what you have done???? I don't WANT to follow this disgusting law!!! Who in the world said this anyway???
16. Seperate development
Mark ,   TA. ISrael   (12.14.10)
I sadly grew up under the apartheid regime in South Africa and recently made Aliyah to Israel. With this background, I am deeply saddened by the behaviour of the Rabbi's, their lack of regard for human decency, and segratist thinking. I begin by stating that at NO POINT can Israel be accused of being an "Apartheid regime" or anything close to that. Proponents of such talk and malalignment have NO concept of apartheid and should rather not use the concept without understanding what it is in it's fullest measure HOWEVER, one horrific aspect of apartheid was a cruel thing called the "Group Areas Act" which determined where a man could live, based on nothing other than the colour of his skin. This segregation, besides being emasculating for a man, is detrimental to his family and well being, and the Rabbi's should hang their heads in shame that they wish to enforce such behaviour. Were we not once slaves unto Pharoah in Egypt, facing the same injustices?? Please do not take me for a tree hugging liberal. I believe strongly in the safety and well being of Israel as a Jewish State, believing a firm hand is needed to quell our hostile neighbours, that Gaza should be seperated with a wall and international law (border controls, visa's etc) and should stand up on it's own or sink in it's own corrupt quagmire BUT, and I repeat BUT.. Not all Arabs are bad as not all blacks in South Africa were bad. Most men all want the same thing - to provide for their families and create a better world for their children. An Arab neighbour is not a bad thing if he is not a political or physical terrorist (no different to having a neigbour who is extreme right wing Jew).. Please Rabbi's, see the disgusting errors of your ways and just how you are demonising people in the name of a "Halachah" that does not exist. I am happy to debate apartheid with anyone who wishes because this is not apartheid - it is uncalled for hate. Lets not rent properties to any ultra orthodox Jews unless they can prove substantial income AND A JOB!!
17. Roman # 10 - clarification re: Rabbi Elyashiv
Shimon ,   Ashdod   (12.14.10)
FYI, after the scathing comments of other rabbis were published in his name, Rabbi Elyashiv said that he never made such statements. Being a Torah giant and a man of truth, it's safe to assume that he's telling the truth. Thus it's most likely that someone w/an agenda against certain rabbis "spoke in the rabbi's name".
18. Re post #2
Ami   (12.14.10)
Moishe in post #2 asks: "What's to attract Jews to Judaism?" I think you are getting at the question how are secular Jews to understand the Rabbi's ban on renting to Arabs? Here is how: The Israeli Government recently approved a loyalty oath for new immigrants. By the same token, all citizens should be required to take the same loyalty oath. It is generally assumed in Western countries that citizenship implies allegiance to a country. But when Israel was founded it gave citizenship to all Arabs regardless of loyalty. A Talkbacker in a past article pointed out that in a 1989-1990 poll, 95% of Israeli Arabs supported a potentially fully-militarized Palestinian state, while the same poll found a large majority of Israeli Jews did not even trust a demilitarized Palestinian state. So an inference can be made that vast majority of the Israeli Arabs do not care about the security of Israel and hence are not loyal. Hence, what can we do about this?
19. Re post #4 [such an ignorant comment]
Ami   (12.14.10)
Matty Groves in post #4, Jews did not "forsake" capital punishment in exile. It was actually 40 years before the Temple was destroyed that capital punishment was suspended, due to Roman persecution. IF you think the Romans were more civilized than the Jews I suggest you visit a Roman amphitheater. Our sages states that a Sandehrin that put to death one person in 70 years was considered bloodthirsty. You should first throw stones at Texas in the civilized United States before attacking Judaism. I consider the modern punishment of life in prison [not found in the Talmud but practiced by ancient Egypt] as more barbaric because scientists have proven that memory cells does not last forever, so how can people be punished for a crime they do not or only vaguely remember?!
20. IF IT IS TRUE,
Salma ,   Palestine   (12.14.10)
This gives us further proof that the rabbis use religion as a crutch for political purposes .
21. Spin Rabbi's
Yakov ,   Tel Aviv   (12.14.10)
First we had spin Doctors. Those politico's who have a well honed ability to twist the facts, manipulate the truth and obscure reality, for the purpose of forwarding ones agenda. Now we have spin Rabbi's. The agenda is simple, re-fashion Eretz Israel, to emerge under the strict control of the haredi Rabbi's. Rent and sell property only to those they deem fit. Vigilante justice for those who stray from the myopic path. Judaism only in a single definition. Castigation of woman. Establish a population of "Jews" who work, fight and pay taxes, but have no power or voice. A hard line, totalitarian theocracy. What's the risk to this? History is replete with such regimes, and the universal result is demise. Eventually, such domination always fails, and the result is catastrophic. Is this what we want for Israel? Is this the best way to honor those who sacrificed so much for us? Is this the definition of being a good Jew? Eventually, the direction of this country. Our future, lies in the hands of our leaders. Leadership! Our leaders need to exercise sound judgement, and do what is needed for the future of this country.
22. Re post #7
Ami   (12.14.10)
Steve in post #7 questioned what Rabbi Abraham meant when he stated: "The rabbis’ declaration.....may also endanger Jews abroad." I think he meant it might endanger property rights of Jews particularly in Moslem countries. Of course, the recent Turkish proposed ban on Israelis buying property came prior to the Rabbis' ban. In fact, how come the proposal by Turkey did not receive the same uproar?
23. there's a lot of name calling in this article
david ,   new york   (12.14.10)
he essentially calls the rabbis who oppose selling homes to arabs a bunch of neanderthals. dear rabbi dr abraham, i'm very happy you have a phd in physics. its nice to study about the andromeda galaxy, but in our solar system things work a little differently. arabs are a mortal threat to our country (both the ones that blow themselves up as well as the other ones). If we do not wake up to this fact soon, you better start brushing up on your sharia.
24. Avrohom #11
Steve   (12.14.10)
What you've written is simply reprehensible. Where is this written that we are forbidden to praise a gentile? Where is it written that Jews must not do a favor for a non-Jew? Can you cite chapter and verse? I know it is not anywhere in the Jewish Bible. Where is it?
25. Re post #8
Ami   (12.14.10)
Daniel Breslauer in post #8 states: "Such people make me want to turn Conservative or Reform." Your comment disturbs me most of all. The Lubavitcher Rebbe stated that there are no labels in Judaism, only Jews. Judaism has no real divisions, only a spectrum of observance. Let me tell you a story that I believe is true as a parable. There was a student in Bnei Barak who was devoted to his Rav. One Shabbat, he saw his Rav light a cigarette on Shabbat behind a building, so the student abandoned Orthodox Judaism though in his heart he knew the Torah was true. He erred. The parable is that observance is dependent on the individual [G-d judges us as individuals and we are not held guilty for the sins of our father or a former teacher] and you should not despair even if the majority of Orthodox Jews violate a certain commandment in a given generation. For instance, the Levites are not supposed to be kings in Halacha, but the Maccabees violated this. Judaism continued and the Halacha was not lost. But if you imbue your children with hatred of Judaism, we know from experience that they could be lost forever.
26. Rabbi Herzog - a clarification
Shimon ,   Ashdod   (12.14.10)
Rabbi Avraham shalom, You mentioned the words of the gaon Rabbi Herzog. However, perhaps you didn't actually read everything he said. He based his words on many conditions. In other words, it wasn't a a blank check. I suggest that you, or anyone that is inerested, read an article in Hebrew by Rabbi Moshe Zuriel. The article is called ולא תחנם and it appears on the Hebrew site of Arutz Sheva.
27. Re post #24, #15, and #11 [Possible explanation of Halacha]
Ami   (12.14.10)
Halacha should not be cited without an explanation on Ynet because most people here do not have comprehensive knowledge of Halacha. Is it not the case that in the Talmud it states that we are not to praise non-Jews, because in those days a gentile would return the greeting by blessing his idols, and this would be a desecration of G-d's name. Also, there is an opinion cited in the Talmud that the blessing for beautiful acts of creation should be recited in regards to a gentile woman. Rambam states that nowadays a Jew is allowed to greet and give gifts to gentiles, so I do not think what has been stated in post #11 is majority opinion. Most of these prohibitions applied to idol worshippers in any event, and Moslems are obviously not idol worshippers, though their current support of terrorism is problematic, and there are additional complexities that Rabbi Abraham alluded to in his article. I hope this explanation helps wind down this controversy regarding praising non-Jews, though people with a comprehensive knowledge of Halacha could add to and correct any of my points.
28. chaya 15
jeff ,   jerusalem   (12.14.10)
Yes Chaya, it IS forbidden to comment on how great a gentile is or to give them gifts (unless they are a ger toshav). Its in the Talmud, and if you were educated, which you aren't you'd know that. If you want to see it for yourself, look up Avodah Zara, 20a.
29. This professor is the hillul hashem
Christopher Robbin ,   100 Acre Woods   (12.14.10)
for writing such a bland article! If you are going to slander 300 rabbis and label their opinion as a "distortion", you'd better actually bring some direct proof rather than just saying that one chief rabbi 60 years ago disagreed with them. For all of this professor's hysterical declarations, he never brings a shred of proof against the ban, he just makes a fool of himself.
30. regarding the halachic process
Micha ,   Tsfat, Israel   (12.14.10)
It is certainly true that changing circumstances influences the halacha. However, to understand how this worksand be able to do it requires much immersion in Torah, wisdom, creativity, and wisdom. Furthermore, this process must be informed by the referencing of Torah sources. All too often a position is opposed not out of an honest, sincere quest into what the Torah is telling us, but because this position conflicts with one's held notions and preconceptions. This is exceedingly dangerous and insidious, and leads to what is called "innovating in Torah in contradistinction to the halacha", a most severe crime in Torah.
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