Something rotten in Norway
Manfred Gerstenfeld
Published: 27.03.11, 13:23
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Orao. ,   Srbia.   (03.27.11)
2. I can pretty much guess how Israel-haters would respond
Tahl   (03.27.11)
They would probably repeat the same worn-out, empty slogan, "every time someone dares criticize the illegal actions of Israel, immediately he is branded anti-semitic"... Of course, catchy slogans which absolve of guilt and critical thinking, always enjoy great popularity among the dimwitted lot. To Norway's credit though, there are many smart people there who know better than to believe the antisemitic lies and propaganda of their establishment. The trouble is, this majority is always silent. Perhaps we need to boost our hasbarah efforts in Scandinavia in order to reach them.
3. About Norway
Mie caton ,   USA   (03.27.11)
To Allan Dershowitz, my Brooklyn College co-alumus, '59. Norway 's problem is that it is too rich, too comfortable, too far-removed from military conflicts, and therefore, utopistic, and self-righteous . They have (enjoy?) too little connection wit the real, often unpleasant, imperfect world thousands of miles beyond their long-peacefu borders.
4. Totally agree with author
Mark ,   J-lem   (03.27.11)
Especially with "Why bother part". How someone could be so ignorant not to understand that international politics starts from small not influential countries? But amount of allies affects the international opinion, UN, and more importantly it's decisions. Arabs understand that, that's why we have current UN resolution on every Israel's action. FM wake up ALREADY!
5. Article is 100% right
Gaddafi ,   Tripoli, Libya   (03.27.11)
These Norwegians take hallucination pills and that's why they act against Israel.
6. Norway
Ger ,   Raanana, Israel`   (03.27.11)
Despite the rampant anti-Semitism present in Norway, our stores continue to sell Norwegian smoked salmon. Canada is one of the most pro-Israel countries in the world, and it would probably be very willing to sell its Nova Scotia smoked salmon. Support our friends, not our enemies
7. Norwegians are Not Antisemetic
Thomas ,   US   (03.27.11)
Norway, along with Sweden, have become the rape capitals of Europe and ask any of the legal authorities who is responsible for making it so over the last 20 years and they will tell you it's the Muslim immigrants but they cannot publicly say so*. All the Norwegians can do is thank the Muslims for enriching their society. It must be very uncomfortable for Norwegians to look upon a country, like Israel, that cares enough about its children to protect them and punish those that hurt or even threatens them. *http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GvlFm4AwAqI Notice this Norwegian police oficer has to describe the guilty as "young men from traumatized societies where women are viewed differently." It's when nobody is on camera that a significant number of perpetrators are identified as Somalian and Kurdish.
8. not true...
viking ,   dubai   (03.27.11)
we are just independent and not blind to the truth. Israel is not and should not be immune from criticisim in Norway, just as any other country accross the globe, Israel should not be given special treatment, when it goes about killing 1000 plus palestinians in a couple of weeks.
9. Ufffffffffffffff ffffffffffffffffffffff ffffffffffffffffffff
Salma ,   Palestine   (03.27.11)
symphony of anti-Semitism is soooooo booooooooring.
10. Criticism is healthy
Israprof ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (03.27.11)
I think it is good for Israel to receive criticism. It makes us look carefully at ourselves. We are not perfect but we have a right to self-defense. However, perhaps we do need to change our ways concerning settlement expansion. The Palestinians have a right to liberty and self-determination. Let us remember that they are also the children of Abraham.
11. 1
anton ,   istanbul turkey   (03.27.11)
are you for real? einstein was right about human stupidity :D
12. Something rotten with Mr. Gerstenfeld
A ,   Israel   (03.27.11)
As a Norwegian living in Israel and married to an Israeli I was profoundly taken aback by Mr. Gerstenfeld's vicious attack on Norway. I grew up in Norway, an egalitarian society that puts human values above all. Of course I can only speak for myself, but growing up as a secular, but Christian (state and church is not seperated) in Norway I never witnessed a single uttering of anything degrading with regards to Israel. In fact, Israel was a country that was admired and looked up to and waves of young Norwegians spent considerable time in the Kibbutzim in the 70s and 80s as volunteers. When I was growing up (in the 60s-70s) Israel was considered a cool and fascinating place to be. Unfortunately, Norwegians today cannot understand the occupation of the Palestinian people. This is what is eroding support for Israel today. It is very hard for Norwegians to reconcile that Israel has built a succesful country, at the expense of another people by denying the Palestinians their right to freedom and self determination. I am sure some anti semitism exists, however I am convinced this is a very small part of the Norwegian landscape. Unfortunately, until Israel stops its rule of another people this situation will only worsen . BTW, not sure if Mr. Gerstenfeld is aware that the Holocaust is taught extensively in Norwegian schools and tens of thousands of Norwegian youth visit Auschwitz every year through a program sponsored by the Norwegian Ministry of Education .
13. Salma
Andy ,   Canada   (03.27.11)
Then why do you follow all the Jewish press? Interesting how your views are allowed on this site and Dershowitz not allowed to speak in supposedly democratic Norway?
14. #5 LOL, haha so funny
masrawy ,   egypt   (03.27.11)
15. #12 Dodging the author's points, A ?
Tahl   (03.27.11)
In your anti-Israel tirade, you conveniently dodge all of the points raised by Gerstenfeld. I'd like to see you respond to each of the following questions: Why did the Norwegian universities give stage to Israel-haters like Ilan Pappe and Stephen Walt to spew their venom against Israel, but refused to let Alan Dershowitz present an opposing viewpoint? Does academic freedom of speech work only one-way with regards to Israel? Why does the NRK station always show Israel negatively, and ignores all the postive about it, as well as the negative sides of the Palestinians? Does the comparison between Israel's war in Gaza in response to rocket attacks, and Gaddafi's bombing of his people, seem plausible to you? Is it condonable for a journalist to put words into an interviewee's mouth, which he never said? And what kind of silly committee gives an award for such an unprofessional journalist? Doesn't Norway have a rich history of antisemitism as Gerstenfeld mentions - is he making all of this up? Isn't the Israeli flag considered an anathema in Norway today? Didn't the Norwegian education ministry recently forbid a teacher from coming to school with a star-of-David ring, since this was considered 'offensive' to some Muslim students? If Norwegians are such "an egalitarian society that puts human values above all" - then where is their care to all the Israeli citizens who were murdered by relentless Palestinian terror? Why do they care only about Palestinians rights? Why don't they speak up just as adamently about the rights of Israelis to live in peace? And lastly, when have you been to Norway for the last time, that you so resolutely declare that antisemitism "is a very small part of the Norwegian landscape"? Would you dare walking the streets of Oslo with a traditional Jewish garb, or a star-of-David printed on your shirt, next to your husband wearing a kippah?
16. We must be terrible people
Tore ,   Oslo, Norway   (03.27.11)
To have pissed of Alan an Manfred this much. As for Alan, as far as I know he is not a political scientist/social anthropologist etc, so holding a lecture on Israel at the University seems a bit odd. I'm sure there were a lot of High schools who would love to have him. But for the University he is not qualified. As for lecture on international law. I thought criminal law is his specialty, not international law. Again he is not qualified. He might be a famous harvard professor, but you don't send a Proctologist to lecture about Neurology. If Allan thinks this is anti-semitism he should really take a chill pill. As for Manfred, why do you hate us so much?
17. Dershowitz as the face of Zionism
Tomek ,   Poland   (03.27.11)
does disservice to Israel. He is an ugly character through and through. He is mean, vengeful, and morally rotten. His crusade against Finkelstein, his support of torture, his blind loyalty to a foreign country are nor endearing qualities, either. Norwegians take a moral stand against Israel and her actions but you are deliberately too blind to see it. I recommend some soul searching before before you start to scream antisemitism.
18. Stop Giving Them Excuses
Canadian Dude ,   Canada   (03.27.11)
When Norwegians accuse Israel of occupying other peoples (Palestinians) and demolishing their homes, wouldn't it be nice for a change if Israelis could honestly answer that they aren't doing this? You think seizing land, expanding settlements, having your police and soldiers stand aside while settlers beat the snot out of Palestinian farmers, you think this is going to make Norwegians see you in a more positive light? A lesson in Jewish morality for all those amongst you who've forgotten: DO UNTO OTHERS AS YOU WOULD HAVE DONE UNTO YOURSELVES.
19. Norway -organized state anti-Semitism
citizen   (03.27.11)
Are we surpised? not really. Norway has a long and dreadful history - during WW2 the entire Jewish community (those who did not manage to escape Norway) was either sen tot death camps or murdered by the Nazi collaborators. What with the rise of the Muslim population in their midst, it does seem that, maybe of out of fear and cowardness- but possibly out of simple Jew-hate, the state is sponsorship organized anti-Semitism.
20. # 10 & # 12 Self-determination
menachem ,   Israel   (03.27.11)
When the Arabs learn to respect the right of self-determination of the Jewish people of Israel, they will achieve their own self-determination. So far the Arabs have rejected every peaceful two-state proposal: 1937, 1947, 1967, 2000, 2007 and 2009. The Arabs have only themselves to blame for their current state so please spare us the crocodile tears.
21. # 7 Norway and Sweden not anti-Semitic?
Menachem ,   Israel   (03.27.11)
No of course not. They just prefer dead Jews to Jews defending their existence in its own homeland. The Scandinavians give a new depth to the words chutzpah and hypocrisy.
22. Hypocrites
Sam M ,   UK   (03.27.11)
The Norwegian example can be seen in many other parts of europe where a small, influential and for the most part unelected, liberal elite set a virulently anti-Israel agenda which is accepted at face value by the majority who are denied the benefit of hearing the other side of the argument. Far from being true democrats these pygmies have hypocritically redefined democracy to exclude anything they deem to be 'politically incorrect'. It doesnt suprise me that Dershowitz wasn't allowed to put Israel's case. Likewise in Britain anyone who tries to put a pro-Israel point of view in any university is shouted down and frequently attacked as recent examples have shown. All of this makes Isreal's democracy look like the genuine article given the extreme anti-Israel views expressed by both Israeli's and arabs in the media not to mention it's universities. There should be an ongoing independent debate between Norwegians and Israeli's who can make up their own minds completely by-passing these idiots who think they have the right to ban free speech in the name of 'democracy'.
23. Obsessed with a little country thousands of miles away.....
tiki ,   belgium   (03.27.11)
Do they have anything better to do? Getting 'obsessed about a country far away takes their mind of the fact that THEY didn't/don't have much to contribute to the planet they live on. Does anyone know some great or even small Norvegian inventions, exept some fish coming out of the sea? So a little obsession and lots of alcohol do help to ease this feeling of uselessness.
24. #8 please explain
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (03.27.11)
You are apparently referring to the "Cast Lead" operation. Why are you criticizing Israel? It makes no sense. Hamas, the democratically elected government of Gaza, openly declares that it intends to exterminate every single Jew, genocide, a war crime. They proudly fired thousands of rockets, including advanced Russian and Iranian rockets, at Israeli civilian targets, genocide, a war crime. In response, Israel attacked Hamas (perfectly legally) and in the ensuing war about 900 armed combatants died in addition to about 300 non-combatants (killed both by Hamas and Israeli fire). Everyone knows that even if Israel killed all these non-combatants, 25% collateral damage is unusually low. In similar conditions, the Americans and British typically have a 50% to 75% collateral damage ratio. I would also be happy to hear your thoughts about the civilians butchered by Obama in Afghanistan and Libya.
25. Norway
Ken ,   Australia   (03.27.11)
Its still obvious,the germanics were not the only jew haters in scandinavia.
26. censorship is not criticism
ilana ,   netanya   (03.27.11)
To all those saying Israel should be criticized, read the article again: it starts off with Alan Dershowitz not being allowed to give a pro-Israel talk at 3 universities. To Thomas: Israel was seen as cool all over Europe - even the world - in the 60s and 70s. The change is not just due to "the occupation", although that may be part of it, but also to things like the growing Muslim populations of Europe. And if Norwegians "cannot understand" why Israel is ruling another people, maybe they should educate themselves before taking a stance. I for example have no views about conflicts and issues I know nothing about except what I read in the papers (which I take with a large pinch of salt).
27. the mauser karabiner 98
sweeter than honey ,   far away   (03.27.11)
was the standard german infantry rifle from 1935 on, and post ww2 stocks were used by the norwegian and israeli military up to the 1970's, whether bought, liberated, black market etc., from post ww2 stocks is another story. both countries armourers betimes adapted to 7.62 nato. the difference betwen the israeli and norwegians is that israeli armourers also removed the swastika die stamp near the serial number, the norwegians did not think that appropriate. the article points to the norwegian establishment. i have no record of any norwegian military, political, etc., seeking a removal. remember that picture of the nazi hero in jodphurs shooting the jewish mother carrying a baby (not a long range rifle) in back of head point blank . yep, it's a mauser 98, with a swastika on the barrel. the norwegians used them then sold them on..
28. No Salma # 9
Eaglebeak ,   Left Coast, USA   (03.27.11)
Boring is constantly hearing the Palestinians play the sympathy card crying about their self inflicted problems and blaming Israel for them. You like to speak of the many Palestinian acheivements but you have yet to name one. If you could name a few of them I am sure that would be quite interesting.
29. Norway sounds disgusting
David ,   USA   (03.27.11)
Bunch of whale killers and Jew haters. Norway has not been relevant since the Vikings really.
30. Anti-semitic because they deny D. a platform?
Max Maier ,   Germany   (03.27.11)
Do I understand it correctly that Mr Dershowitz invited himself to these universities and then complains about anti-semitism when they turn him down? It seems to be more an issue of Mr Dershowitz's bloated sense of self importance than of Norwegian anti-semitism. Does he seriously believe that he is so important that universities should fall over themselves to give him a platform? Mr. Dershowitz is welcome to rent a room in a conference center if he wants to stage a propaganda event.
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