Court: Segregation only upon consent
Shahar Haselkorn
Published: 06.01.11, 11:44
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
31 Talkbacks for this article
1. Why doesn't the court
Abe   (01.06.11)
rather give permission for the ultra-Orthodox to allow them to have their own buses? How's that in a democratic country that Egged should have the exclusive rights and no one may compete with them with another bus company? The answer is: that Israel is NOT a democracy and never was and most likely never will be. Its founders are Russian and based the government on the Russian communist system and it continues doing so.
2. Segregation is good for the woman!
Sarah B ,   U.S.A./ Israel   (01.06.11)
3. cant wait till we drop this bogus democracy altogether
naftali ,   israel   (01.06.11)
democracy in this part of the world just aint working !!!
4. I know I shall not be missed
Sagi   (01.06.11)
My first thought is that I renounce my citizenship and leave this country. I am disgusted and do not wish to live in a country that permits such archaic nonsense. The fact that the Supreme Court endorses this and gives it free license is adding injury to insult. I would like to fight this religious coercion, on all fronts, but I believe it is a lost cause. I am very sad at this obnoxious decision. Women should be exalted and not deprecated, they are the fountain of life.
5. To # 2
Dave ,   Bs.Aires-Argentina   (01.06.11)
For the content of your post, I think that you are an impostor, a "fake" Sarah B., please don´t attemp to cheat us. P.S. Regarding the Kosher Buses, we MUST remember the fight in USA several years ago (That continues nowadays), for the segregation between "Blacks" and "Whites", regarding the rest rooms, buses, bars, cinemas, schools, etc, etc. As time is going by, it seems that, sadly, there is a "Talibanization" of our beloved Medinath of Israel. AM ISRAEL CHAI
6. Jim Crow Laws In Israelistan
World Citizen ,   the world   (01.06.11)
And these laws will increase as the demographics of your sad country change. The haradim are breeding like rabbits. They will be the majority in 30 years. They don't work, don't serve in the military, don't pay taxes. It won't be long and your women will be wearing the Israeli equivalent of burkas.
7. passengers agree
Zev ,   Israel   (01.06.11)
Do Haredi women really have free will?
8. Segregation=Discrimination
Yakov ,   Tel Aviv   (01.06.11)
Segregation means unequal. Man in front and women in back. Why not the other way around. In fact, why don't the men push the bus, and save on fuel? The Haredi community is so focused upon being religious, they often fail to understand the laws they follow. Segregation is a Jewish custom, and not promulgated in the Torah. The citations used to justify segregation, are an interpretation, not a law. This is immaterial, as men and women are equal and it is wrong to impose discriminatory segregation. It always results with men in the lead, and women following. This is disrespectful to both men and women.
9. To 1
Z ,   Israel   (01.06.11)
I believe you are confusing capitalism and democracy. There are things called social democracies, in case you aren't aware. For instance, most nations only have one international airline carrier, a NATIONALIZED carrier who also runs as a privately owned corporation. In this case, there are 3 bus companies in Israel: Egged, Dan, and Superbus, therefore, your entire argument is flawed, not to mention flat out wrong in the first place. The ultra orthodox are more than allowed to start a privately owned bus company that runs exclusively for them, there has never been a ruling against it. Fact of the matter is that they have never mentioned it, instead trying to coerce others into bending to their ways. If anything, this is a victory to libertarianism and democracy in that no individual can be resloved to sit in a specified area of a bus based on their gender: a very totalitarian principle. Finally, get your facts straight, the Israeli democratic system is based off the French 2nd Congressional System. A communist system doesn't allow any party other than the solitary nationalized party.
10. Sarah - 2 - move to Iran!
Chaya ,   Tel Aviv   (01.06.11)
I want to know what will happen the first time a woman says that she doesn't want to sit in the back on one of those buses!
11. #Sagi - grow up. This is not about you.
rebecca ,   Modiin   (01.06.11)
This is about women, many of whom are perfectly happy sitting at the back of a bus, away from selfish men like you.
12. Welcome to The Islamic Republic Of Kosher
Israeli ,   T.A   (01.06.11)
13. a logical conclusion
I light of a recent well-publicized trial, this is good news. If men and women sit together, a relationship may develop, someone might misunderstand something, and years later be accused of rape. When men and women are separated, these things won't happen.
14. Welcome to The Republic Of Kosher
TA. Israel   (01.06.11)
15. re 9:If state funds are used then should be open of all
Bloodyscot ,   Dallas, Texas   (01.06.11)
If its a private company and riders are paying total cost then I agree with you on who can ride. Others should also be able to start their own bus lines and follow the same routes if they choose too but I fear neither is truly the case here, more facts needed to tell.
16. Gender Segregation
American Sabrah ,   Givas Shmilkeh   (01.06.11)
As someone who is religious and rational at the same time, I believe gender segregation should only be limited to synagogues and not imposed in public facilities.Perhaps the Haredim should start their own private bus line if they want gender separate seating instead of Egged and Dan caving into their standards. This way we all get what we want and be happy.
17. HA HA HA HA HAA!!!! Kudos to the High Court
Talula ,   Israel   (01.06.11)
I like to be reminded sometimes that the system doesn't fail us all of the time. Suck it up! If you don't want to sit next to a woman, then walk!
18. # 10
Birdi ,   Israel   (01.06.11)
Chaya, # 2 is not Sarah B's post. Its the impersonator striking again.
19. Even in Iran, women are not forced to sit in back of bus
Rami of Nazareth ,   Israel   (01.06.11)
20. The Bus decision
Ger ,   Raanana, Israel`   (01.06.11)
This is not over. There will be forced segregation, harassment, and violence, and the bus companies and drivers will be unable to prevent it. Unfortunately, the "freedom riders" will face the same issues, and it will be back in the courts within a very short time.
21. As a disabled haredi woman
Babishka ,   Mea Shearim   (01.06.11)
I would not ride in one of these buses even if it meant walking uphill both ways. Feh!
22. A curtain, mechitzeh in the---
Ely Greenhut ,   Tzfat Israel   (01.06.11)
Center of the bus running from the front to the bah would solve this issue. Example Monsey trails in New York. As a result, Women can sit in the front too. I guess with EGGED that is not possible.
23. #2 Sarah B
jo moor   (01.06.11)
I'm surprised at you. Confucius says: sex is bad for one (so is segregation too) but it is good for 2. Maybe the men should sit at the back or take a hike i.e walk. What utter bs this segregation nonsense is. Do they want it separate to show porno movies on their phones in front??
24. #9 If you don't know the truth, keep quiet
Abe   (01.06.11)
The ultra orthodox are NOT more than allowed to start a privately owned bus company that runs exclusively for them. There HAS been a ruling against it by Israel’s "democratic" court!!! The haredim tried making their own buses but Egged sued them and had them shut down. In response Egged promised to make more Mehadrin lines. It’s because of Egged’s exclusive rights that the Mehadrin lines started in the first place. Finally, get your facts straight about Israel’s "democracy". Even voting is not democratic. You vote for the Right and end up with the Left because the Left have the power, the media and the justice system. The Right may not even have their own radio station. And the court, the neighborhood bully, which no one elected or selected, is far from a democratic body. It is a Leftist entity that continues to battle Torah and halachah life. In a democratic country, the judges are elected democratically. In Israel, the judges are self-appointed and have been electing their own cronies since the creation of the State to run the State and the justice department INDEFINITELY? Where exactly do you see democracy in Israel?
25. Bloodyscot, clarification
Z ,   Israel   (01.06.11)
Egged does receive state funding. It is the bus carrier that IDF soldiers ride for free and therefore is a state owned bus line. The fact is that there are privately owned bus lines in Israel, anyone who has ever lived or been to Jerusalem would know because there are the Arab only bus lines. These are privately owned and have no connection to the state what-so-ever. The fact of the matter is that nobody in the haredi community has sought to start their own bus line. If they said that they have tried but they are being denied the ability to, that's a different case altogether. Here, they are trying to change a nationalized carrier to suit their will since, well, let's be honest, the state has somehow bent to the will of the very few. They tried and finally have lost a case that involves the religious and the state. It will now be interesting to see what happens next when there is another grievance.
26. ,segregated' bus lines
moron ,   galut   (01.06.11)
put men at the back to reduce harassment and leave them there until they learn for women they should enjoy riding in front and forget about 'equality';
27. #21 Why wouldn't you ride on a segregated bus?
Talula ,   Israel   (01.06.11)
I would just like to hear what you have to say.
28. Abe, Wrong Again
Z ,   Israel   (01.06.11)
If you knew anything about the ruling against the Haredi bus lines, you would know that it was because they didn't file for the proper licensing that is needed to run a public transportation line. If they would realize that there is an established law in place and you can't just go off and do what you want, then they could properly navigate the bureaucratic channels to start the bus line. (Yes, I'm well aware that bureaucracy here is awful and takes a long, long time, but I'm sure an issue like this would expadite the process). What you stated about democracy is merely theoretical and an awfully ridiculous thing you are saying. Instead of stating facts you are stating what you feel, now that is opinion and has no bearing in anything that was said earlier. Either way, I think our governmental structure is messed up and I think that the direct election of MKs is in everyone's interest. When it comes to judges, many democratic nations, including the US and the UK don't directly elect senior judges, they are appointed by the President or the PM. In fact, I can't think of a single supreme court in a democratic nation across the world that has their judges elected by citizens. And no, the judges are not self-appointed. They are appointed by the Judicial Selection Committee, just like they would be ratified by the Senate in the US.
29. I DO NOT CONCENT! (if u agree, hit recommend) thank u
Sally Forth ,   Jerusalem of course!   (01.06.11)
30. A court of cowards...
Mikesailor ,   Miami, FL   (01.06.11)
It seems that, instead of acknowledging the right of any bus rider to sit wherever he, or she, chooses, the court tries to have it both ways. It allows 'voluntary' segregation but forbids forcible segregation. This is ludicrous to say the least. If women, or men, wish to sit in the back of the bus, that is their right. If they wish to sit in the front of the bus, that is their right. There is no such animal as 'voluntary' segregation any more than there is a right to state-sponsored and enforced 'voluntary' discrimination. Why is that so hard to understand?
Next talkbacks
Back to article