Opinion
The art of disproportion
Avi Yesawich
Published: 09.04.11, 16:40
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1. Every single word is correct!
David   (04.09.11)
2. Please forward to Ehud Barak.
Terry ,   Eilat - Israel   (04.09.11)
Perhaps he needs a reminder. Mr Yesawich is preaching to the choir, so to speak. I think most sane people here in Israel agree wholeheartedly with this article. Our supporters overseas also understand. Since anti-Israel sentiment in Europe & the US is based on the irrational, on lies & propaganda, nothing we do or say makes any difference. The Islamists & their far-left allies don't even think we should exist. It is our own politicians who need to get the message.
3. Brilliant opinion piece!
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (04.09.11)
At last, someone who understands the true nature of terrorism and the threat it represents not just to Israel, but to civilization. Kudos to you, Mr. Yesawich, for pointing out the disgraceful hypocrisy of the international community. Thank you.
4. Israel should respond proportionally
Greg ,   Boston, USA   (04.09.11)
I suggest 100:1 proportion: kill 100 terrorists ( not counting collateral damage) for every Jew hurt. Also, does Israel still supplies electricity and water to the people who shell her cities? Sounds like classical definition of insanity.
5. Great post.
JR ,   USA   (04.09.11)
.
6. This nonsense causes more civilian casualities
Danny   (04.09.11)
because guess where Hamas and Hizbollah put their weapon stores?
7. any sane person would agree
Mark ,   USA   (04.09.11)
Any sane person would agree with the idea of disproportionate response. The world and the US have crippled Israel time and again and have essentially created the horrible situation that exists today. Israel has never been allowed to finish the fight that the arabs have started. The arabs have never had to pay the price that the Germans and Japanese had to pay for their aggression. It's time that Israel send the message that Israel is here to stay.
8. Disproportiante response... not at all!
seadog1946 ,   ArthurKill, NJ   (04.09.11)
As Moshe Dayan said... “Israel must be a like a mad dog, too dangerous to bother.” but then... Q: How do you deal with a mad dog? A: You put it down... mercifully.
9. Confusion...
Brandon Weinstock ,   Herzliya   (04.09.11)
While I agree with the notion of deterring Hamas, it appears that the author has confused the notion of proportionality. Proportionality, once in a state of armed conflict, does not have anything directly to do with the weight or type of response. Meaning, proportionality does not require Israel to respond to a Hamas rocket or mortar with a similar response. Proportionality does however require Israel to measure against the effects produced by the response. Meaning, in relation to the military advantage gained by Israel's response, are the civilian casualties excessive? I am of the opinion that in the overall context of this armed conflict with Hamas, Israel acts well within the notion of proportionality. Israel makes exceptional effort to distinguish between civilians and combatants and is very cautious when it comes to civilian casualties, which, for better or worse, are permissible in armed conflict.
10. Of course. USA uses disproportionate force in every war.
Cynic ,   USA   (04.09.11)
11. Window of opportunity
King David ,   Las Vegas, USA   (04.09.11)
It's easy to criticize safely from my iPhone in Las Vegas with no known relatives in IDF but it seems there is a window now to relentlessly attack Gaza and a cease fire will only happen if: 1. Weapons flow to Gaza is strangled; 2. Gilad is returned safely. It is not more complicated than this. It appears the "new," Egypt could be sympathetic to Gaza so now is the type to crush Gaza before Egypt is solidified. I also didnt like Israel's message to world regarding the school bus being an inexecusable attack. ANY ATTACK from Gaza is inexecusable.
12. #8 seamongrel
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL   (04.09.11)
The idea is not to get the dog mad in the first place But, with your limited ability to understand the situation it's beyond your understanding Now, why not get in your little dinghy and scuttle it in the middle of nowhere ? Just make sure you go down with the dinky dinghy
13. Proportionality is Required by International Law
Doug ,   Rochester, USA   (04.09.11)
Violating it is a War Crime. #9 has thecorrect definition of Proportionality. But I completely disagree with his statement "Israel makes exceptional effort to distinguish between civilians and combatants " The IDF has highly accurate weapons, yet in Cast Lead, the number of combatants killed was between 351 and 383. The remainder of the 1396 killed were non-combatants. About 3 out of every 4 killed were non-combatants!!!!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proportionality_(law)
14. Another cowardly response from an Israeli...
Mikesailor ,   Miami, FL   (04.09.11)
I guess 1400 killed in Cast Lead was proportionate to the number of Israelis killed? Especially since most of the Israeli casualties were inflicted by 'friendly' fire. That the blockade imposed on Gaza limiting by government calculation the number of calories allocated to civiilians and banning exports in also 'proportionate'? When this 'combat soldier' actually fights against an armed foe who has the resouces of the IDF, then he can call himself, or be labelled as, a 'combat' soldier. Otherwise he, like the rest of the IDF are merely jailers advocating violence against the defenceless.
15. Yes, disproportionate
Ibrahim Ibn Yusuf ,   Rosario, Argentina   (04.09.11)
Mr. Yesawich, Israel intentionally destroys power plants, flour mills and chicken coops, which have absolutely no military value whatsoever, in a clear drive to punish a whole population for the crimes of a few. It's this sadistic destruction of civilian infrastructure that makes Israel's response disproportionate.
16. Destroy eastern goooza transfer arub to western goooza.
Moshe ,   Usa   (04.09.11)
Precede this by dropping written notices to eastern gooozans. Go in & block all water & electricity to eastern goooza. Then systematically, a little at a time disfigure each building until, over time it is completely uninhabitable. The arubs can move to western goooza or ejypt. Over time eastern gooozans can all be transferred. Set up a fence so they don't come back. The more they missile, the more Jews muscle. And the more land accedes to Israel. And may they never come return. Moshe
17. To: No. 14
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (04.09.11)
How "proportionate" is 110,000 dead civilians in Afghanistan, Iraq and Waziristan to the number of NATO casualties? Calories allocated to civilians in Gaza? Oh, if only! According to the World Health Organization, the most pervasive medical problem in Gaza is OBESITY. Your anti-Semitism and hatred of Israel is so pervasive, it blinds you to the truth and to reality. You ascribe absolutely no blame to the terrorist rabble that runs Gaza -- why is that? Do you condone their caching weapons in schools, hospitals and mosques -- thus turning those schools, hospitals and mosques into legitimate military targets? Do you really think that Israel -- a sovereign state with an affirmative duty to protect and defend its citizens -- should simply absorb all terrorists attacks? Do you find it perfectly acceptable for terrorists in Gaza to fire at Israel from densely populated areas, despite the fact that the unpopulated areas of Gaza are actually CLOSER to Israel? You are an ignorant fool, consumed by hatred for the Jewish people; that is all you are. Just another anti-Semitic ranter; we know all about your kind. Hope you choke on your hatred -- sooner or later, you will; Israel and the Jews only get stronger as you grow increasingly apopleptic. There's an aneurism in your future, sailor boy!
18. How convinient ,...
split ,   US   (04.09.11)
To compare a local skirmishes between occupier's regular army and resistance fighters mostly shepards with Kalashikov with World War II ,... The rules of engagement have changed since then in case you happen to miss it.
19. #13 and #14
Naor ,   Haifa   (04.09.11)
13 - i think its pretty obvious that the author is clearly talking about the term as used in the international community 14 - what do you expect when hamas stores weapons and fires rockets from civilian-populated areas? and what about the human shields? yes, those hamas guys are so defenseless with their laser guided rockets and anti-tank missles? last time i checked being shot at = combat, sailor boy.
20. Hey #9
sabashimon ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.09.11)
Being from Herzliya, your response is not surprising in the least. I'll be looking forward to your response when rockets start falling where you live.
21. Finally..
RJK ,   CANADA   (04.09.11)
we r confronted with a talkback based upon intelligent reason. How any organization(particularly one such as the UN can suggest something so ludicrous as proportionate response is absolutely, unequivically DENSE)and in particular one that preaches to us how "fair" it is to all nations of the world, is totally disingenuous, at least. And they do it with straight faces!! They really truly believe they are the purveyors of common sense. They have been locked up amongst themselves for so long, listening only to their own murmerings and sharing with each other how intensely intelligent they are that they have lost all sense of common sense. It doesn't exist in their world. They have cocooned themselves off from common folk and in so doing have caused a total hybrid, void of common knowledge, living in a self-made world of make believe. Where, they have only themselves upon which they reflect their machinations, agreeing completely with each other to the total detriment of those entities which they decide don't conform with their interests. Israel provides a perfect candidate. She is trying to survive in a malstrom of hate and anger at her very existence. When she is bombarded daily with a variety of objects producing indiscriminate shrapnel, she is told she must only respond in a proportionate manner. Should she dare heed such advice, the death and destruction she would visit upon her darling neighbors would be much amplified compared to her exisiting methodology. But, to listen to her more learned detractors, this would be the better option. When one looks with a clear and unobstructed view at reality....it isn't at all difficult in concluding who is functioning in the more "proportional" manner. It most assuredly isn't Israels stated enemies. But they did say,"WE DIDN'T KNOW WE WERE TARGETTING A SCHOOL BUS". How proportional. How reassuring!!
22. #18 split/schizo/wes
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL   (04.09.11)
I don't believe that even the likes of you would call it a "skirmish" if you had the guts to be in the middle of it AK47- in my view is better than the M-16, heavier round, greater impact But what the hell would you know, you're too much of a coward to leave home to find out You're just a blowhard letting go of your frustrations for never having amounted to anything
23. #14 rabid seamongrel
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL   (04.09.11)
Who in the hell ever said that war supposed to be "proportionate", name him or them ? Here I am all these thinking that war is Hell The idea in war is to kill more of the other guy than they can kill of you, Any idiot knows that, I m surprised you don't Gazan’s have more than enough to eat, UNWRA has been feeding them for years, from published photos, they're fatter than your head They have an overabundance of food, in fact so much; they're exporting it to Europe New Mega Mall & Luxury Hotel, yeah, they're starving, while Gold shops can't keep up with all the business Tell me, if you're pretending to be so all fired concerned, why is your cowardly carcass still in Florida ? A wee bit of information for you wee brain It's estimated that it takes about 60,000 rifle rounds to take out one enemy soldier, and that does mean taking him to lunch One thing I’ve noticed, those that are making the most noise are also doing it from a very safe distance.. You’re just a windbag or should I say scumbag ?
24. Obviously clueless as to the meaning of 'war'
Jeff, Ex-Marine ,   San Diego, US   (04.09.11)
What we are witnessing in Gaza is the art of stuffing one's jockstrap. An assault by the world's 4th most powerful army against people armed with muskets cannot be defined as a 'war'. To even compare both sides in terms of military prowess is laughable. Israel has reduced the Gaza Strip, home to 1.5 million Palestinian refugees, to a laboratory (or 'entity') for testing its latest and greatest in must-have weaponry. Palestinians are no longer viewed as humans. They are 'terror cells' that must be eliminated using 'surgical' 'precision' strikes. I find it amusing how Israeli 'soldiers' like this one deploy medical terminology when referring to Palestinians. The human factor is completely removed and replaced by something akin to cancer. They and others also like to whinge about the so called 'rockets' that are 'raining' down on Israeli cities and towns but are completely oblivious as to the sheer terror they've inflicted on the Palestinians. And I do mean terror. Nothing justifies the attack on the school bus. Nothing. But please, let's have some perspective. I urge the author to reflect on the meaning of conflict resolution. The IDF is very much responsible for perpetuating this 'war' and I think he knows it.
25. #13 Doug - Rochester
BEN JABO ,   ISRA EL   (04.09.11)
If you're pretending to quote "International Law" it also says that it's forbidden to fire rockets & target civilians centers, as Hamas does BTW- Wiki is a lousy source, anyone, even you, can go in and amend, add or delete the so-called information in it, read their discalimer Now, who in the hell do you think stands there counting the bullets so they can reply with an equal of amount of return fire, what do you think it is, a tennis game ? Cast Lead, well you better, in your infinite wisdom, tell Hamas to stop hiding their fighters in the midst of the civilian population, which by the way, the brag about doing Fahti Hammad made a video, it's on You tube, look and learn I seem to recall that on 9/11, Arabs attacked the USA, all hell broke loose after that, we went after Iraq & Afghanistan And for some reason or others, we got involved in Libya I rather feel sorry for you Doug, it must be difficult being a nerd
26. #13: your numbers are wrong
Johhny Test ,   Sri Lanka   (04.09.11)
A top Hamas official belatedly admitted in Al-Ahram that Hamas lost 600-700 fighters in Cast Lead. If the total number of Palestinains killed was about 1200-1300, then some 50%-60% of the casualites were not civilians. Any civilian deaths are horrible, but it's clear Israel does not bomb indiscriminately.
27. Jeff, what if rockets started falling on SD from Tijuana?
Joe Frazier   (04.09.11)
What would you do then? Dismiss the rockets as firecrackers? Ahd if one of these firecrackers kills someone, should there not be punishment? What about the illegal smuggling of firecrackers? Is that not under the jurisdiction of the ATF? Would they let it go on undeterred? Ur a putz
28. Can someone explain?
Geoff ,   London (UK)   (04.09.11)
Can someone tell me why, if you are attacked, you should respond proportionately? I would have thought that the intelligent thing to do is to respond effectively and that might or might not be proportionate. Also, what are you supposed to do if you respond proportionately and that proportionate response doesn't work?
29. It's immoral to send IDF without intent for total victory..
Chaim ,   Israel   (04.09.11)
The use "disproportionate force" has no place in war. In fact, it has no place even in boxing or wrestling matches. Imagine a boxing match in which a boxer is only allowed to his their opponent as hard as the blow they received. LUDICROUS. Thanks heavens the WW II Allies had no concerns about using "disproportionate force" to pound the Germans and Japanese to unconditional surrender. If they did, Jews would all be lampshades and what is left of the world would all speak German. It is immoral to send the IDF anywhere unless we're determined to win. To do whatever it takes to achieve total victory.
30. awesome piece.
Golan ,   Modiin   (04.09.11)
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