Opinion
Leftists, Arabs and Chinaman
Hanoch Daum
Published: 22.04.11, 15:47
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38 Talkbacks for this article
1. The Left abandons its critical intelligence
Shalom Freedman ,   Jerusalem Israel   (04.22.11)
The key point of this piece explains much. It is that the Left wholly accepts whatever 'lokshim' the Palestinians spin to them. They have no critical intelligence when the Palestinians tell them the stories they wish to make their impression with. It is actually a daunting combination. The Palestinians always think of what they wish to get by the telling. Truth is not a value for them. The Leftists always automatically accept whatever the Palestinians say. So there is no reality- check whatsover and so the propaganda work of the Palestinians is done for them by Leftist Jews.
2. It's not a murderous Islamic sub-culture...
RL ,   USA   (04.22.11)
it's a murderous Islamic culture.
3. Putting aside the illusions of youth.
Steve   (04.22.11)
In my high minded youth I endeavored to respect the Palestinian people and hope for an equitable and sensible solution to the "Palestinian Question". As I grew older, more informed, more educated, and with a more astute worldview, I found it increasingly difficult to support the Palestinians, for reasons moral, historical, and practical. Their narrative is fallacious, their tactics deplorable, their arrogance intractable. I truly regret finding it impossible at this juncture to care a whit about their violent and immoral society. As long as they choose violence over negotiation, lies over truth, they can wallow in their squalor and myths.
4. Yaron
Michael Pielet ,   Boca, usa   (04.22.11)
Yaron and her friends are guilty of two things the delegitimization of the right of the Jewish people to have a state. Second, the legitimization of the arab right to slaughter Jewish children, men and women.
5. I will make a bet
Chaya ,   Tel Aviv   (04.22.11)
I will make a bet that the mother of the terrorist cursed Raya Yaron after she left her home....
6. NO HOPE FOR RAYA YARON
LAWRENCE ,   SAFED ISRAEL   (04.22.11)
She is too stupid for redemption ,a bit like that stupid italian bastard who befriended the "poor palestinians " and was strangled to death by his good buddies for his troubles.
7.  Hanoch, u have abandoned ALL logic here
PZ   (04.22.11)
And one certainly need not be a supporter of Machsom Watch to see it. Under what logical standard could it POSSIBLY be irrelevant whether the picture was taken before or after Yaron knew whom her sons were?? Have you no basic human decency, Hanoch?? HAVE YOU NO SHAME? Illogical guilt-by-association-and-innuendo are the tools of populist bullies, not lovers of democracy. This is how it starts, Hanoch -- do not become this! To state what should be absolutely obvious but apparently not: OF COURSE it is unfair to judge Yaron as if she knew whom Awad's sons were! As a hypothetical along the same lines, let us assume there is a photograph of a close friend of yours hugging Yigal Amir or Baruch Goldstein -- would you not insist on the centrality of determining whether the photo was taken BEFORE or AFTER Amir or Goldstein were known to have committed their crimes? Of course you would insist this; basic fairness and logic DEMANDS it. Another example: if Avigdor Lieberman proves to be a criminal, do your past defenses of him implicate you in his crimes? Of course not. You defended him before the full scope of such actions were known. The fairness I demand here is not a special treatment for anyone, it is simply the most basic standard for discourse in any civil society. This may not seem super important to you now, but it is. It is one of the most important things of all.
8. Shortly before one of the Fogel's family butchers
tanya ,   tel aviv israel   (04.22.11)
was arrested, activists from several left wing organizations paid a visit of solidarity to his house and discribed it as "pogrom, as primitive and brutal revenge, aimed at putting fear in residents hearts", Arutz Sheva reported..
9. # 7.......
Dana Rothschild ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (04.22.11)
you maybe could be correct, if this woman would visit Fogel family first and offered them her condolences... but she and her friends did not do it... not in the first week after the murder and not till today.... visit the houses of Palestinians, knowing or not, is for these people ok.... crying "pogrom" is fantastic... but to visit surviving children and parents of the murdedred family Fogel is not on their agenda.... to be a Jew is a way o life... they are not Jews.....
10. How can they spy upon our children,
jason white ,   afula, israel   (04.22.11)
the soldiers at the roadblocks. They are protecting us from murderous terrorists.Why do they care more about the palis than they do of their own people? Or perhaps we are not their fellow countrymen? They should be arrested and lose their citizenship. They should be tried for aiding terrorism. I do not care that some palis are held up for hours before entering my country. I do not want my fellow Israelis to be killed or maimed by terrorists.Nor do I want our soldiers to be spied upon by the enemy.
11. to #7 and #9
elzeide ,   Bs. Aires, Argentina   (04.22.11)
If you actually read the article, you will find why it's fair to criticize her. This is sad, but it's the true. The left forgot any kind of reality check. And that is not new. They did the same when Moscow or Stalin gave the orders. Never think, just obey. This is the reason. Additionally Dana Rothschild (number 9) added another powerful new argument.
12. Excellent revealing article
BJL ,   usa   (04.22.11)
There is something about the arab islamist mind set that is truly pathological. They also think the mossad flew the planes on 9/11. It is the story of Jacob and Esau, 2011. Esau is trying to get his birthright back by whatever narrative he can.
13. #8, you are wrong on all counts
Marco ,   Spain   (04.22.11)
1. There were already rumors well known to Yaron that a member of the family is suspected of murder. 2. This is a well known family of terrorists therefore it is not such an improbable assumption that the murderer could have come from amongst them. 3. Many other terrorists came out of this village in the past. 4. Yaron didn't wait for the end of the IDF investigation, but she automatically assumes that all Arabs are innocent and should not be bothered. These are the points that Hanoch makes and you miss. With your hugging Amir example, there is no moral equivalency because prior to him being indicted there was no such evidence, his past political activity was not the same thing as Awarta village Arab terrorist murderers. Bringing up Lieberman who has been investigated for over a decade with no indictments it is reasonable to raise doubts about the validity of such an investigation, and even if he will be indicted it is a far cry from Arab murderers, you are making an absolute laughing stock of yourself.
14. Hello, kettle? This is pot. You're black.
Michael Steiner ,   Bahrain   (04.22.11)
Yes, the smolim often jump the gun without having solid information at their disposal. Sometimes without caring whether they have such information. Sometimes even willfully IGNORING such information. But you and your ilk are the other side of the coin. To you there is no such thing as an innocent Palestinian. Ever. They're all guilty, of one thing or another. The closest a Palestinian might come to being seen as a decent human being would be one who would say: "O.K., I will pack my bags and take my family out of the West Bank to live in Jordan. Oh, and I require no compensation for my property, which I donate to the nearest settlement because 'god' gave you this land so it's yours anyway." Anything else, and a Palestinian--any Palestinian--is fair game to you. It doesn't matter what their education, political views, occupation, activism, sex, age, etc. may be.
15. daum is missing some perspective
alexi   (04.22.11)
its not just about facts and history. About 10 years ago, I met an ex idf soldier foreign born and resident of another country who gave me his views. They boiled down to you cannot kill an idea, that you have to accomodate, that like olmert(whose daughter was in machsom watch) you have to sit and talk and learn how to love your enemy; there is also an abhorrence of violence and the idea that jews would use violence in the idf form is repugnant to them. There is some fear and cowardice as well. Short of placing all of these protesters in aushwitz camps as the US GIs opened them up, you cannot change the thinking. And shimon peres, livni, olmert and beilin, burg, oz, grossman, sternhall all belong to this group. Its too bad. They have blinders on it to history. They wouldsays talk to hitler, maybe you'll change his mind. They are to be pitie it also relates to not having self respect as a country, like mea karta that runs to the arabs for permission because they don't believe in the state. israel has a number of misfits that will die off and over the time the country will mature. Israel-you are doing well-keep going.
16. Good story, but please don't call Chinese people "Chinamen"!
Scott ,   USA   (04.22.11)
17. #3
Avi ,   New York   (04.22.11)
So based on your experience how would you fight the same ignorance you had when you were young, today? What could have changed your mind then as opposed to going through 25-50% of your life before realizing the falicy you used to believe in?
18. ''Chinaman'' ?????? LOL
(04.23.11)
you do know that ''chinaman'' is an offensive term, right?
19. We don't know
Jerrold Cohen ,   Seal Beach, USA   (04.23.11)
We still don't know if a Thai worker who worked for the family didn't do the killing due to not getting paid. To blame this on an "Islamic subculture" is warmongering.
20. #13 is for #7, my bad
Marco ,   Spain   (04.23.11)
21. #16 and 18 - Chinaman refers to a quote in the article ..
michael redbourn ,   Arad, Israel   (04.23.11)
"So who’s bombing Gaza then, the laborers asked. It’s the Chinese man, my friend replied. The Chinaman is bombing Gaza".
22. Very true article
Ofir ,   Tel Aviv   (04.23.11)
It's very hard to understand the wrong and suicidical acts and opinion of people like Raya Yaron.
23. How can such disinformed people dare even have an opinion
rachel ,   usa   (04.23.11)
Do they really read anything? How stupid can this Raya Yaron be?
24. #14 don't make us laugh , arabs are better off in israel tha
rachel ,   usa   (04.23.11)
than anywhere else in the middle east .....i guess you don't read much news lately!!!
25. Islam is sub-culture. Always was, right from it's inception.
Joe   (04.23.11)
26. The world understands but does not care
Zev ,   Israel   (04.23.11)
27. to 26
(04.23.11)
no ,,but ,,they care without understand
28. The other israel newspaper must change the name: " Gazaa
ROSENVALD ,   BRASIL   (04.23.11)
The other israel newspaper must change the name, for " Gazaaretz"
29. #19, given Itamar doesn't have any thai workers
Danny   (04.24.11)
I think we can be pretty sure it wasn't committed by one.
30. #14, yeap lept to assumptions
Danny   (04.24.11)
just because Palestinians have done this a number of times before and just because items stolen were found in the village and just because there is DNA evidence and just because the tracks led back to the village and just because the murderers openly and proudly said they murdered the Fogels people are assuming they are not innocent. Shame on them for not keeping an open mind!
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