Opinion  Sever Plocker
Who’s afraid of democracy?
Sever Plocker
Published: 31.01.11, 00:48
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31. first lesson in journalism: learn language
daniel ,   israel   (01.31.11)
This is a low point for Ynet. If its journalists do not understand what "democracy" mean, as this article proves, how can this article be read? Israelis are not afraid of "democracy", but granting voting rights to people who might be extremists. Learn language, thanks.
32. Good grief! There still is no Arab democracy.
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (01.31.11)
The "flames of democracy" are not engulfing the streets of Cairo. Crikey! What an obtuse, bizarre conclusion to draw from riots in the streets and the dictator and his cronies trying to re-trench. There is no democracy in Egypt, nor in any other Arab country. There is absolutely no sign that democracy is about to break out there either. The odds on Egypt becoming a democracy are slimmer than me winning this week's lottery in Israel...and that's only 14 million to 1 against.
33. Reckless Words Unnecessarily Foment Enemies (2nd try)
Paqid Yirmeyahu ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (01.31.11)
Israel, and Israelis, have NO right to oppose Arab self-governance. While we should always be strong and prepared, only if and when they threaten Israel does our right to aggressively defend ourselves kick in. Presently, Arab tyrants blameshift all of their ills on Israel while keeping their people impoverished in dark ages conditions so that they are constantly fighting angry with nothing to lose by picking up weapons and going to war against Israel. Like any other people, Arabs would be far more reticent about gambling prosperous and fulfilled lives, and their children's bright futures, to pick up weapons to annihilate Israel and, even if they won, live back in dark ages conditions again. Moreover, the better educated Arabs are, the less likely they are to be deluded by tyrannical leaders that it's all Israel's fault. Back a better life and self-actualization for Egyptians, even Egyptian government and stability, but not any individual autocrat who alienates his people. This holds true for all Arab peoples, even those that, in the short term, produce enemies we must fight, perhaps destroy. Even in Hamastan and Hizbalanon, Arabs' right to choose their own governance is likely to eventually produce more prosperity and better education for their Arab population. They need a popular intifada like Egypt's. Happier, more prosperous Arabs are better for them and better for Israel. When we wish them prosperity, happiness and security we are more likely to be viewed as their cousin. At least we have a chance of peace. As long as you--not me--wish them failure and miserable lives oppressed by tyrants as long as they don't attack Israel or oppose the US, you continue making them enemies. For all you foreigners, including Diaspora "Jews" not willing to put your own lives on the line, who foment enemies among Arabs with your big mouths, you risk my life, my wife and daughter's lives and the lives of my fellow Jews here. May you quickly reap your just rewards for your reckless disregard for our lives. Paqid Yirmeyahu Paqid 16, The Netzarim, Ra'anana, Israel Israeli Torah-reverer & Orthodox Jew: Teimani, Baladi, Dor Dai Advocate for Logic as Hermeneutic Halakhic Authority Welcoming all who choose to keep Torah (When questions to me go unanswered, they have refused to post it. Find our reply in our Web Café at www.netzarim.co.il)
34. #4, #29
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (01.31.11)
#4 All Arab "peace initiatives" involve the destruction of Israel. Show me even one that does not. The Saudi peace initiative, for example, calls for establishment of Jew-free areas in Israel, and unlimited Arab immigration into the Jewish-areas. #29 When Mubarak dies, the Brotherhood will take over for three reasons. First, they are the only ones who are well-organized. Second, they are the only ones who are well-funded. Third, the CIA or Saudis will always fund corrupt thieves like Mubarak, Abbas or Fayyad and the moment they are "outed", they will be killed. It is sad for the Egyptian people, but that is the price you pay for refusing to make peace with Israel.
35. Yeah "democracy" worked well in the Iranian revolution
Danny   (01.31.11)
and did wonders for Gaza too, democracy is working a treat in Lebanon too. Democracy is not just about having "elections". It is about freedoms too. You think the Muslim Brotherhood are keen on that?
36. #29, neither were the Iranian people in 1979
Danny   (01.31.11)
37. #10, yeah just look at Iran
Danny   (01.31.11)
no corruption, people happy with their lives and a government with laser like focus on realising their people's aspirations.
38. Ask yourself
Ask yourself   (01.31.11)
Would you be willing to sit down with a legitimate Arab Democracy that represents Arabs? Western Powers view the rise of Islam to power through democracy as a failure of their policies, and would treat that regime as a hostile regime. So ask yourself this, how come extreme right wing religious/political factions can form government coalitions, have top ministers in the foreign governments, and yet still have a veil of legitimacy, while similar islamists do not have that cover? BTW, I really hate mixing religion with politics, as I think it’s a really stupid idea that would never work. Religion talks about ideals in a perfect world, while politics deals with the here and now in a twisted morally ambiguous world. But is still believe in democracy and respecting the choices of others .
39. # 10
Eduardo ,   France   (01.31.11)
True. So true!!!
40. my question to Ahmad
susan ,   dayton, ohio USA   (01.31.11)
Do you mean Egyptians or Muslims? What will this democracy of Egyptians do with their Egyptian Christians?
41. to 40
(01.31.11)
as long as the moslemes and the cristians in egypt are proud to be egyptions democracy will have its role / i know that all egyptions are proud of their country
42. to #29 wrong hamas is very active in the WB
ghostq   (01.31.11)
we all know abiout the plot to shoot rockets from the wb.
43. Ask yourself #38
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (01.31.11)
You might try to learn the difference between Islam and every other religion on the planet. You have no concept as to why we know that there can be nothing remotely close to a democracy under Sharia. Under Sharia all other religions must submit to the authority of Islam. Conversion from Islam carries the death penalty. Every single Muslim nation, yes all 56 of them not only have it on their law books, but enforce it. So tell us again how there can ever been any sort of democracy with that as a fundamental law. Go ahead tell us.
44. Who is best organized to take over?
Joe ,   Canada   (01.31.11)
In Egypt, besides the army only the extremist group of the Muslim Brotherhood is organized, powerful & is popular. So, even if it temporarily hides behind the less controversial figure of El Baradei (also no serious enemy of the Iranian nuclear program) it will eventually attempt to rule Egypt because it is driven by religious zeal that has no bounds. The Iranians had a brief taste of freedom after the demise of the Shah but are 30 years later still under a theocratic regime which reigns by terror & cheats in "democratic" elections. Gaza & Lebanon are two other examples where "democratic" elections lead to autoritarian Muslim regimes. And Irak, Turkey & Tunisia are probably leading in the same direction. How many other trials at democracy shall be attempted in countries where it is not the desired future of the majority of the people & where extremists have the upper hand? The current economic depression, like that of of 1929 is providing a fertile ground for religious & other idelogic extremists to get a favorably disposed ear to their demagogic propaganda. And they certainly will use any available democratic ploy to achieve their aim of wiping out democracy whenever they can.
45. Let us hope and pray you are right.
Iranian observer   (01.31.11)
Israel should support the creation of institutions which underpin democracy. It has failed to do so in Palestinian territories and I don't see any signs that it does so in other countries. Some of the resources allocated by Israel to military solutions should be allocated to building of democracy. This would help peace between nations.
46. Islamic Caliph
Dan Wilsom ,   Spokane USA   (01.31.11)
A new Islamic Caliph is emerging onto the world stage. This Islamic Caliph will eventual stretch from North Africa through the Middle East, Lebanon, Turkey, Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Pakistan, and down though Indonesia. The so-called tool for this process is the promise of a democracy, which will only create an avenue for Radical Islam usurpation. The implementation of Sharia Law will be enforced throughout this new Islamic Caliph. The next nation to fall will be Yemen and then Jordan. There will be Global Jihad against any nation supporting Israel. They will back-up their threat by cutting off the oil supplies to the West. Israel with nothing to offer the West will fall victim to this ploy. The elimination of Israel will be the rallying mantra of this new Islamic Caliph. Think not? Germany is already initiating a second Holocaust through its proxy Iran. To date, Germany has skirted around the new UN sanctions against Iran by delivering almost 3 billion dollars in economic relief to Iran. With this continual support by Germany, Iran can focus all its resources on building its nuclear arsenal. Iran now is the significant player in this whole process since Mahmoud Ahmadinejad has repeatedly called for wiping Israel off the face of the world. The naivety of this reporter is astounding for his lack of insight into the unfolding events occurring within the Middle East. His interpretation of a harmonious outcome is without any foundation. The new hegemony in the region will be the ideology of the Global Jihadists. With Iran controlling Lebanon by way of proxy of Hezbollah and Syria in the North and Hamas in the South and Iraq and Oman to the East, Israel will find itself alone once again fighting for its very survival.
47. democracy in Egypt
yael ,   israel   (01.31.11)
A new democratic regime in egypt could democratically elect a radical islamic government. This does not promise the Egyptian people a life of freedom, equality and opportunity and it might or might not adversely affect israel. If this is what they want let them have it. But no whining afterwards that they are oppressed & miserable.
48. Granting voting rights?
Davy ,   Australia   (02.01.11)
This is really funny - for someone who talks about democracy in the same breath as arguing against granting voting rights to "certain" people. How do you spell your brand of "democracy"?
49. Islamic Caliphate??
Davy ,   Australia   (02.01.11)
This is another funny one. What Islamic Caliphate are you talking about when the Sunnis and Shias can't even agree among themselves, and in fact kill each other.
50. Iranian bogeyman & Canadian experience
Davy ,   Australia   (02.01.11)
There's too much use of Iran as the Islamic bogeyman in the same way the US used to do with Communism. Worth reminding everyone thatr iran is Persian while the rest of the Middle-East (excluding Turkey) are Arabs - they don't like each other for a start. As for the Canadian talk show anecdote, are you suggesting to the Egyptians to continue swallowing the Mubarak dictatorship for another 30 years, for Israel's sake?
51. Israel is a terrorist state and thus not a democracy
Paulo ,   Portugal   (02.01.11)
You talk about Egypt can not be a democracy, I believe the people of Egipt will defeat Mubarak and his regime and implante the democracy with sucess. But you israelis don't have any democracy, istead you have a terroris state comeeting all types of brutalities and occupie your neighbor countries. Portuguese citizan.
52. Democracy in Muslim Countries
E ,   Los Angeles, USA   (02.01.11)
Everyone bringing up democracy as an impossibility in the Muslim world apparently forget or ignore that Iran had a secular parliamentary democracy until Mosadegh tried to nationalize oil and the Brits asked the U.S. to overthrow him, installing the Shah and training the SAVAK, resentment of which for abusing the population led to the 1979 Revolution and Anti-Americanism. The key to avoiding an Islamist takeover in Egypt is to not support repression. Netanyahu is drawing a Star of David on the boot on the neck of Egyptians by departing from his previous wise course of saying absolutely nothing.
53. #51, you are an idiot, at best.
noa ,   israel   (02.01.11)
54. Asia z Polski, you're right but there is
Alex ,   Petah-Tikva   (02.01.11)
another, even more important detail. The communism in Poland, like in Czekhoslovakia was "imported"by the Soviet occupation. And yeas, Solidarnosc knew exactly what thet wanted
55. Reply to 47
Paul ,   Portland Oregon USA   (02.01.11)
Why do you have a problem with Egyptians electing a radical right wing government when Israel elected a radical right wing government. What's good for the goose ...is good for the gander
56. #50, Dacy, Au: Repulsive statement
Thomas ,   Dixieland USA   (02.01.11)
Communism as mere "bogeymen'? As an ex-Gulag inmate - in the name of millions killed and enslaved in the world over by the Communists - your inane sentence is the pure reflection of your wretched mind.
57. Paul #56 you are truly stupid
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (02.01.11)
If you think that the Israeli government is even right wing let along radical right wing. Our government is far to left of the US government and most governments on this planet. We have never had a right wing government let along a radical one. Just because Bibi is to the right of Livni and the putz Peres does not make a right winger. But wait you will one day see one and then you might learn something, but I don't it because you are way too stupid to understand facts.
58. "democracy" by Plocker
joel ,   usa   (02.02.11)
the big question really is, these muslim arabs in Egypt are not demanding "freedom" since they don't know democracy from birth, they are "swayed" naively by the extremist Muslim Brotherhood link to Al Qaeda to take over power to rule the egytians in an 'iranian shiite" ways, very clear!
59. on #2
joel ,   usa   (02.02.11)
this kind of reasoming is just simply the truth about the egyptians, the muslim brotherhood is the planner/oragnizer of this protest to take over and rule Egypt the Iranian ways and Al Qaeda style!
60. on #17's opinion
joel ,   usa   (02.02.11)
yeah, this opinion is very reasonable and factual, but do this egyptians know world history or, just egyptian history, and they want to commit the same mistakes!
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