Jewish Scene
Pray in mosque, rabbi rules
Ynet
Published: 13.02.11, 07:57
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31. Christians #15, 18 & 26
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (02.13.11)
As a number of knowledgeable Jews have posted, Christianity is idolatrous, praying to a man-god. UNLIKE Christianity, however, Islam is NOT idolatrous and does NOT pray to a pagan god. Allah is Arabic for Elohim. In their music, Yemenite Jews often sing praises to ha-Sheim--Elohim--in Arabic: to Allah. For Christians to ignorantly charge that they are singing praises to a pagan god echoes the misojudaic vilifications of the original Church in the 2nd-5th centuries CE. The most pristine Jews (Yemenite) chant prayers--and Torah--according to melodies handed down since they were chanted by Mosheh and Yisraeil at Har Sinai. For Christians who are ignorant of this to maliciously charge that this is "a monotone ritualized incantation" also echoes the misojudaic vilifications of the original Church in the 2nd-5th centuries CE. When will Christians ever educate themselves to 1st-4th century CE history?!? Christianity was founded by Hellenists, not Torah Jews. Perhaps if any of these Christians could even read the Bible... (It's Hebrew!) And several posters are right on: if more Jews would read Rambam it would be a great improvement, and also improve chances for peace between cousins. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer & Orthodox Jew: Teimani, Baladi, Dor Dai Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority Welcoming all who choose to keep Torah (When questions to me go unanswered, they have refused to post it. Find our reply in our Web Café at www.netzarim.co.il)
32. re-Church
Sophia   (02.13.11)
Mike, it's not this particular Rabbi, it's Jewish law, which forbids Jews from entering places of idol worship. Hope this explains it.
33. Prayer?
Mikesailor ,   Miami, FL   (02.13.11)
If God is all-powerful and all- seeing, I could never understand why He would be concerned about where someone prays. I would think the simple act of prayer, whether vocal or silent, whether in a church, synagogue, mosque or living room would not be of major concern. Aren't you really complaining about form over substance?
34. Well, Moslems do accept Kosher products....
Dorothy Friend ,   Tel aviv   (02.13.11)
...if there is no Halal to be had. So I guess if there is no synagogue for prayer, a mosque will have to do.
35. #18 #26 Jews don't need christians to tell us what is pagan
rachel ,   galut   (02.13.11)
and what not. man-god jesus worship is pagan, churches packed with statues and images of jesus, mary and '' saints'' displayed for public worship are pagan. Moshe ben Maymon ( Rambam) has rulled some 800 yrs ago that mosques are places of worship allowed for Jews. And something else, for all these christians guised as '' jews''... it was and still is christians who are trying to forcibly convert Jews... NOT Muslims. Muslims have never tried to forcibly convert Jews, in many cases like what happened on Greek Island of Rhodes, Muslims have mandated Jews who were forcibly converted to christianity to go back to faith of their ancestors. So, really, spare us....
36. Christians's ignorant comments
Sophia   (02.13.11)
Many people here should take a basic course in Judaism before commenting. Neither do Christians have to feel offended because their place of worship is off-limits to Jews. We're not saying the CHRISTIANS can't pray there! They can do what they like, but Jews should not be tainted by idol worship.
37. #7, #13, #19
Mike Carmel ,   Rishon le Zion   (02.13.11)
Thanks for your "clarifications". Actually I was referring to entering a church, not praying in one. Why can't we even enter a church to look at it? If we hold other people's religions in such disdain then we can't really complain all the time about antisemitism, can we? Think about it.........
38. 33 Prayer - good question, which you inadvertently answered
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (02.13.11)
In contrast to your Christianity that requires only a belief as the touchstone, Torah (viz., Judaism) instructs our practice as the touchstone. In this context, please read Mishlei Shlomoh (Hellenized to "Proverbs") 28.9. (The verse number in your Hellenized version is ±1.) Obeying Torah includes the מצוה (mitzwah; command) to maintain הבדלה (Havdalah; distinction and separation) between קדש (qodesh; holy) and חל (khol; ordinary, popularly profane). I urge you to learn some Hebrew so that you can learn some Torah in order to understand. Havdalah requires that Orthodox Jews maintain physical as well as spiritual havdalah from avodah zarah ("strange work"; i.e., idolatry). It's also easy to understand a common sense reason. If Orthodox Jews frequented pagan temples then, like you, people would have no reason to think there's any difference--havdalah--between Torah (le-havdil) and idolatry. That Orthodox Jews are prohibited by Halakhah from entering churches demonstrates that there is havdalah between Torah Torah (le-havdil) and Christianity. That Torah, Halakhah and havdalah prompted your question also answers your question. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer & Orthodox Jew: Teimani, Baladi, Dor Dai Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority Welcoming all who choose to keep Torah (When questions to me go unanswered, they have refused to post it. Find our reply in our Web Café at www.netzarim.co.il)
39. 31 nutZERim cultleader teaching about judaism & christianity
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (02.13.11)
oxymoronic?
40. #37 Mike, well...
Yossef   (02.13.11)
it is a preventive measure, in some sense. Don't validate, even by entering a church, the worship of idols. This is the rule of the "fence around the Torah". I know that there are some discussion about entering a church for knowledge purpose, art, history etc... I'm not a rabbi, but you can eventually find some reference about this question on the net.
41. Places of Prayer
Yitzie ,   New York, USA   (02.13.11)
Why the traveller can't concentrate on his prayers ANYWHERE is mind boggling. Chayalim can pray while in a Minyan next to a tank(firing) on the battlefield. Just zone them out. What is the worst that will happen when you open your eyes? You will have a few little boys staring at you? I get that whenever I am walking through a "non-Jewish" neighborhood in the US. Muslims pray toward Meccah, the building doesnt matter, b/c it is a building, thats all. Just as when Jews pray towards J'lem, the locale doesnt matter, as long as you are facing the proper direction. A church has idols inside (and usually out as well). THAT is the problem. Halachically, a Jew may not EVER enter a church for no reason, (save for saving lives and the like).
42. Go home 38, you don't belong
Edin   (02.13.11)
I'll pray in a church before I listen to your deceptive kind. Danger!
43. its not crazy as long as he doesnt treat it as a mosque
zionist forever   (02.13.11)
As long as he doesn't use the mosque for the purpose of it being a house of worship but rather a place where he can get away from it all and pray quietly undisturbed. I don't see any diference to using the mosque or finding a quiet corner in the airport. I just think its a shame these European airports think to put a mosque in their airports and no doubt a church but no syqngogue. I hope next time the EU wants to introduce abit of legislation it shouls obligate all major airports who have either a mosque or church to include a synagogue as well.
44. 39 is a Christian. 'Nuff said.
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (02.13.11)
45. THE RABBI KNOWS HIS STUFF
LAWRENCE ,   SAFED ISRAEL   (02.13.11)
Rabbi Efrati knows what he is doing .Resoect to him.
46. THE APPOSTATE CHURCh -
(02.13.11)
47. to 22 & 289 Lim Kong Chang ) LOL :-)
BENJAMIN ,   SINGAPORE   (02.13.11)
Buddism is organised religion, Chinese refers to race. You get both mixed up you loose your celebrated freedom. Dont think that you can explain Jewsih believe System with two post of yours :-)~ Anyway are there any synagogue in Malaysia now ? (Yes ./ No) so much for feedom of worship in Malaysia. HA haha Ha a :-) I cant stop laughing :-) I am ajew from malaysia now living in singapore. The freedom of religion in Singapore suppased you malaysian dream. In Singapore we have a home , but in MALAYSAI we JEWs were persecuted....well we will build the Singapore Economy because singapore bless us. benjamin singapore
48. 44 is a leader of a cult. 'nuff said.
mike ,   israel (formerly usa   (02.13.11)
49. THE APPOSTATE CHURCH -
Orao. ,   Srbia.   (02.13.11)
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Revelation+17&version=KJ21 -The Great Halot is the so called - Roman Catolic Church. and all other Churches in the World are Her Offspring. GOD will however, According to HIS WORD, Beget and Rise a true Assembly of Faihfull Christians, thus - Sakarjah - 6:8. So he called-me-. He said-to me-say-. See, the one who go-to-country of- the North. They gave a home. God's word God's spirit-of-country of The North.. - AND Esajah - 14:13. You-you said-in your heart .- The heavens, I want to up .- Above the stars of-God .- I want to rise up my Throne .- I want to sit on the mountain-of-Assembly. On the extreme-of the North .- Scandinavia is in the Focus here. This must be wery important to Israel since it is Mentioned in their Book. Orao.Srbia.
50. What if the mosque wasn't empty?
Lila ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (02.13.11)
Salma, if the mosque wasn't empty, you know your co-religionists would tear the Jew limb from limb, eviscerate him, and dance around with his body parts, just like they did in Ramallah. Israeli censors hid that from us, so we wouldn't know what really happened in Ramallah, so that we shouldn't know the true face of Islam.
51. Spiritual leader? What would G-d say?
Josh   (02.13.11)
Proof of what I have been saying all along. These men should really get to understand love of G-d before they open their mouths and tell one who loves G-d to go into incantations in union of those who worship Jesus or those who claim Jesus was a prophet of G-d's. Loyalty comes with love. Is this being loyal to G-d and Torah? Hmmmm?
52. @7 you computer is an idol. Throw it out.
(02.13.11)
53. where was it? the article don't mention it
ghostq   (02.13.11)
I have a strong feeling this headtitle isn't as it seems.
54. to #7 you idiot in Lutheran and asnglikan
ghostq   (02.13.11)
and buptists churches it is also forbiden to have an idiols.
55. to #44 since when being chritian is a curse
ghostq   (02.13.11)
if I said the same on jews, you would probably call me a Nazi. sheesh
56. "Uncomfortable"
Sagi   (02.13.11)
because people stare at him. There is no need to put on a prayer shawl and leather starps in public, it is pure exhibitionism. I feel very comfortable. I do not pray in public or in private. I do not enter churches, synagogues or mosques. It follows that I do not have these terrible problems about feeling uncomfortable and asking a Rabbi what to do. I do not have to stand at the back of a plane and block the entrance to the toilets or the galley. Life is easier that way. I believe in myself and nature and not a load of poppycock.
57. We're all together missing the flight altogether.
Jerry ,   The Netherlands   (02.13.11)
58. One God is Most Important
Ismail Suleiman   (02.13.11)
Today, many Muslims would like to say that Islam has more in common with Christianity than with Judaism because of enmity for zionism and the state of Israil. However, the strict belief in one God (monotheism) ALLAH (SWT) is the most important versus trinity which is prohibited in the Holy Quran and Islam. Even belief in the prophet Jesus Isa (PBUH) is not more important than the unity of God ALLAH (SWT) as one. So whether one likes it or not Islam is closer to Judaism (and vice a versa) than Christianity based on this.
59. #58 Ismail, and I would say that
Yossef   (02.13.11)
many jews think that they are closer to christians (as it appear in this talkback) because of their animosity toward muslims. But as you say, we like it or not (actually I like it) : zionists and islamists have a lot in common ;-) beginning by the nature of their religious commitment. Salam aleikum.
60. Buddha
Lim Kong Chang ,   Malaysia   (02.13.11)
#47, Benjamin, please study Buddha. Buddha make Chinese the most powerful nation now. No people can rich like Chinese.
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