The price of moderation
Martin Sherman
Published: 06.03.11, 19:13
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1. Congratulations Mr. Sherman
FO ,   Belgium   (03.06.11)
Congratulations Mr. Sherman for mentioning that Prof. Eugene Rostow was indeed the author of UN resolution 242. He was indeed under-secretary of state, but also dean of the school of law at Yale. Most important of all, and nobody has ever mentioned it, are his articles concerning the so called "settlements". In an article with as title "Are the settlements legal ?" and published in October 1991, he wrote: ...."The British Mandate recognized the right of the Jewish People to "close settlement" in the whole of the Mandated territory. It was provided that local conditions might require Great Britain to "pospone" or "withhold" Jewish settlements in what is now Jordan. This was done in 1922. But the Jewish right of settlement in Palestine West of the Jordan river, that is, the West Bank, Jerusalem, and the Gaza Strip, was made unassailable. That right has never been terminated and cannot be terminated except by a peace between Israel and its neighbors. And perhaps not even then, in view of Article 80 of the U.N. Charter....." Incredible isn'it? Written by the author of U.N. Resolution 242 ! Ever seen an Israeli leader using the above arguments ?
2. Rabble-rouser and ruffian
Brian   (03.06.11)
You offer nothing new or constructive. Your views are outdated and meaningless in the current world order. Return to your place under the rock.
3. Read the other article: Palestinians do not want peace
Brian ,   Judean Peoples Front   (03.06.11)
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4038454,00.html "Khaled Mashaal attends conference on Jerusalem in Sudan, calls for reconciliation between Hamas, Fatah based on 'Jihad' against Israel." Once again the world should be marking "Palestinian Genocide-Against-Israel Week", but instead the Palestinian propaganda machine continues to push the phony "apartheid" lie while the world ignores the true intentions of the Palestinians. Read the article folks, and then keep pretending that Israel is the problem. It will get the world nowhere.
4. Thank you
Yoav ,   Vancouver, Canada   (03.06.11)
That..was well put.
5. You could be right . . .
noa ,   israel   (03.06.11)
We just don't want to be perpetrators of the continuing status quo-which is hate. Since we are the smaller population, no matter how smart we are, it seemed as if peace would be in our interest. Decisions are made all the time. No one knows for sure what will be the outcome, that's why there is no magic solution.
6. Do I understand properly
Jarda ,   Czech republic   (03.06.11)
Israel needs some living space?
7. Great article!
Joe ,   asaf12@gmail.com   (03.06.11)
Terrific analysis with actual facts unlike another author here. *cough*Lapid*cough*
8. Those pesky cousins of ours...
Steve Ahoy ,   Raanana, Israel   (03.06.11)
Why don't they just realize that they can't live here anymore? Maybe they will all convert and then we can have our Jewish Taliban state and no more foolish talk about democracy and getting a handle on the pending ecological catastrophe.
9. Reservations?
PixelatedDwarf ,   USA   (03.06.11)
We made the Indians here live on "reservations" and no one has problems with that here. They are citizens. Has anyone suggested that?
10. Who needs the Left?
Rachel ,   US   (03.06.11)
No one did more to de-legitimize Israel than Bibi when he implemented the freeze and supported a 2nd one.
11. sherman is correct
marcel   (03.06.11)
beilin ben ami, peres, barak, olmert and livni are primarily responsible along with their boosters and liars in haaretz(dressing up olmert as clean and barak as some war hero which he is not in my opinion based on his conduct since 2000) for advancing 2 state with major concessions in compatible with israeli defense. Add to this the pressure exerted my baidetz and even ashkenazi who suggested returning the golan for some arrangement brings auschwitz borders that eban decried. Oslo with clinton dressing it up in washington was illusory and created a dream like euphoria of a 'european' type confederation of states with everyone enjoying the fruits of their labour. Again, arab protests against their regimes highlighted and egged on by anderson cooper and ben weideman do not make all t heir goals correct. Arab society is tribal and religious and exclusionary. israel is finished and I mean it, if it doesn't establish realistic security borders. And if it votes for livni in the next election, it will be finished because livni is ehud olmert in a dress.
12. responsibility of israel pm
alexi   (03.06.11)
the israeli pm does not have to be an expert in all fields but there are certain things he and he alone has to ensure. He has to ensure that in his own mind the idf is ready for all types of threats like asymetric hezbollah and fires. Its not enough that yishai's department had not readied the fire services. They fall under national security. PM had to ensure that fire services=-planes and retardants are ready. Bibi and lieberman did a good job getting european and american planes in the air to help put out the fire. But bibi had to know that israel was not ready before the fire. So he has to go the hearing where the bereaved will be present regardless of attacks. And he has to answer questions. recall that olmert chickened out of facing the bereaved in the 2006 war. Bibbi should not follow in olmert's footsteps and should take questionning even if they are vigorous.
13. # 6 Jarda - Livng Space
MARTIN SHERMAN   (03.06.11)
Jarda The correct analogy which you should be considering is the fate that befell Czechoslovakia when they were forced to concede the mountainous Sudeten region because of demands of an ethnic minority. This made the country irresistibly vulnerable and the rest is history
14. Two States ??
Amram ,   Toronto, Canada   (03.06.11)
Yes! Israel and Jordan
15. as usual, no solutions
Dave Berg ,   usa   (03.07.11)
That is because the solutions are not compatible with a modern democracy. If the author wants Israel to annex the occupied lands, why not say so? But also advocate for equal rights for the citizens who were living there before any Jew set foot on the land. He has no solutions, only saying what he doesn't want. Sorry, you can't declare sovereignity over the land but keep the people living under oppression without human or legal rights.
16. To #11: Marcel is correct too.
Israeli 2   (03.06.11)
I agree with you and your sentiments except that the near future predicts Israel to be victorious on all fronts.
17. Martin #13
Jarda ,   Czech republic   (03.06.11)
If you know history of Czechoslovakia, you probably know as well that in 1918, there were denied self-determination of 3.5 milions of Germans. And if you know a present situation in Central Europe, you can compare Czechoslovakia in1918 with what remains from it. How many borders risen and how many border ceased? Where are Germans, Slovaks, Jews, Ruthenians, Magyars? And why?
18. 1state solution
Skeptic ,   USA   (03.07.11)
Gaza is a mess. There are no Jews there. They can have independence. The West Bank is a different situation. Israel won't give up security, so de facto the Arabs there must fall under the IDF. But that is not a problem , the 20% of Israeli Arabs fall under the IDF, I would argue, are protected by the IDF. So unless genocide or forced expulsion is proffered, and I won't hear of either, that leaves only one solution - the 1-state solution. Jews argue (and fear) this will swamp the Jewish state - Arabs become the majority, either immediately or soon thereafter. This is a legitimate argument. There is a solution - Federation, under the IDF, of a majority Jewish state and majority Arab state, each with a 20% minority, and of course, open internal borders and freedom of movement inside. This is workable, sane and democratic. It cannot happen until the West Bank Arabs are democratic, because marriage between a democratic and a fascist state will result in one fascist state. It offers the full flowering of both people without taking anything from the other. The first step is for both people to accept this so that both can start now to work toward it.
19. # 2 & # 15 - Solutions: the Humanitarian Option
MARTIN SHERMAN   (03.07.11)
Brian (#2) and David (#15) See the Humanitarian Option http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3863043,00.html
20. Nice fantasy
To Martin ,   usa   (03.07.11)
If there is one thing we have learned in recent decades, it is that the Pals seem to be as attached to the land as the immigrant Jews are. This is proven by their tenacity in staying, despite a brutal, unending military occupation. Why not have the rich Western countries pay money for Jews to immigrate back to Europe or the US and repatriate the stolen land back to the original owners, the Palestinians? All who wish to stay as citizens, be they Jew or Palestinian would have equal rights and liberties. There would be one democracy for all and not for one race or religion in particular. The people who are given a financial incentive to leave, Jew or Arab could start a new life elsewhere.
21. The Signs
ג'ון הנביא   (03.07.11)
Israel, the Middle East is ablaze all around you. The beast is encircling you as predicted. The Signs are adding up Israel as the prophets of old and today having been warning you.It's time you started listening and stopped groveling to your earthly masters!
22. Democracy is not a suicide pact
Greg ,   Boston, USA   (03.07.11)
Don't confuse human and legal rights with political rights. Tens of millions of illegal aliens and green card holders enjoy all human rights in the US but can't vote in our elections. Jewish people self-preservation trumps any politically correct BS. Besides, all the usual suspects will find the pretext to damn Israel even if she granted Pals full political rights anyways, so why bother? :)
23. #19 - repeat1948 solution is more realisitc
Greg ,   Boston, USA   (03.07.11)
Mr. Sherman, I fully agree with arguments in your article ( which are well known to everyone interested in real conflict end ) and admire "Humanitarian option" you propose. Unfortunately, the way events unfold around Israel, Nakba solution is much more likely: in this scenario, Iran and her Arab satellites satellites attack Israel which trigger Pal terror and Israel Arab riots circa 2000. In order to survive Israelis will forced to annihilate Arab fifth column with a great loss of life, eventually deporting those who survives. As in 1948, this will eliminate any Arab demographic threat long-term. I wish I were wrong and Humanitarian Option takes care of problem instead.
24. Martin sees things clearly... a few more points:
eddie ,   london UK   (03.07.11)
First - the quote from Eiland in 2009 is nothing new - it was already being said in the 80s, by those who opposed the 2 state solution, even by people like Rabin. Next, the delegitimization analysis is also correct - but there are additional aspects to this : I said even in 1988 that land for peace would only increase world pressure on Israel and not decrease it. And this has happened because the world has not accepted Jewish restoration of their own land and capital city - and also Islam and the Arab world are much larger than the Jewish world, and have greater influence. And the Islamic world largely wants to destroy all of Israel, not just the west bank. If they wanted peace, there would be compromise, there would be land offers form the surrounding states, and also to absorb refugees. The next danger is that of the west bank becoming another Gaza. Not only will millions of palestinains be transferred there, but also terror groups from around the region, africa, afghanistan, iran , lebanon etc. If today they are worried by 1 million palestinains, there will be 5 million, plus 1 million strong army of terror with no accountability for their actions.- once a palestinian state is established.
25. to 7
this article is dealing as if the problem is geografic lands and borders =lapid made it a it is people -both are looking from one aspect -the israili aspect ..as if there is no land or palastinian peoples ..if both are right ,i see that geography may changed in a very long time may need thousands of years or a massive natural mestry ..but people may changed in evry generation it is about time and history or a massive natural or human mestry. ...........sure the upper hand is -god hand -over human and nature .we can take reasons only
26. to 8
you made it so easy about conversion ... but if you are from these nisky lisky propatisky or any isky cousins you should know that conversion is impooslble ..do you know why becouse iam the risky cousin
27. One state solution Is Accepted
Julianne Gustafson ,   Houston, Texas   (03.07.11)
Regarding Mr. Sherman's assertion that the one state solution is difficult to be accepted by all parties, both Israeli, Palestinian and the U.S. I do believe he is wrong. Most scholars have come to realize that trying to make a state of territory that has been rendered Swiss-cheese-like by European and Western squatters is ridiculous. They are now favoring a one state where ALL humans living in that territory will have civil and human rights. In this state, the refugees will be allowed to return home from where they were driven and those who choose not to return will be compensated honestly for lands and property taken from them. This means that Israel will cease to exist as it is now: a racist apartheid state. The Zionist state realizes this and spends millions of dollars delegitimazing the rights of the Palestinians but it is of no avail as the world is now much smarter that it used to be.
28. Martin Sherman: Once again, I am
Robert Haymond ,   Israel/Canada   (03.07.11)
thankful for such an incisive, researched and thoughtful journalistic piece, one which helps form and affirm my own perspective on these matters. I never fail to read your works when I see your byline under an article.
29. To Martin from the U.S.A.
noa ,   israel   (03.07.11)
Would you want to live in a country where almost all your ancestors were murdered, and often with collaboration of that country's civilian population? The nerve.
30. I started to answer Martin and someone from London.
noa ,   israel   (03.07.11)
Wait a minute here: in America bigots for years used to say about the blacks, "Go back to Africa where you came from." Ironic isn't it? A bigot is a bigot.
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