Opinion
Bring us into equation
Emily Bernstein
Published: 30.12.10, 11:33
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31. A thought from a none Jew.
Orao. ,   Srbia.   (12.30.10)
Whom is a Jew ? If it is in Conection to Israel, then so called Jews in the Diaspora, must go back some 2000 years to find the Conection. What was a Jew then ? Surely then and Earlier , a Jew was in Conection to the Heritage from, Abraham - Isak and Jacob. That is to say - Everything written about it, in the Bible/Torah and the Prophets. That is as far as Im can se a Jew to me. Orao.Srbia.
32. #26 Avi
Harry ,   Jerusalem   (12.30.10)
Avi, Avi, Avi, yes, I am formally from the USA. There you went off the handle spewing your hatred of me and other Jewish people. You don't have to stand up or respect me, but just to clear the air, I have written many times before, that I DID SERVE in Tzhal, my son served too and my other son is presently in the Air Force, not the American Air Force, but the Israel Air Force. Also mr hot head, I pay my fair share of Taxes too. So let me understand, was your response another Jew bashing talkback or your frustration of not wanting or caring to understand, what being a Jew is all about. Obviously, from your talkback you do not care what a Jew is all about. Just know one thing Avi, Jews did not survive 4000 years because they acted or behaved like you. I still will respect you as a fellow Jew, no matter what you say or think.
33. Why didn't Emily care enough to study for conversion?
Sue ,   Los Angeles   (12.30.10)
I know people like Emily whose mothers were not Jews, but they had a desire to be 100 percent kosher, so they DID convert. It took a year or two of study. Big deal. Either Emily does not care enough about Judaism to study for the conversion, or is really a Christian, like some of my nieces and nephews from "interfaith" marriages. Israel already has 10,000 "Messianic Jews" - former Jews and non-Jews who believe in Christ. Originally called "Jews for Jesus," they changed their name to have more success luring Jews into their religion. One is now the top Messianic singer in the world, describing herself as a Jew while spreading Christianity from Israel. Israel needs more "real" Jews, not the aforementioned kind.
34. Complex and profound discussion
Oren ,   Bat Yam   (12.30.10)
Emily discusses an extremely imporant and exceedingly complex topic and she does it in a very elegant fashion. Her article is well-written and decidedly poignant. People that are quick to dismiss her plight are simply blinded by their own hatred and insecurities. She is who she is. No more no less Jew that Rabbi XYZ. At the end of the day, what the State of Israel thinks about her status and that of thousands of other people is mostly irrelevant, because her existence is undeniable and no law will ever change that fact, just like it didn't change the reality of any of our ancestors before 1948. However, our people should always feel compelled, if not obligated, to protect minorities anywhere, let alone in Eretz Israel. Food for thought: were you more proud of Israel at the time of Mivtza Moshe/Shlomo (when we decided to risk it all for minorities) or now that we are actively expelling refugees? Just a topic for reflection....
35. Harry #32
Yisraeli   (12.30.10)
Way to go Harry, I couldnt believe the hate-fest Avi put out on his comments. Self loathing jew. I read thru his rant once again, quite amazing really. Id rather he left the country seeing anything jewish is the antithesis to his being. With his way of thinking he has no right to the land and should leave as a colonialist. Without jewish history, jewish people, jewish heritage coupled with torah laws and tradition we have absolute no rights to be here in the first place. But no way will he understand that. His legitamacy starts with Umm Shmum vote of '47, and what will he do if and when they recind that vote by a two third majority? ah potz.
36. Emily wants to be Jewish? Convert, not hard
m   (12.30.10)
Anyone who wants to be a member of a club has to go through adherence of the rules of the specific club. Being Jewish in your heart with christmas threes is not enough.
37. Face it: you're not Jewish, stop whining about it
Yochanan ,   Amsterdam   (12.31.10)
Please marry a christian or muslim in IL (rather go back to the USA), DON'T marry a Jew, intermarriage is destructive!! The 'Reform movement' you grew up in, already causes A LOT of damage throughout the world by declaring people Jewish, while they're not. Stop whining about 'acceptance', there's only ONE Judaism. And 'your Judaism' simply doesn't excist.
38. worshiping the idol of "acceptance"
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (12.31.10)
good grief, don't people know by now that in this country trying to be accepted by people is the biggest waste of time? if you weren't born a certain way, forget it. you'll never be as accepted as you want to be no matter how hard you try. and converting? yeah, you'll be accepted and respected. that has worked out so well in the past. sad and miserable are the ones who crave acceptance by israelis. they know you want it and are loathe to give it without you paying a heavy price.
39. If your father's Jewish, just call yourself a Karaite Jew
Religion scholar ,   Jerusalem   (12.31.10)
Karaite/Karaim Jews follow only the Torah, not the later accretions of Rabbinic Judaism. According to the Torah, Jewishness is passed from the father, not the mother. So if your father's Jewish then you've always been a Jew.
40. after reading those comments
Chaim ,   Yiddishland   (12.31.10)
especially those demonstrating lack of respect and wishes that the author leaves the country she has full right to live in, let me say this very openly. 1. the understanding of "who is a Jew" as they are displayed by most of talkbackers are unjust and brutal. 2. why unjust? because matrilineal descent can worship whatever religion or atheism one pleases, yet being fully recognized as a Jew. But patrilineal descents are demanded to remove this freedom of choice and follow the strictest possible path to be accepted. 3. All of you who support such an approach have right to do it. But you must be honest and admit that the religious system you believe in supports injustice. Be honest. 4. Why brutal? Because regardless what such a person do with her identity, if she does not bow to the restrictive religious system, her efforts are scratched downto zero. If you are such a person, your life has a high chance to become quagmire. Within Judaism there is an explanation for matrilinearity: having Jewish mother the chance for worshipping Judaism are higher. But if a mother is an atheist, she will likely bring up the child in atheism! Still the child remains a Jew and noone makes a problem.
41.  "Salma" probably YNET staffer
YnetsPhonySalma ,   china and israel   (12.31.10)
There are few if any dedicated Arabs emailers to YNET most likely the infamous "Salma" is an obsessed lonely Tel Avivian or YNET staffer ( same thing ) who sees her world view collapsing before her very eyes have pity on poor "Salma"
42. 38 is his Christian view of halacha
(12.31.10)
43. 42 hey paqid, i thought you didn't like anonymous posters?
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (12.31.10)
so you can neither read nor do what you say. it's what we've come to expect.
44. Nr 42.
Orao. ,   Srbia.   (12.31.10)
This is no Serbian Christian-Orthodox Wiev. Seems as bouth of You are Either anti-Jewish or Anti-Christians or bouth. Bouth of You are in Error. Orao.Srbia,
45. What about us ?
olim hadashim ,   tel aviv/israel   (12.31.10)
The author is clearly not responsible for her parents choice.On the other hand she has also no right to trample on the rigths of the jewish people and to argue about laws and regulations which has kept us alive for thousans of years.
46. 43 Paqid only one who knows ur Christian? UR obsessed! LOL
Religious Jew ,   Israel   (12.31.10)
47. 46 - you are the only one that ever calls me out on it
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (12.31.10)
since mr obsession feels the need to state the obvious, yet again he exposes his self as the fraud and hypocrite he is. you're your own worst advertisement, you know.
48. Who is a REAL Jew
John DeLancy ,   Alaska, USA   (01.01.11)
This reminds me of someone saying that for someone who self-identifies as a Jew, I don't have a Jewish name. Had I instead been signing my posts "Yonah Wenit" (married name of my mom, Adina Wenit, who was definitively so true to her Jewish faith that her example was what converted her husband, Rachmiel Wenit, a Jew by birth who lived most of his life as an athiest), then "Yonah Wenit" would not have raised any eyebrows. Especially if I instead used Wenitsky (my stepdad's family's name before they fled persecution in Russia). But really - if that was my name, I would consider posting under a pseudonym like Johann Christiansen, so that I could see who the real Jews are. Because really, someone who is an ish Elohim will see past the name or appearance of someone and ask instead what that person says about Adonai Elohe Yisroel (and if his life matches his words). Because that is what that same Adonai would be looking for. He won't judge as a man would. He would not say, "you won't do much for me because your great grandmother was not even one of the children of Israel, but instead a Moabitess." Instead, He will say, "you are a man after My own heart." If their looks and names and customs even seem more suited to India close to Bengal or Ethiopia or Petrograd or America - perhaps it would be wise to look beyond the physical to their spirit. Because that is where someone is or is not a Jew, at least in the sight of the Almighty.
49. #25: Law of return not based on halacha
Tobias   (01.01.11)
#25: So you would deny someone who is persecuted in his home country because of his jewish father, the entry to Israel - just because his "wrong" parent is jewish? - That's not the intention of Israeli Immigration law. Israel was founded as a save place for people who are persecuted for being jewish - and the persecuters, the enemys of jews, usually don't ask for the halacha. The nazis would kill people because one of their parents, or even one of their grandparents were jewish ... regardless whether it was the father or the mother. Thus, for immigration it shouldn't be any difference wheter the father is jewish and the mother not, or reversed.
50. Emily with all due respect...
(01.01.11)
Just because your parents didn't care about Judaism enough to do the right thing (that is convert) or at least convert you...why do I have to lower my standards in order to accept you? I would strongly urge you to raise your standards and convert to Judaism
51. Patrilineal descent worked for 2,000 years
Vered, Israel   (01.01.11)
Then the Rabbis came and changed it. For 2,000 years the author would have been considered a Jew (during the time of Tanach). However, the Rabbis did a 180. The State of Israel needs to repair this wrong now that we are back in our Land, and recognize patrilineal descent.
52. As a 41-year veteran citizen of Israel
Michael Davison ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (01.02.11)
Who has served in the IDF, worked in the defense establishment, married and have children who served in the IDF, I can sympathize with Emily. My father was Christian, my mother was a Jew. According to the present definitions of halakha, I am supposed to be considered Jewish, too. Throughout the years of my life in Israel, the question has been raised to me more than once--indeed, more than a hundred times--"Why are you here, in Israel?" I generally answer that I chose to serve in the IDF rather than go to Vietnam, which satisfies most of the unthinking idiots like some of the posters for this article, but that's not the whole truth. The whole truth is that this is my home--whether the bigoted rabbis who make "racial purity" as big a deal as the Nazis did, but in reverse. In general, olim from the West face a bureaucracy that is prejudiced against us, even when we are Jewish according to halakha. We have to fight to receive oleh rights that come automatically to Eastern European olim, even those with "doubtful" ancestry. Emily doesn't mention which parent was Jewish, the only inference was the question, "are you going to convert" hints that it was her father. Even in the "enlightened" United States, it was no wonderful thing to be considered a Jew... I had enough schoolyard brawls with groups of Christian kids over being one of the "Christ killers" (among other things). The parent who taught me to hold my own in such brawls was... my Christian father, who taught me all the dirty fighting trick necessary to remain the "last man standing"--the same tricks my opponents called "dirty Jew tricks". Even my brother-in-law, prior to my marriage with his sister,m asked me no less than five times if I "was sure my mother was Jewish". If serving in the IDF, shedding my blood in two wars, making my home and raising a family here doesn't make me Jewish, what does? It makes more sense to embrace those of us who had the choice and freely decide we were Jews than to embrace those who come to Israel out of economic hardship to take advantage of the oleh rights, yet celebrate Christmas and wear a cross--yet many talkbackers here condemn this woman (and by inference, me and all those like me) who have made more positive contributions to the country, despite our small number, than ten times the number of opportunists taking advantage of their "rights" because they had a Jewish grandmother. As long as we continue to defined "who is a Jew" by halakha alone, without considering the personal commitment of the individual, we justify Shlomo Sand's viewpoint that we're not a nation. With all due respect to the learned rabbis, their place is in the Torah study halls, not in politics.
53. welcome to Israel!
Gene ,   tlv israel   (01.02.11)
i grew up among many American adn Russian Jews of patrilineal descent and I can say many were more Jewish and staunchly zionist than many of the Jews with Jewish parents- and that includes some Orthodox Jews among them! I honour and recognize the author's embracing of Judaism and her dedication to Israel - so should everyone else!
54. we dont change the system because individuals dont like it
zionist forever   (01.02.11)
Israel is officially a jewish state and the events that take place are designed to represent that and sorry if these people don't feel represented but thats just how it goes. Think about how the arabs must feel. The national symbols are all jewish, most streets are named after zionists, jewish politicians or major figures from Judaism. The country is of course officially a jewish sate so there is nothing at all that represents arab culture so why should we start going all out to represent interfaith culture? As for laws on who is eligible under the Law of Return & conversion etc that is where clarification is required. Officially if your grandparents are jewish then your eligible. With conversion in theory only an orthodox conversion is recognised. There is a need to introduce strict guidelines on this sort of thing and on the evidence needed to make alliyah because right now its a joke based on who you deal when your dealing with the legal work. I remember when I made alliyah from the UK with the Jewish Agency they wanted my parents ketubah, letters from the synagogue and all kinds of things and they never seemed to be satisfied. I was at an absorbtion centre I met an American. He had never been to Israel in his life. He had no interest in religion was and had no legal evidence to proove he was Jewish. The only reason he was even coming to Israel was because he was bankrupt & thought because of the benefits package olim get then it would make it easier for him to start over in Israel rather than the US. In the end the Jewish Agency accepted as proof of jewishness a photograph of him standing by his grandmothers grave because he had a jewish name. I had all kinds of official proof od jewisness and they kept asking for more. All he needed to do was get photograph taken of himself standing next to a jewish woman's grave. We need a standard set of rules that will apply to everybody no matter who they are or where they come from. No more mickey mouse conversions, and different standards of what acceptable proof of jewishness wiil be accepted worldwide. If we don't have a struct set of rules there is no point in even saying jews have a right to emigrate to Israel and non jews do not.
55. #52 Herzl's Zionism
Logic ,   Israel   (01.02.11)
Your concluding sentence reminds me how far Israel has drifted from Herzl's original vision of keeping the rabbis in their synagogues (and the generals in their barracks.)
56. Emily, Other Half-Jewish People Support You
Robin Margolis ,   Washington, DC   (01.11.11)
Dear Emily: Please pay no attention to the hate messages saying that you are not Jewish. I'm the Coordinator of the Half-Jewish Network, the largest international organization for adult children and grandchildren of intermarriage. We are on your side.
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