Freedom!

The segregation, isolation, separation, degradation of women in any context whatsoever, religious or otherwise is wrong period. Woman are not better than men and men are not better than women. Both are human beings and both have equal rights and there is no reason or excuse for men to treat women in any shape or form other than they themselves would wish to be treated. Legislation should be very clear and strict on this point with extremely heavy penalties for those who digress. The degredation of one human by another is unacceptable especially when it is motivated by gender which in turn is motivated by religion.

bole! Did you notice what's happening up North? B"H fro the Haredi.

The postscript of this article would be better off as an introduction to this one-sided article, the claims of which are seriously taken out of proportion. Personally as someone who rides religious buses often I actually prefer the back as there are more seats there. It is hard to understand even the authors basic point, as many if not all of the claims are in no contradiction to the Court's ruling as they're within the parameters of voluntary separation. We should not be shocked at the rhetoric of a movement which seeks to de-legitimize all things orthodox. What is most interesting is the author's claims toward the practice "in many cemeteries in Israel" the precedent for which can actually be found in Zecharyah 12:12, "The land will mourn each of the families by itself: the family of the house of David by itself, and their wives by themselves; the family...". Hoping for more open and honest dialogue on these subjects

The opening premise of this article is a lie. There are no curtains on the public bus lines that are "mehadrin". If there are on private, or chartered buses, it is no ones business. This is a favorite, perrenial red herring issue of the Masortim who apparently have boring lives.

It would serve the proposed goals of the author more if he spoke about the crimes committed against women by the secular world including, objectifying women, pornography, using women for marketing ploys, creating a society of unfulfilled women who must behave like men to live up the standard of society etc... But of course the true objective is just to bash religion not to defend women or their honor

It sounds like something would happen to have the men and women separted in mourning.

Okay, that was the most hippy dippy thing I have ever said, but seriously. Israel has enough troubles without fighting over seating arrangements. Haredim can learn to sit on a mixed bus, just as they have to deal with crowded sidewalks, airplanes, or places of business. If they don't like a mixed music concert or a woman saying a eulogy, they are free to leave. Seculars can learn to accommodate some separation. At events where there is sufficient demand, both segregated and mixed seating can be maintained without pushing any group to the back. If someone asks you nicely not to sit next to them due to modesty, oblige them if you can. People just need to act like adults and make reasonable accommodations for each other. Though some days I'm afraid that might be too much to ask.

t is depressing to think how many years of wisdom humanity has lost by excluding women from positions of leadership, in the academic world, medicine, politics, philosophy, religion. Double the number of great books and important discoveries from all of these disciplines and you can see the great difference this would have made for mankind. The exclusion of women may not be a crime, but it is certainly a sin. Yizhar Hess is the Executive Director and CEO of the Masorti Movement in Israel Comment - The Most Poweful Natural Force in Mankind is - The Attraction between Men and Women. Therefore to Protect the People of God, Yehowah has in Practice separated the Sexes, in order for them to be Holy/Separated, and not be Mentalty Occupied to much by the other sex. This has nothing to do with discrimination as such. We can se the Wisdom in this, by a comparison to the Goyim/Heaten Societys, totaly lost in the Worst of Sexual behavior, draging down their Societys to the Pit. Orao.Srbia.

The ultra orthodox must open their eyes to the world and re-evaluate their 16th century ideas on the status of women. The ideas that women are not intelligent & that women cannot be reliable witness are certainly not true. Preventing women from studying Torah & other religious texts is a ploy to keep women subservient. In the modern world women are in every occupation including military combat service. Time for the ultra orthodox women to open their eyes get over there brain washings and hold out for modern status instead of waiting for the men to grant it to them.

A Comparison. In the Bible there is a Fourfold Name of Yehowah, as there in the Indian Religion is a Fourfold State of the Self. In this Fourfold Name of he Self, with its Different Functions of the Personality of the Godhead, there is Bouth Male and Female. So in the Spiritual World a Function is of Bouth Sexes, as is written in the Bible - -Elohim made them Male and Female - So if Men/Males would understand the Godheads intention, they would Take Wifes according to their Personality and Function in the Godhead, and the Wife/Female, would perform the same Function in the Godhead, as Her Husband, as is written about Elohims intention With the Man/Male, in regard to theWoman/ Female - - I will make a Help fit for Him- !. So - the Woman/Female/Wife, will fullfill Herself and Her Mission, as a Support and Help to Her Man/Male/ Husband. It is the Male and Female togheter who are The Human, and fullfilles the Purpose of GOD, and not Anybody of them as Separated from the other. Orao,Srbia.

Separate -seating buses don't offend me. Larger-than-life billboards with near-naked women do.

Larger than life billboards with near naked women don't offend me. Separate seating buses do.

While secular lawless Jews commit almost every sin in the Torah, they cannot tolerate secular-invented “sins” (see post #6 from Yoni) that are not observed by orthodox Jews. What screwy shameful people seculars like Yizhar Hess are.

A Divine and Nonedivine Society as comparison. The Divine Society Functions as a Orchestar with a Dirrigent - The Dirrigent is GOD Himself - and all Instruments/Functions are Anointed Individuals. Since all Individuals in their Anointing - plays their individual instruments according to the Dirrigents command - there is a Harmony and even Freedom- in the Anointed Individual Diversity. Further - In the Nonedivine Society - there is no Dirrigent- or another Instrumental Ego is - and all plays their Instruments/Functions according to their own Ego- A Discord of Diversity. The Fallacy of the Nonedivine Society is the Fallen Human Egoistic minds Oppinion - that the Individual - Male or Female, is an Entity in Itself. They Divide the Unity of Man And Women, Separates Them - and Compere them to Each Other This is the Fallen Separate Ego of the Human, Separated from the Unity with GOD. This Ego can never do the will of GOD, since its Source and Insspiration originates in its own Ego. This is the Human Liberalistic Wiev, Some Ideologies try to solve this crisis - with a Human Ego of a worser kind - the Totalitarian Dictatorship- of Collective Ego or National Egoism - as Totalitarianism in all kinds of Socialism or Islam. Therefor Mankind must be Born anew - and Receive a Anointed Divine Nature - as above. In short. Orao.Srbia.

What balderdash you write, just because a Jew is not ultra-orthodox does not mean he is secular. There are many just orthodox, modern orthodox & conservative Jews who keep kosher homes and honor the Sabbath. In any case a secular Jew can do what he feels is correct for him. The Jews who you vilify in your feed back are the ones protecting the state of Israel by serving in the IDF, paying taxes with a large percentage going for support of the ultra orthodox who do not contribute to the welfare & safety of the rest of the state. Remember the almighty helps those who help themselves and prayer alone cannot protect anyone. You mean lawless in terms of how you see the Torah, but in many cases the ultra orthodox commit acts which are in reality blasfamous. Further the ultra orthodox sects have to review their ways in light of the 21st century and not be bound by 16th century notions.

obviously you are just a perverted individual if you are ok with seeing larger then life billboards of naked woman (or your just enjoy free pron)!! but you definitely are not out there to protect womans rights!!!! the orthodox are not looking to put down or degrade woman, all they want to do is protect morality!!! why cant you just get the point...it's not orthodox vs. non orthodox it's orthodox keeping the world a better place!!!! ever been to bahai gardens in haifa?? every single woman has to "cover up" be dressed modestly yet for some reason no one ever complains?? whats the dif?? why can we respect other religions but when it comes to our own we become self hating jews???

i totally agree with you. every crime against humanity has to be punished everywhere and always.

child -porn(ography) and sex with children is a crime and has to be punished. sex with (other) people against their will too, sex with animals too, sex with any individual (against their will) too.

being hidden behind a Burkha

I have contempt for religion. It is the bane of Humanity.

You have a point there !. Orao.Srbia.

# 12 Chani Larger than life billboards with near naked women don't offend me. Separate seating buses do. Sagi (01.26.11) Comment - Yoy seem to have only Egoistic Conserns for the egoistic good for Yourself. but for the better Good od the Society not. Orao.Srbia.

There are no billboards of naked women in Israel. Dont exagerate. If a billboard of a sexy looking,dressed woman offends you, dont look. Use some self control.

The female form is divine (paraphrased from an aria in Aida) and heterosexual males are hard wired to react to the vision of the female form. Ancient societies dealt with this phenomenon in different ways such as keeping the female form hidden. Islam & the ultra orthodox Jews still feel the need to keep the female form out of sight so males do not have to deal with their hard wired stimulus. As women became emancipated, men have learned to deal with their emotions and women have & are taking their place as equals in the human society. In the billboard debate we have 2 ideas mixing: 1. the ultra orthodox definition of modesty & 2. The use of the “divine form” to push product sales which some consider as degrading to women. Together they are lobbying for the elimination of scantily dressed women on billboards. I would agree with the elimination (reluctantly) of scanty dressed women on bill boards but not the complete elimination of women from all public advertising as the ultra orthodox want. I am completely against one sect attempting to push its definitions and requirements on the majority.

These billboards of naked women,if it is true, make it difficult to mothers who want to educate their daughters to dress decently.

Use some self control. Birdi , Israel (01.27.11) Comment - So why dont you ? There are no billboards of naked women in Israel. Dont exagerate. If a billboard of a sexy looking,dressed woman offends you, dont look. Comment - Cant you then hold this for Yourself Privetly, not everybody has the same interessts as you, and Society at large, should stick to what is best for the Society at large. and not to some Personal interessts of Yours. Orao.

Hey bright spark. How do you know if there are or are not billboards of naked women in Israel? You dont live here. Why should "I hold this for myself privately" ??? this is a public forum & I have the right to voice my opnion. I sure am using self control here by not telling you exactly what I think of you !!

Ora are you telling us that you have not seen any billboards of naked women in Jerusalem? (Nope you have'nt because there are'nt any !!)

Kudos Norman.