Opinion
The case for Israel
Yoram Ettinger
Published: 10.01.11, 11:00
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31. Flawed Logic
Nour ,   One-State   (01.10.11)
This mentally-challenged article would have us believe that only contemporary Jews are descendents of ancient peoples. This could not be further from the truth in three ways: 1) Modern Levant Arabs (people who speak Arabic and/or identify themselves as Arabs), including Christians, Copts, Muslims, and even Jews, are themselves descendents of the peoples of antiquity including but not limited to: Assyriacs, Babylonians, ancient Egyptians, Israelites, Maobites, Hittites, etc. Why does the author think that the people who call themselves "Israelis" today have a monopoly direct ancestry to these peoples? 2) The concept of nation is a modern one. In ancient times, even strong armies or monarchies could not rely on linguistic or religious identity alone to define "nationalism" - which didn't even exist. For example, David himself before ascending to the throne, crossed to fight the Jews from the Philistine side. Money talks, I guess old habits die hard huh? This is not to mention that David was an opportunist murderer. He practically wiped off his entire family to cement his control over an aggressive army with a lust for regional genocide. Old habits still... 3) When was Mark Twain or any other European of a colonial mindset a reliable source regarding history? Was he comparing Palestine of 1867 to London of the same time? Where was London only a couple of centuries prior to that date? Struck with plagues and regularly raging with fires. 4) As if the above is not enough, Ettinger then moves on to Mohmmad and claims that he "never set foot" in Jerusalem. Actually, Mohammad is the only central figure in the three monotheistic religions whose existence can be proven. According to Muslim tradition, Mohammad ascended to heaven via Jerusalem and that is repeatedly mentioned in the Quran. Not enough? The Aqsa Mosque, which continues to be the dominating landark for the Jerusalem area, was built in the 7th century and is deeply admired Muslim structure to this day. As your sentence: "The territorial cradle of history constitutes the foundation of national moral high-ground. " What in God's green earth do you mean? Hint: Keep it simple, stupid. Finally, by "moral highground" do you mean the hijacking of ships in international waters? Naqba and 700,000 expelled Arabs to make way for your Jew-only fantasy? The muder of Count Bernadotte who advocated and recommended a one state solution based on justice and coexistence? Murder of unarmed activists? Siege on 1.5 million people? The kidnapping of people for their internal organs? Your Moral High Ground is impressive indeed. Who needs closets when you can have a whole mountain to dump all the skeletons...
32. # 4
Jules   (01.10.11)
Salma, what is your native language ? "Canaanic" ? Or Arabic ? If Arabic, you are a native of the Arab Peninsula.
33. better do a better job of telling the world
ralph   (01.10.11)
34. Jews are Caanites
Sidney ,   USA   (01.10.11)
Archeology has established two things, the story of Abraham is a myth and the early Hebrews were Caanites. We are the indigenous people of the area. DNA testing has proved that Ashenazi Jews come from the land of Israel. We are the only indigenous people who are not supported by leftists.
35. Excellent Treatise
Brod ,   USA   (01.10.11)
This is an excellent treatise in defense of Israel. Israel should use the Bible, History and Biblical Archaeology in its defense in the Halls of Congress, Parliaments, UN, higher educational institutions, and international conferences. Israel's History makes the world of AntiSemites and Islamist-Jihadists fear the most. When the Light of the Bible and History shines in the darkness of the usurpers, Islamist-Jihadism , and AntiSemitism, they could not stand the light and they would run to hide under the cover of darkness. Let the light shines into the cracks of their darkness so that they will stop usurping the Land of Israel from the Jewish Nation.
36. Yes, Jewish religion is oldest but some PA have Jewish blood
Bloodyscot ,   Dallas, Texas   (01.10.11)
, Canannite and from of groups of non-Jewish people living in area for thousands of years. Based on DNA tests some Palestinians have more old Jewish blood than many Israeli Jews. Do they lose their rights to the land simply because their are currently not following Jewish religion? There were 7 non-Jewish groups living in Israel during King David's time, some were force out only to return latter, much like the Jewish people. Nothing is black and white in the Holy Land just different shades of gray.
37. #20 I don't know I have not run a DNA
Sam ,   ME   (01.10.11)
test on all palestinains living there neither have I checked their history. Palestinains are partly converted jews, romans, christians, cannanites and immigrants from arabic countries. Unless you are willing to run DNA testing on each one of them there is no way to know. how did you know that MOST of them came after 1920??????
38. A good case.
noa ,   israel   (01.10.11)
In it's very positive light it also shows the other side in a very negative light: they have Mecca and Medina and all the land from the middle of Africa to Iraq, even Iran, parts of India, Indonesia and Malaysia, and they cannot stand to see a people hold onto their one holy site, Jerusalem? They should really be the bigger one, the one who is generous. They have so much less to lose. But that is also the source of their weakness, they can't let go.
39. What does the international law tell?
Raphael ,   Netanya   (01.10.11)
1948, 1967, 1973, attacking arab armies were beaten back. A vanquished aggressor has no right of return. Look at the european borders: thousands sqmiles were seized by Russia and its satellites and 12 million Germans ousted with no right of reclaim. It would be an incentive bonus for any warmonger to grant the aggressor the possibility to roll back history.
40. to mr. marwan
marco ,   pardes hana   (01.10.11)
listen buddie i guarantee you that if the archeologists were allowed to dig on the mount there would be plenty of evidence to make you eat your words. Bon Apatiet!!
41. everyone has the right to tell his side of the story
Ali ,   Nablus Palestine   (01.10.11)
even if its a complete joke, the holy book of Quran has mentioned AlQuds and the holy Aqsa mosque and mentioned the he (the all might) has blessed its surroundings, Muslim has preserved the holy city and defended it with rivers of blood, while on the other hand it was wiped out from the face of earth twice while it was under the gloomy rule of the Jews and until the moment no single trace was found and they couldn't defend or protect it, Al Quds was given to you by the English on a golden plate and you did nothing to acquire it, but few massacres to the Palestinian civilians.
42. #11 Jason, Have you ever heard of Indisputable Postulates ?!
Salma ,   Palestine   (01.10.11)
my best rebuttal is simply to point that "Land from the Mediterranean to the Jordan River is a Canaanite land called Palestine" is an Indisputable Postulate made to be facts and truths, To all deniers in this forum, Eat you heart out.
43. #9 wake up ya habibi !
Salma ,   Palestine   (01.10.11)
you "Israelis " who try to re-write history , just yesterday you have demolished a historic building for the sake of housing units ! how the hell you dare to make such statments ?!
44. No.14
alexa ,   israel   (01.10.11)
Jews lived in Jeruslem for centuries and were the majority of the population in old Jerusalem . The jews were avacuated from old Jeruslam after jordan captured east Jeruslam . They were living there so is this irrelevant as well?
45. Religion Does NOT Prove Ownership, Statehood
David ,   Syracuse, NY, USA   (01.10.11)
What if many of the Jews of the 13th Century converted to Christianity or Islam? This would transfer ownership to the converted Christians and Muslims. What if those ancient Jews moved to other areas and new owners assumed the land? According to your flawed logic, every Palestinian homeowner can be evicted from his/her house by any Jew. This is racist ethnic-cleansing. Unfortunately, people like you who use racist theology to justify nationalism, invite adverse analogies and logic. Muslims (according to their theology) also believe that the land should be Muslim and Jews should be allowed to live there peacefully, but not on their own "Jewish State." If you want to bet "your God" against "my God," neither one of us would convince the other nor win. Religion should not be used to ethnically-cleanse Silwan and Sheik Jarrah! If Jews are entitled to ONE state of their own (a state determined by religion), then may be ALL Christians of the world should live in ONE state. Or, all Muslims should live in ONE state. Any state that is solely determined by religion is contradictory and self-defeating. It is also racist by nature.
46. A great Article Just to add according to many great sages
Nachman   (01.10.11)
According to many great sages Moshiach coming is imminent. One of Moshiach's first actions will be ingathering off all Jews to the Land of Israel the Building of the third Temple in Jerusalem. So all the false claims and the rebukes from the hypocritical so called just lovers will be exposed and will be punished. G-D will rule there and his laws that are stated in his book will rule. There you can see that Israel (Jerusalem W.B and more)belongs to the Jews.
47. such devotion that Argentina and Uganda were also considered
Jeff, Ex-Marine ,   San Diego, US   (01.10.11)
A very entertaining article, but it gets us nowhere nearer to ending this conflict "A nation which negotiates away its cradle of history is giving away its future" Yet isn't that what you are demanding of the Palestinians dunam by dunam, house by house? Years of demonizing them has convinced you and others the Palestinians are a mirage, and that it's simply ok to take what's rightfully theirs. You also choose to forget how the founding terrorists of Israel viewed the people you so casually dismiss. At least they had the decency to admit their existence. They also acknowledged the fact that the Palestinians had a rightful claim to the land long before you invented an attachment to it. Asking them to relinquish 73 percent of that land is more than enough, don't you think?
48. To #3
Eldad ,   US   (01.10.11)
I guess your subscription to Biblical Archaeological Review has lapsed for the past 40 years.
49. Salma you work hard for your money.
(01.10.11)
50. #45 you are right.
noa ,   israel   (01.10.11)
But Israel won all the wars it didn't start, and could have actually conquered Damascus and Cairo, if America hadn't butted in and stopped them. It isn't Israel asking for excuses and protection really, it is the Arabs, constantly, who, by all rights should be the strongest, but aren't. Doesn't that give even the biggest "non-believer" pause for thought?
51. To Yoram
Ken ,   Australia   (01.10.11)
This is the article that all jews in the world should read. Under no circumstances are the jewish nation and people to give any part of the jewish nation to any person or other people for the sake of an agreement , what ever is in it. The land of Eretz Yisroael Is the definite home and land of all jews of this earth. The muslim push or plot or what ever you want to call it ,is an abomination against the jewish nation, its a declaration of war against jewry world wide, the arabs de-legitamize structure is an evil force and and evil arab curse on the entire world, there should be no sucumbing to arabs any where on the face of this earth by jews in terms of our land. Jewish land is jewish land , all other claims are null-unvoid. We dont need to let anything go to the arabs, if the arabs want a state , they have had many opportunities to create one, and I think this time is over. A deal can be reached, but no jew in this world will ever give them jerusalem, and its not a toy on sale at adepartment store, there is no price you can sell it for , its a non-saleable peice of land owned by the jews and therefore cant be sold or divided, history will show this and the future will show this.
52. we are the nation of god-
a ash ,   nyc ny   (01.10.11)
thank gd we are his nation and the chosen people ---its the rest of the world making their case that they are as moral in the world
53. No matter how many ways you slice the cake...
Noodles ,   Coney Island   (01.10.11)
the Arabs lost the land between the "river and the sea" and they're not getting it back any time soon.
54. P.S., What if Hanin Zoabi's Ancestors Were Jewish?
David ,   Syracuse, NY, USA   (01.10.11)
...Hanin Zoabi's ancestry in Nazerath (al-Nasrah) goes back to the times of Jesus (who also was Jewish before converting to Christianity) and her ancestors might have been Jewish. Why should she be less entitled to her land just because she is now Christian? Why should a Moldovan immigratnt, Avigdor Lieberman, behave as if is more entitled to the land than Hanin Zoabi (who was born and lived all her life in her homeland) just because he is Jewish! I am not a Marxist, but I like Marx's proclamation that "religion is the opium of the masses." Religion has made many Israelis addicted to racist nationalism.
55. Kol Hakavod
bjl ,   usa   (01.10.11)
Toda Ynet, Mr Ettinger is 100% correct. This is why Israel must never give away another cm of land. The arabs only want it to distroy Israel not because they love it.
56. #41 - Funny!
(01.10.11)
First of all Al Quds was taken from the name Kadosh ('holy' in Hebrew). Second of all, there is not one mention of it in the Quran. Muslims have never defended the city. Matter of fact, it was neglected under Arab rule. So, shut up with your fairy tales. Yerushalayim was established by our King David and has been the capital of Eretz Yisrel for 3,000 years and there is countless evidence to prove that!
57. #49 thank you ;P
Salma ,   Palestine   (01.10.11)
YOU HAVE NOTHING ELSE TO PUKE !
58. David #45
Brod ,   USA   (01.10.11)
The Land of Israel is GOD-GIVEN and GOD-RESTORED to the Jewish Nation. Without the Land of Israel and the GOD of Israel, there will be no Jewish Nation. There will only be another stateless humanity like the Gypsy. Unlike other nations of the world, GOD gave and restored the Land of Israel for His Chosen People-the Jewish Nation-Israel who believe in the GOD of Israel and who gave the WORD of GOD-the Bible to humanity. The Devil hates it. Ergo, he has been using his followers-the dark forces to crusade against the Land of Israel since ancient time. However, while ancient invaders and occupiers had come and gone into the dustbin of history, the Jewish Nation-Israel has survived to this day because of GOD'S Providence on Israel. And Israel's Land Title to the Land of Israel is right in the Bible!
59. :: A new low for Ettinger
Matty Groves ,   Fairport   (01.10.11)
Yoram Ettinger is really hitting a new low by rehashing Zionist propaganda and passing it off as an Op-ed article regarding the "right/deed of the Jewish People to its historical homeland". What is even more embarrassing is that Ettinger references Mark Twain and his "Innocents Abroad"! Here what Twain said about Greece in this 'travel guide' book: "We saw no plowed fields, very few villages, no trees or grass or vegetation of any kind, scarcely, and hardly ever an isolated house. Greece is a bleak, unsmiling desert, without agriculture, manufactures, or commerce, apparently." (The Innocents Abroad, Chapter 33 - p. 203) From Twain’s description above one would think that Greece was a barren wasteland devoid of people yet despite Twain’s description Greece was host to 4.5m people in 1800 and 6m people by 1900. What is more interesting is what Ettinger omits from his 'article', for example where is his listing of 'ancient Jewish archaeological treasures' which would attest to this "right/deed of the Jewish People to its historical homeland"? The truth is that such an 'ancient Jewish' archaeological footprint is minuscule. In fact the vast majority of 'archaeological treasures' in Israel are Roman/Byzantine/etc and even those archaeological landmarks which can be affirmed as being built by ancient Jews are wholly insignificant compared to other archaeological treasures/landmarks built by other civilizations from the same period. As for Ettinger touting the much repeated idiom "Jerusalem - the capital of the Jewish people since 1,000BC" well this is just plain nonsense - it is like saying that Constantinople is the eternal capital city of the Greeks!. For a 'city' to be the 'capital city of a given people' since year whatever it has to be actually under the administration/sovereignty of such a aforementioned 'people' over that period of time. Regardless of the lies, misinformation, propaganda and half truths which pepper this article it should be noted that no amount of any ancient Jewish 'territorial attachment' to the Palestinian WB or Southern Lebanon or Western Jordan will result in recognized 'Israeli national sovereignty'. The modern statehood of Israel was born solely out of one factor ie: the international recognition of a Jewish declaration of independence. Without international recognition any claim to ancient 'historical territory' is worthless.
60. SECULAR SOLUTION ONLY
Michael ,   California, USA   (01.10.11)
This is an endless dispute and nobody prevails. Fanatics take over, always. From the article's arguments Mr. Ettinger is a Jewish fanatic who cannot convince anybody impartial. There are greater Jewish fanatics than Mr. Ettinger and you would not want to start debating them because they make no sense at all. Impartiality must come into play for this conflict to settle, if perpetual blood shedding is to be avoided. Therefore, religious arguments need to be set aside, need to be delegated where they belong -- in the prayer houses. Religion must be separated from State, from Politics, from academic research of modern history. Israel will have no progress toward peace, and neither with their opponents, as long as a secular solution is not considered.
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