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Officers criticize IDF analysis of Bilin protestor's death
Hanan Greenberg
Published: 04.01.11, 22:53
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31. #26 Salami
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL   (01.05.11)
Dont' cause trouble, there'll be no reason to use teargas If it causes problems when inhaling avoid it by staying away from riots and the like
32. Typical excuses
Larry ,   London, England   (01.05.11)
by an occupying army disobeying the rulings of its own supreme court.
33. #19/20 Blinding us with science...when
Mark ,   Lodz, Poland   (01.05.11)
..fact is, Doctor the facts, is that, IF indeed she was there...she shouldn't have been with a medical history such as hers. Furthermore, it's quite unbecoming for somebody of your 'stature' to compare the Naqba with the Holocaust. The murder of a third of the world's Jewish population - 6 million souls can hardly be equated with a largely voluntary and temporary exodus of 600/700 thousand Arabs from Palestine in 1948. Temporary? Yes,..while 5 Arab armies 'pushed the Jews into the sea'. Didn't happen Ben.. and now who's crying. (I'm not even touching on the expulsion of Iraqi and Syrian Jews from their homes, factories and businesses..that's a case in itself). The Arabs who stayed put, hedged their bet right. You are an ingrate, the IDF saved your life in Lebanon and all you can do is diss them. Speaks reams
34. #33 Mark, Jawaher had no previoud medical history of note...
Ben Alofs ,   Bangor, UK   (01.05.11)
The only problem she had was a recent ear infection in the wake of a common cold. The ear infection caused the collection of fluid in her ear and a persistent headache. She was seen by an Ear, Nose and Throat specialist, who requested a CT scan of her head. I have a copy of the result: it was completely normal. The ENT doctor advised her to use warm water to wash out her ears. Jawaher was not on any medication at all. Therefore if a young woman in her 30s collapses following exposure to tear gas, and vomits and froths at the mouth and subsequently dies in the intensive care unit on a ventilator, because her lungs are failing her, it can be very reasonably assumed that she died because of CS gas inhalation, which - if inhaled in sufficiently high concentrations - can kill. I have researched the use of tear gas during the first Intifada and published the results under the title "More Than Tear Gas. Harassing Agents and Their Use in the Israeli Occupied Territories" (Amsterdam 1988). I have documented in a period from December 1987 to August 1988 the deaths of at least 62 Palestinians, ranging from the very young to the very old, following exposure to tear gas. At least 12 women with advanced pregnancies miscarried as a result of tear gas exposure. Israeli soldiers at that time lobbed tear gas canisters inside houses and created massive cloud in village streets and other built up areas! It was only after MK Dedi Zucker raised hell that the army imposed rules on the use of tear gas, resulting in a sudden dramatic fall of tear gas related deaths! Personally I would have wanted that Jawaher underwent a postmortem. But it is difficult to organize an independent post mortem, because the only site in Israel/Palestine is in Abu Kabir, which has not exactly an impeccable reputation when it comes to doing post mortems on dead Palestinians (and Jews for that matter)! Ask Dr Yehuda Hiss, the chief pathologist at Abu Kabir.
35. Nonsense article!!She did not attend the demonstration!!
arthur ,   israel   (01.05.11)
Even Haartetz with its own flawed and purely Arab investigation admits she did not attend the demonstration and as a result cannot die from tear gas. Pure Arab lies again and the lefties fall for it.
36. #19 - not quiet...because Naqba wasn't forced on Arabs
William ,   Israel   (01.05.11)
and most of the documentation of Arab involvement in the Naqba are widely ignored in order to promote a false narrative. Conversely, the Holocaust is extremely well-documented and well-researched already, and was based on a racist supremacy that targeted minorities solely because of race, despite those people being excellent and loyal citizens of their birth countries. The Naqba was the result of the same racism that brought the Holocaust, by instigating attacks on Jews simply based on racial supremacy. Infact, one of the choreographers of the "naqba" took part in the Holocaust, with a goal of extending the genocide to the Middle East. So, you're right - the Maqba and Holocaust ARE related....and both targeted Jews for genocide...and both times, Jews survived and prospered. Though I'm sure your side will deny Arabs did anything wrong and always extended their hand in peace.
37. 35 Arthur, please stop the denial
Ben Alofs ,   Bangor, UK   (01.05.11)
Maan News Agency and other news sites published a copy of the ambulance sheet, recording times and circumstances of how paramedics of the Palestine Red Crescent Society attended to Jawaher Abu Rahme, examined her, gave her oxygen en route to the hospital. There are at least 4 other witnesses who testified, how Jawaher collapsed and how they tried to bring her to an area with clean air. Her employer also stated that on the day before she attended the demonstration she was at work. What you read in Haaretz were the unfounded claims of the army officials, who refuse to quote their source. They were engaged in pure speculation. The IDF officers who criticized these officials, were quite right. With the evidence being collected they are making fools of themselves.
38. #20 - you're welcome to provide the "proof" you have
William ,   Israel   (01.05.11)
but it sounds more like your's is nothing but conjecture, just like Jonathan Pollack's, who's own language indicated his doubt in the real events and the condition of this protester, before, during, and after the protest. Israel has every right, and legal/moral obligation to question the obvious holes in the PA's story. There has been too many stories the PA put forth and turned out to be lying. Jenin Massacre, death of Al-Dura, civilian count in Cast Lead, and the list goes on. The onus is on the "Palestinians" to provide the proof as to the IDF's guilt and the cause of this woman's death, including pre-existing conditions. Until they exume the body and do an autopsy, IDF guilt is simply speculation. Trying to play the "poor family" card is one of the last refuge's of the morally-defunct Left who never question why: 1) someone with an existing condition would be stupid enough to protest where tear gas is used in the first place, and always, 2) that NO ONE else even received a headache from the tear gas out of 1000 people. Personally, I believe the use of ear-splitting noise to induce vomiting and bowel movements are best used against these weekly violent protests.
39. #26 - if it were deadly...wouldn't more people have died?
William ,   Israel   (01.05.11)
In the past 10 years of violent Bilin protests and only Jaberwacky died? Sounds about as deadly as spraying them with humus. You really should start by stop using DEADLY rocks, guns, and suicide bombers, then maybe the fence could come down as it did in Gilo.
40. #29 - it's no lie that you hate the army and want it castrat
William ,   Israel   (01.05.11)
Shame on you for putting your personal hatred of the army ahead of justice and truth. What IF this woman died from something other than tear gas? Shouldn't it be the right for the public and her family to know the truth? This isn't the first time the "Palestinians" have made martyrs out of those who died from other causes in order to further their nationalistic agenda. Why would you agree to hurt the "Palestinian" national psyche by allowing them to live in a world of concocted lies that they now believe is their true narrative? You are a sap...from Tel Aviv, no doubt....to put Israel on the same level with North Korea, a massive human rights abuser and proven guilty of shelling civilians on purpose, while this protest incident is still not fully understood or known. Shame on you for believing in conjecture as "fact". Too bad you don't have the guts to ask for the truth because it *might* hurt your own shaky narrative.
41. #32 - Israeli Supreme Court has no jurisdiction in WB
William ,   Israel   (01.05.11)
They can provide their opinion ruling but in the WB, the army has the jurisdiction there. And that day, this was a closed military zone, descended upon by 1000 anarchists who immediately engaged in violent protests. Just as in WTO protests or Greek Austerity protests, the use of tear gas was justified and expected. If these anarchists got hurt from it, it's their own damn fault. The Jenin Mayor talking about the drop in crime in his city, and the "Palestinian" Islamic Jihad crying on Al-Jazeera that the wall blocks their attempts at suicide attacks within Israel are all we need to know to justify the wall. Sadly, the supreme court IGNORED those issues when it made the ruling.
42. #34 - based on Pollack's testimony
William ,   Israel   (01.05.11)
Only Pollack said he "believed" that Jwaher had an ear infection previously. The "Palestinians" refused to release ANY medical history of Jawaher even though the drugs administered to her in the hospital resembled those used for Leukemia.
43. #37 Ben Alofs
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL   (01.06.11)
Ambulance records could have easily been altered or manufactured to suit the occasion What's really needed is an autopsy by an independent outside medical examiner, which should have been performed before they buried her witth such hase It's still not too late, they can disinter and perform the Autopysy now, which would end all this discussion, one way or the other Fprget they wotmesses they are notorious for giving perjured testimony, just as they did in the Mohammed Al Durah case We've seen old pictures of her, I can't recall seeing any of her participating in this demonstration If such an item existed, your guys would have posted in days ago
44. #34 Ben Casey
Cynthia ,   USA   (01.06.11)
More speculation on your part. Care to explain what makes you a medical expert on this case with access to confidential medical reports? There's no evidence placing this woman at the protest or near any tear gas exposure. There are reports she collapsed vomiting on the floor of her home and family members initially tried to carry her to the car to transport her to the hospital. Other reports note she was taking medication and received treatment ten days earlier for leukemia. You can see from her photo that she looks sickly. What you've described sounds very much like a stroke that brought her to the hospital and prevented her from breathing on her own. She may have died from treatment or medication administered at the hospital and this may even be a cover-up. Accusing Israel while withholding evidence makes this incident highly suspicious.
45. #44, small question...
jerusalem   (01.06.11)
"You can see from her photo that she looks sickly." After just looking at her picture (http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/palestinian-woman-dies-after-teargas-attack-at-protest-2174666.html), I would like to ask: in your opinion, what exactly makes her look "sickly"?
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