Jewish Scene
Did golden calf cause Carmel blaze?
Yoav Zitun
Published: 07.01.11, 08:20
Comment Comment
Print comment Print comment
Back to article
53 Talkbacks for this article
1. Of course it was the occupation.
Poser Uselesskin   (01.07.11)
2. It's the debauchery of the haredi rabbis that did it
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (01.07.11)
Nice poster, but we all know that the real reason for strife in our communities is the sinat hinam of the haredi leaders. Look at Eli Yishai himself, who sinned publicly by slandering in public MK Chaim Amsellem, who had the temerity to challenge Shas and suggesting that maybe Jews should work for their reward (parnasa). The foul language and unbridled hatred from the haredi community is the true source of sin in this country. They are supposed to lead by the example of midot tovot - yet we see only slander, fraud, greed and graft from them.
3. Ponting the finger
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (01.07.11)
What Shas & friends seem to forget that pointing a finger at someone or something has 3 fingers pointing back at themselves! They will blame anything to obfuscate the fact that the interior minister and the Shas party are & were busy pushing for more funds and exercising more control over the general public instead of looking to the essentials of their responsibility,; like the fire department infrastructure, manpower & equipment. Their preoccupation with themselves is not the cause of the fire itself but is the cause of the extent of the disaster caused by this fire. It is high time, separate religion & politics. Insist that misters stick to the improvement of their areas of responsibility for all the public not just one sector.
4. More efficent fence needed
Dr D ,   Jerusalem   (01.07.11)
to seal off the largest mad house in the world. We became a serious menace to the mental sanity of the rest of our planet.
5. why not blame shabbat elevators and appliances?
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (01.07.11)
all that electricity that runs such things doesn't just generate itself.
6. And how do you know that this wasn't the reason??
Chaya ,   Tel Aviv   (01.07.11)
7. But We Are A Golden Calf Society
SecularRealityCheck ,   china and israel   (01.07.11)
The secular society of which I am one is in total denial of the excesses of the society we have created and it needs wake up calls like this from time to time blaming the rabbis for everything and hypocrysy is a way of covering up the horrors Israeli society with regards to sex money and power.The values of the Torah to such has equal if not more validity than those purveyors of the excesses of a so called democratic society to dance its way into a burning flame.
8. The truth hurts
Shalom ,   Ashdod, Israel   (01.07.11)
The Torah states that we should keep the Shabbat and that we also know that sinners receives what is due to them. What is so hard to understand in these two simple statements? You can blame the government, the boys who started the fire but the bottom line is if we were living on the right track, then Hashem would not have allowed it to happen. BUT since we are not, then do not get surprised and more important do not shoot the messanger (in this case Rav Ovadia Yosef) but look at the message. Keep the Shabbat and it will keep you. If you light a fire on Shabbat then why do you get surprised when a fire gets back at you.
9. To #8
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (01.07.11)
What truth are you talking about? The fire was not started by Jews so what shabbat sin was commited? Hashem helps those who help themselves, one is not supposed to do nothing and rely on Hashem. Your whole premise is faulty if you imply that nothing should have been done. In any case who or how the fire started is not the issue. The issue is the extent of the disaster that could have been gratly reduced had we been properly equipt & staffed. The stae of unreadiness is directly the fault of Eli Yishai If he were a "mench" he would resign.
10. Time to seperate religion from state
Avi ,   Israel   (01.07.11)
If only his Royal holliness Ayatollah supreme spiritual leader was concerned as much as to what comes out of his vile mouth as he is as to what goes in to it. A wicked vile man who uses religion as a means to fund his cult and extract millions of the Israeli public taxes, while contributing nothing with those bleeting sheep kissing his hand which only goes to inflatge his twisted ego.
11. 7 Secular , Kol Hakavod.
ORA ,   Jerusalem   (01.07.11)
We can only better what we admit.You made a step in the right direction.May G-D help you to continue with success.Shabat Shalom.
12. Shalom , it's DISGUSTING
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (01.07.11)
The same kind of bs was said regarding the Shoa . Where was this god then ? Why did this "guy" allow the Shoa to happen ? Simply : there is NO such thing as what you call a god .
13. The fire wasn't a coincidence
Prove to this is that a religious kibutz close by was the only one that did not burn down. In another kibutz, a secular one, the fire burned that whole place down except for the synagogue. YESH DIN VEYESH DAYAN!
14. to #12
glaser ,   Cesarea Israel   (01.07.11)
I do not know what is the cause of the fire neither I know the reasons of the Shoa or the pogroms etc... we can find in our history may of the catastrophes and for some that did happen in the Torah we have the explanation and for other we do not have the explanation. I do not believe that today anybody can give the reason for sure and to blame one side or the other side is ridiculous and damageable for all the Jews not only in Israel but also in the world. I think that everybody should look in his own backyard and start cleaning up the mess. The Haredim first because they are supposed to study and to know what to do and for sure not to speak Lachon Ara and the secular should also respect a little more the Torah and to build a golden calf is not a joke it is the biggest stupidity you can do and it shows the emptiness and the desire to prove to yourself that you are right because inside of you there is a voice that tells you that you are Jewish and you should go back to Hachem but you do not want to hear it because that will mean killing your GAAVA and that dear Charles you have a lot. who are you to judge God? take time go and study a little beat and think about how stupid is your statement. Shabbat Shalom to all klal Israel
15. Charles you seem to be a very farbissener
Al   (01.07.11)
meshumid with a very narrow view of things. I would suggest you take a trip abroad and realize that although Israel has its faults etc and that the people seem to be at each others throats, it pales in comparison to what golus life is all about. You don't to seem to understand the Jews of Israel are under constant attack. Their very lives are in danger 24/7. They are the focal point of very two bit anti-semite out there. Of course under such strain, you go nuts..You start acting like an asshole. That would include the constant anti-Jewish bleepings coming out of your sour farpisht piske.
16. debauchery,,,,and fire,,,,,,
Jerry ,   Grove Oklahoma   (01.07.11)
As a Born-Again Christian,,,I Love the Jewish People.All inclusive.I just wish you all would wake up !! G-d of the Torah,,,has promised you ALL,so many Blessings,,,if ONLY you would turn to Him. I cant say the fire was judgement,,,,but I can say it IS coming to the whole worls very,very soon.It is time to LOOK UP,your redemption draws near.
17. To # 13
Ariel ,   São Paulo - Brazil   (01.07.11)
Did you ear about the religious school YEMIN ORD? by the way what is the name of the Religious kibutz?
18. To #9
Shalom ,   Ashdod, Israel   (01.07.11)
You missed my point. When I was talking about lighting fire on Shabbat I was referring to the widespread desecration of the Shabbat that you see everywhere in Israel. What is important is not who started the fire but its rapid spread which is related to the public desecration of the Shabbat ALL OVER Israel and not just in the Carmel. You can have all the latest equipment but without the help of Hashem nothing will work. This is the meaning of the phrase (Mida ki neged mida) that the sinners will get their proper due.
19. To # 12
Shalom ,   Ashdod, Israel   (01.07.11)
We cannot understand the reason why so many perished in the Shoa. The Torah tells us that only 20% of the Jews left Egypt with Moshe so what happened to the rest? Simple, they perished. The question of reward and punishment is not just meted out in this world. For those of us who believe, there will be a world-to-come and accounts to settle then. Now really ask yourself if there was no G-d, then who is holding the world, stars and sun in their orbits. I promise you it is not the American dollar or Bill Gates computer or Kadima and other lefties but a Creator who has a special program and pays special attention to everything that He created including you.
20. al , 15 , I will not fall at your low level
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (01.07.11)
and give you names you deserve . "people" as you are , are only adding to my distanciation of religion .
21. To 14 Glaser
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (01.07.11)
You can't give the reason of this fire , but a poster in Holon's rabbinate does . And that's disgusting for me . Don't try to convince me to "go back to hashem" , for me this is an inexisting thing . I don't need to believe in tales . For me the torah is only a history book , with some nice stories people in the dark middle ages could believe . Other's need the "laws" to behave correctly , i not . I don't judge a "god" . something inexisting can't be judged . .
22. These same idiots
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (01.07.11)
Put up posters all over Mea Shearim after the #2 bus bomb attack in Jerusalem, claiming that the bus and its passengers were destroyed because men & women were not seated separately.
23. I am (thankfully) not a theologian ...
John DeLancy ,   Alaska, USA   (01.07.11)
So I may be speaking out of turn here. But I think I remember from _Job_, that people who are debating why something awful happened to someone are rightly called "miserable comforters." There may be a time to say "Why did this awful thing happen," but perhaps we can comfort the people suffering from the horrific effects of the Carmel fire first, and then discuss the why question, preferably privately, afterward? Thanks!
24. To #13
John DeLancy ,   Alaska, USA   (01.07.11)
This might make sense on the surface, but it reminds me of a tornado that happened nearly 20 years ago in what we Americans call "Sin City": Las Vegas, NV. One of the buildings destroyed was a wonderful church with sincere people who loved the Almighty in their way and did good things for the people around them. The tornado stopped just shy of one of the big gambling dens there. Sometimes bad things happen to good people and good things happen to people we wouldn't say are so good. I think that our responsibility to others is to comfort people who are hurting first, then afterward discuss with them why they are hurting. Remember HaShem does not want us to rejoice when our very enemy is hurting, because it may anger Him and then He'll stop doing what made them hurt. Also remember, the Almighty takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked (the most hurt one can lay on someone). That tells me that bad things happening is not a Good Thing. That doesn't mean we don't _MAKE_ bad things happen to people who are about to do worse things. The Most High has ordained an IDF for exactly that purpose, and has made them very effective at His mission of keeping Israel safe from those who would do her harm. But He also made doctors, and doctors don't ask a person's particulars until they are stabilized. A drowning person can't repent (return to the plan of the Almighty for them) if you don't thrown them a lifesaver. (again, there's a difference between "can't repent" and "won't repent". The former may be confused or stupid, and either way need help as well as counsel. The latter have chosen their way - I'm not saying waste _ANY_ effort on them)
25. What is everyone complaining about
Ron ,   Melbourne, Australia   (01.08.11)
I do not understand what everyone is complaining about. It is clear that the Religious folks are projecting their desires onto what they expect their GOD to act like. If they want to advertise a evil GOD why stop them - it shows the true nature of what is important to them - Shabat, Pita, etc is far more important then death, human suffering and so. We should all recognize this Evil which they would like to frequent upon us so that we know what evil we are facing when dealing with the religious - let them keep their posters with its wishful thinking - it serves as a warning about religious people and their beliefs - thus a benefit to all sensible people concerned with Justice and human suffering rather then who ate what , when and how. Personally I think the non existent GOD has much better things to do with him time - from what I have seen he does not even have a Facebook account - and you can't be anyone before you have a Facebook account...
26. If the hara-dim leave Israel forever,
jason white ,   afula,israel   (01.08.11)
then that will be the end of most of our problems. As long as we allow ayatollah yusuf to speak about anything, there will be trouble. We need to remove the vote and right to sit in the knesset by these anti Zionist groups. We should stop paying money for them to breed.
27. and why did a whole family of heradim get killed on the
JL   (01.08.11)
tracks a few months ago?...was it that they sinned?...maybe thier mazzuzas were not up to par...or they switched on a light on the shabbat?...
28. Eternal Eliyahu blessing, Jainism charkras, praying to dead
Josh   (01.08.11)
Artists' village of Ein Hod should not do such vile things, I agree. Truly they mock Torah and bring curses. And now that were on the subject, what are these: 1) Setting aside a wine gift on Sukkot to an Eternal living being who resides in Heaven next to G-d for receiving a blessing that G-d said he gives on Pesach. Especially since Torah dictates we must destroy idol worshiper alters not fix it to sacrifice on it to G-d in a place G-d did not choose? 2) Saying to G-d's face I bless you G-d for commanding me to light these candles, when G-d never did? 3) Expecting G-d to visit us and reside in a booth each individual built all over the country right next to their house, when G-d says we shall seek him out in the place He chooses? 4) The use of hand of Hamas, that is the identical replica of the Jainism chakra which is brother to the Jainist swastika which also in archaeological digs was shown to be used by Jews as a good luck charm. 5) The Rabbinic institution and enforcement of new things, when Torah states we shall not add nor subtract to Torah. (Rabbis can explain Torah better than Moses?) 6) The idea that a man with no prophetic claim nor prophetic proof stating G-d did something without using the word "maybe". I am missing about a thousand other question that should go here too. This reversal of our Torah shall not stand.
29. Jl , 27
Charles ,   Petach Tikva   (01.08.11)
It's not because some rabbanim talk in a disgusting way , that you have to fall as low as they did . Sorry , but this is what i think .
30. Dear Charles!
Vladimir ,   Jerusalem   (01.08.11)
Such old-fashioned atheists as you ceased to exist even in the former Soviet Union. Your write in your post # 12: "there is NO such thing as what you call a god". I would correct: "There is No such a thing as you call a charles".
Next talkbacks
Back to article