just a fire-place tale that can be told to our grandchildren. Maybe that's the Elyiahu we should be expecting and not the mythological (highly inprobable) "Navi" ??

If you look at the historical background of these small groups what will you find? They were formed in response to the Arab riots and massacres in the 1920's of the Jewish people. So they were originally formed to defend the Jewish people, which as we all know even today is frowned upon. The Lehi group was the smallest of them all, and it split the Jewish groups because most did NOT approve of their tactics. Haganah had about 17,000 men and 4,000 women members. Irgun only had about 1,800 members total. Lehi about 400 members. I just think background is important, and to leave out: they formed as a response to Arab terrorism, This was BEFORE Israel's rebirth. Remember that!! Arabs killed Jews with terrorism just like today, before Israel was reborn. That's why peace talks are a joke.

the brits wanted to bomb the red army after germany was defeated... so what

Walter Edward Guinness, 1st Baron Moyne (1880–1944), assassinated by lehi in cairo. His son, Bryan Guinness, 2nd Baron Moyne (1905–1992) married Diana Mitford (the beer brewing dynasty). They latter divorced but she remarried in 1936 at the home of Joseph Goebbels, with Adolf Hitler as guest of honour, to the leader of the British Union of Fascists. She remained a staunch fascist and anti-semite throughout her life. She was for example lead literary reviewer of the London Evening Standard newspaper. One of her sons is max mosely, who was exposed by the british news of the world newspaper as an habitue of prostitutes who dressed in concentration camp uniforms, both german and inmate for his entertainment. Even though the assasinated moyne regarded his daughter-in-law as dangerous, as a threat to the british establishment, it would be a mistake to consider him a zionist. Joel Brand testified in the Eichmann trial in 1961 that it was Moyne who said "What shall I do with those million Jews?" vis a vis eichmann's blut fur ware proposal. brand joined had joined lehi one month before the assassination. moyne was part and parcel of the british policy of restricting jewish immigration to palestine. he has some very good arguements against immigration. i have not heard he was in any way involved with the successful british plan to assasinate heydrich. Those sort of people, those sort of circles.

it. Better less than more but it was their stubborn love of the arabs and hatred of the Jews that cost them their lives.

The Balfor Declaration. He made the first Partition of Palestine when he drew in a map the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan only to please the Saudi King. Chrchill along with Bevin were guilty of the loss of millions of Jews for not acting swiftly against the Germans. They could have bombed the Railroads leading to the concetration camps. They new of the Concentration and depth camps already by th end of 1942 Bevin enforced the White Book. And to make things worse they armed the Jordanians to their teeth before leaving Palestine.

I agree with all you say about Churchill, esp. #7. But as many people are not all black or all white, let's also remember that many credit his spunk and personality with leading the UK towards victory in WW2. Ben Gurion said to resist the British as if there was no WW2 and fight the nazis alongside the British, as if there was no problem in Palestine. We should do the same when we remember, and give him a large part of the credit that we are not all speaking German (and that we are in fact alive).