Opinion
Let’s pray like in America
Aliza Lavi
Published: 11.01.11, 11:24
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73 Talkbacks for this article
1. In America
Chris ,   USA   (01.11.11)
The New Jew, Jesus Of Nazareth, Convert Of Christianity
2. Pray as Your God Commands You to Pray!!!!
Salma ,   Palestine   (01.11.11)
Oh My Goddess! "God's chosen people" don't know how to pray. Aliza Lavi , are you "God's chosen people" OR America's chosen people ?!!
3. Only demographics will bring change
HigherReligiousBirth ,   china and israel   (01.11.11)
Great article surprised it got published ! Unfortunately so much damage has and is being done by the mass media here it has created a lost generation and only a massive religious voting public will ever be able to change things here as a secular person I see the damage from close up , I have never understood why the religious public never demonstrated outside media outlets for more representation in the tax supported media and for a balanced media re faith and religious people very strange this the media the main source of influence in todays society well understood and used and abused by the extreme secular world why is this not understood and acted upon by the religious community ????
4. Religion and the golden calf
Jack   (01.11.11)
5. The difference between USA and Israel
anna borten ,   USA/Israel   (01.11.11)
In USA the religious freedom, the opportunity to practice religion any way people choose, the respect for the different types of Judaism, for example, and most important "a real separation between the state and the religion" provides a very different framework than the one that exists in Israel. In Israel there is no tolerance , yet , for religious freedom, the religion is using political means to achieve political and social goals. I did not see yet reform rabbi, conservative rabbi and orthodox rabbi working together and praying together in a public spaces. It would be great if he could imitate the Americans - their great love for their country, their respect for any religion and freedom to worship any way one wants.
6. Prayer
David ,   Haifa, Israel   (01.11.11)
Why imitate a cynical use of public prayer and religiousity as in American politics? Slavishly doing as the Nations is hardly healthy for us. Let each pray as they will, according to their own lights. American habits of combining politics and religion are not worth emulating. I doubt that the sinere people of faith in America are even in politics!
7. Imitating?!
David ,   Haifa, Israel   (01.11.11)
Dr Lavi where are these Israelis that enthusiastically imitate Americans? They don't live in my neighbourhood (Sha'ar ha-Aliya, Haifa.) I think you are drawing on a myth of your part of society. America is hardly worth imitating, and is, anyway, just a European country on the west side of the Atlantic pond.
8. haredi are the foundations of a jewish state idea
Zionist forever   (01.11.11)
As much as everybody loves to hate the haredi they are the foundations of this country if it wants to remain a jewish state. Each passing generation seems to get more and more secular and religion means less and less to them its the haredi who are the symbol of judaism. If Israel stopped being a jewish state so many jews live in a small country surrounded by muslim states and so many jews have no interest in religion the country would pretty soon become the centre of the world with lack of practising jews. Tere are so many doing mickey mouse conversions to enter under the law of return because we don't have enough guidelines of who is a jew, what are the rules on conversion etc. Saying somebody must convert to come live here is a joke its like saying you must take an exam. Conversion is not something you can force somebody to do its something they must want to do. Now the secular parties as conditions of joining coalitions is conversion is made easier getting married becomes a civil matter rather than a religious one ( which it is for jews in countries like the UK ) Also as Israel doesn't have the kind of small communities the way you do in other countries ( except the haredi ) so there would be nothing to gel jews together. So love or hate them the haredi are whats keeping Israel jewish at its roots
9. The Israeli police do not allow
Zev ,   Israel   (01.11.11)
Jews to pray on the Jewish Temple Mount, the holiest place for the Jewish people.
10. Agreed. Prayer is needed. Not the only thing, but neither is
Yoseph ,   Israel   (01.11.11)
"my might".............................................
11. The difference
Moshe ,   Jerusalem   (01.11.11)
The difference between the US and Israel, is that in the US its easier to be "religious" and pray because its all fake and doesn't mean anything. Its just putting on a show. It doesn't obligate you to anything. Here is Israel, however, praying means something and it obligates you not only to pray and then throw the yoke of G-d and his Torah off and do whatever you want, but rather live with the understanding that there is a G-d and he is involved in our every second of the day. As one big Rosh Yeshiva once said, "Nowadays, its better for people not to pray because it just makes them into liars because they don't actually believe in anything they are saying."
12. US public life is a religious prison. They pray under DURESS
World Traveller ,   Tel Aviv, Israel   (01.11.11)
If a potential US politician says (s)he doesn't believe in god, states the clear human rights abuses of the bible, (s)he won't get elected. The US population is generally very dumb, where abotion, guns, gays and god are considered actual election issues. Israel is already make backward enough as it is because of religion in its own way; why make it even more backward by adding the religious backwardness of others?
13. # 11 who is right or who is wrong
si   (01.11.11)
what is in your head what is right for you, and what makes it right just for you. but it may very well be just in your head, and so many people don't actually believe in anything of what you saying.
14. This is so confused!
Yossef   (01.11.11)
"We Jews have only one god and we even don't believe in him" This well known joke says it all. We made from all wooden idols an abstract god, easy to move on with. We made this god, generations after generations as a metaphor of the creation, a metaphor of the father (tzim-tzum), a metaphor for order and law. We don't need to move backward to a pagan interpretation of god, like christians. So forget the way american pray and let us continue to be Jews, and develop Judaism as a high-way to Justice and Freedom, our only goals. Stop bigotry please!
15. Well - Hmmm -
Orao. ,   Srbia.   (01.11.11)
- In Respublica Srbska during the Civil War, the morning session in the parlament, always began with prayer. However - And here’s the last question: Which head of state had to make clear last year that he is devoted to his religion and prays regularly? The answer: Barack Obama. He did it in the face of charges that he isn’t Christian and in light of the fact that he is barely seen at church. Hence, Obama issued a statement where he made clear that he prays every Sunday. -which God do Obama pray to ? since he in his policy aginst Israel, disregard all Words of Yehowah regarding Israel. Even prayers can be Sins !. Orao.
16. A prayer is...
Pray for nothing ,   Imaginationland   (01.11.11)
... the best way of doing something, without actually doing anything!
17. To: No. 2
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (01.11.11)
Salma, the Jewish people were praying coherently and with purpose while your people were worshiping cats, dogs, rocks and trees, drinking blood and sacrificing babies. For you to tell us to "pray as your G-d commands you to pray" is nothing short of obscene. YOUR so-called "G-d" allowed his so-called "prophet" to marry a nine-year old girl. I suppose that is business-as-usual in the Arab world, but where I come from, it's called paedophilia and is a crime. And not to put too fine a point on it, but I think you meant to say "Oh My Goodness," not "Oh My Goddess." In sum, Salma, why are you so intent on stepping in it every time you post a talkback? You are not witty, you are not clever, you never contribute anything of substance and most of the time your comments are quite tasteless. Isn't there some ersatz "Palestinian" website where your contributions might be appreciated? Could you spew your nonsense there?
18. Response to # 2 Salma
Robert Blum ,   New York USA   (01.11.11)
The Jews were chosen to receive G-d's laws; the Torah. Ishmael was a "Wild ass" and would not abandon the sword (just as now), so he and his nation which became Islam could not receive the Torah, could not be chosen by G-d as His eternal people, in the way the Jews were chosen. The Christians AND the Muslims, BOTH used the fundamentals of the Torah to form the dogmatic, moral structure of their respective "holy" books, albeit both nations depricated the Torah and despised the Jews for not accepting their religions. In the case of Islam, I use the word "Religion' in the context of Islam actually being a pseud-religion, which is actually a political agenda, not a religion! Visit www.thereligionofpeace. com and also go to www.youtube.com and search Islamic demographics. Watch that video. Also search Geert Wilders. Hear his speeches and see 'fita', his short poignant and truthful video!
19. Monotheistic God Is The Worst Thing That Happened To Mankind
(01.11.11)
I hear a lot about how advanced the concept of Monotheism is. The trouble is the world was a much nicer place when there was room for everyone's gods. The world was a better place when every living thing was part and equal in the Godhead. Sarah B's post is typical of the average monotheist, belittling everyone else's faith and feeling so righteously superior in whatever concept of G_d she has. It's all bullshit. If G-d(s) exists he is everyone's god(s) and loves everyone equally. There are no chosen and no lesser in these G_d(s)' eyes.
20. Not before I see Obamas' ass in the air, while he
tom ,   tel aviv   (01.11.11)
bangs his forhead on a goat-skin rug, facing towards Mekka. Why the Hell would any sane nation like to see their leaders prostate themselves before an unseen&unheard from Entity of doubious heritage...?!The thought of it is S-C-A-R-Y at least....
21. to#19: No, the worst thing that happened to mankind
tom ,   tel aviv   (01.11.11)
was the notion that we are all created equal! It screws with our sane perception of the world arround us: nothing and nobody is equall. Some people are missing limbs and some brains. Nazi murderers got free pass in USA, while(petty) tax offenders have their lives ruined by IRS & so on.... Don't be equal, be humane. God is turning your brain into mush (or is it the other way around?)
22. To: No. 19
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (01.11.11)
What would a polytheistic faith achieve? Didn't do all that much for the Greeks and Romans, except contribute the notion of the occasional descending deity raping a mortal. If one really adheres to monotheism -- and I do -- one must accept the concept of one deity, one who is all powerful. One who does not need a son. Frankly, your idea is a little silly. The world was NOT a better place -- it was just as violent as it is today. By the way -- G-d may love everyone equally, but He chose us. And of course there are lesser. Remember the Amalekites? Should have followed G-d's command with respect to them; wouldn't have had to deal with Haman subsequently. Finally, the Jewish G-d is not a vapid, meek, mild, turn-the-other-cheek G-d. Our G-d has the full gamut of emotions, and has been known to be somewhat mercurial. Just ask Job.
23. #18 Robert , Can I ask you a question ?!
Salma ,   Palestine   (01.11.11)
Why is there a billion Muslims, a billion Christians and ONLY 12 million Jews ?! Is your God is so stingy to choose only 12 million people from six billion Human Beings?! I Ask seriously so please answer seriously, okay Robert . DON'T LET ME WAIT TOO LONG ; )
24. Re #23: Better question: Why are u threated by small Israel?
Ami   (01.11.11)
Rare minerals are found in small measures but are extremely valuable just as the Jews. The Arabs nations obsess over Israel because they internalize this truth. The Arab nations do not give a sh*t about the so-called Palestinians, and if their objective to eliminate Israel is ever completed, they will dumb you like a cheap used harlot in a refugee camp. This might be new to you too: that the vast world is not Jewish does not challenge Judaism, because we believe you do not have to be a Jew to be righteous. That you don't care about your womenly virtue, that you remain in an abusive society, is a reflection of how low you value yourself.
25. To Sarah B
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (01.11.11)
Do you have any idea how comforting is is to see your name and tb?? After returning from Israel on 12-18, something didn't feel quite right, which I blamed on having had to sit on the 'plane for 13 hours straight. To cut a long story short, but for my daughter and son -i - law, who literally threw me into their car and raced me to the emergency, I wouldn't be here. (Aneurism the size of an orange, which had started to leak.) I used to joke that I coulnd't kick the bucket until after I had seen Masada. Am I ever thankful something or somebody didn't pay too much attention to that one, because I did see Masada. I'm at some very nice place being put through therapy, where I'll be until Atlanta comes out from under all this ice. I am just so happy to still be here, I even love the people who disagree with me.
26. #23 Salma, Hah! Hah!... You don't know what you got into
Jake   (01.11.11)
There are at least 100 trillion mosquitoes. And I could go on with other examples of animal life but my intention is not to offend but to prove a point. Numbers don't necessarily signify true value of a species.
27. #17 on Aisha
observer   (01.11.11)
The marriage to Aisha was a political bond between the new state head and her father, one of the closest and oldest companions Abu Baker: the man who had stood by Muhammad through the earliest and toughest times. She was actually betrothed to another before, and that other denied her when she converted to Islam from paganism, hence the turn of events to save her reputation. She was 10 (betrothed) and 15 (married) not as some stated, 6 and 9. In that age (7th century), most men and women matured and got married young. It was very common to be married by the age of fifteen. The age of 18 is a modern invention. In another 14 centuries the age of consent may be 25 or 30. Islam was the first in history to give women legal rights, the right of inheritance and contracts. It also gave them the right to choose a husband, and to divorce on request while keeping all their prior and accumulated wealth and dowry. They never had any of these rights before. Aisha herself was a political and cultural entity to be reckoned with. Most of what survives today came down through her. She even raised and commanded an army, years later. Do you know that a lot of Jewish women who lived in Islamic countries insisted that their marriage contract be according to Islamic terms? why? because they felt secure so.
28. See What I Mean?
World Citizen ,   the world   (01.11.11)
Sarah B is a prime example of how monotheistic religion can poison a person's mind. To someone who has read her posts for several years now she appears to be a very bitter and hate filled person. That's what the priests, rabbis and mullahs of monotheistic religions do to people. Turn them into Sarah Bs.
29. Response To Salma # 23
Robert Blum ,   New York USA   (01.11.11)
This is a matter of Quality over quantity.G-d has blessed His eternally chosen people to excell over all other people! Compare Islam against the Jewish nation. There are NO note-worthy scientific or medical accomplishments in all of Islam. Per capita world-wide, Jews have the greatest number of doctors, scientists, and medical & scientific achievents and discoveries. Jewish contributions to mankind are far greater in these areas as well as in literature, music and in the number of Nobel Prize winners. From Islam's 1 billion people, there is only the greatest number of terrorists and terror attacks; last year almost 2,000! This all Islam can accomplish! Terror is its donation toward the worsening NOT betterment of mankind! Israel offers Arabs the right to vote, to hold political office and EVEN has Arab diplomats! women in Israel, unlike in Islam where they are beaten by their unadoring husbands for minor infractions and may be stoned to death, have the same equal rights as men do! Islam's pseudo-religious political agenda that you call Islam is NOT a true religion, even though it had its original moral foundation in Torah. Israel will continue above all of Islam and the Christian world to be a beacon of light and righteousness, despite the perverse, leftist and Muslim propaganda that has proloferated even before the Trans-Jordanians / Jordanians re-created themselves as so called 'Palestinians' in order to curry world sympathy and foment hate for Jews who they portray as the oppressors, when in fact Muslims stole the land from the Jews when Jordan occupied Samaria, Judea and Jerusalem. Israel recaptured Jewish land, allowing Muslims to pay rent to them. Arafat insisted they don't pay, and they did not. so, the Jews forced the Muslims out of JEWISH land. The rest is revised history, compliment6s of Islam.
30. Any room here for an amused cynic?
Cameron ,   USA   (01.11.11)
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