Israel buys Dolphin submarine
Shimon Shiffer
Published: 05.05.11, 12:31
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31 Talkbacks for this article
1. When will Netanyahu stop listening to Barak?
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, USA   (05.05.11)
Barak has a long history of making the wrong decision. Once he wanted *no* submarines, now he wants another one at any price, even if it means the IDF can't afford other systems, including surface naval vessels, that Israel clearly needs. But I guess Netanyahu still can't stand up to his former commander.
2. Is it a yellow submarine?
Talula ,   Israel   (05.05.11)
3. Good move!
Tor Gnon ,   Njamena, Chad   (05.05.11)
Get as many sophisticated hardware as you can afford. QUALITY FIRST, (AND QUANTITY TOO IF NEED BE.)
4. Rules to live by
Gideon Reader ,   USA   (05.05.11)
You never can be too thin, or too rich. You can never, NEVER have too many submarines capable of delivering nukes. Subs don't care if the weather sucks or if there are holes in the runway, or if the BeeGee's (Bad Guys-Not the Gibb Brothers) are howling outside and creating a mess of traffic. They primly, competently wait for the order to press the trigger. Expensive? Yep. But a totally intelligent expense.
5. How nice they bought that dolphin a sub!
Goren   (05.05.11)
Orao. ,   Srbia.   (05.05.11)
7. Chris Rettenmoser (swell lad) is going to love this.
Noodles ,   Coney Island   (05.05.11)
8. subs are a good investment but we need for surface ships
zionist forever   (05.05.11)
Israel has one of the smallest possibly least well equipped out of all the countries in the region operating modern navies because traditionally they get a tiny share of the defense budget bulk of it to the land and air forces. Turkey, Egypt, Iran, Saudi Arabia. In terms of surface ships Israel is no match for them. They have better more modern boats and more of them. The only area where Israel is a navel power is with its submarine fleet. Apart from Turkey non of the others come close. Turkey has 10-15 of the same class as the Dolphins. Egypt wants new subs but all it has right now is 2-3 Soviet Romeo Class So 6 subs gives Israel a real advantage which can help make up for the fact they are all stronger in terms of surface ships. Submarines unlike any other boat Israel has can travel to places like Iran and stay submerged spying, preparing a second strike if it was ever considered needed. The more subs the more rotations we can have so these things will earn their keep. Whilst its good we have a larger submarine fleet we still need to do buy new surface ships. The most modern Israel has is the SAAR 5 which it has 3 of and each around 20 years old. The navy needs its fair share of the budget so it can get the hardware it needs but we can at least thank Barak for getting us the subs.
9. #6 and #1
David N. ,   Haifa, Israel   (05.05.11)
Swedish submarines are indeed superior pieces of engineering in the best Swedish traditon. But it would be hard to argue between the best German and the best Swedish subs. Both are extraordinarily well-designed, and well-built. And for thse who think the sub was NOT a good idea, I beg to differ. They are a bargain compared to maintaining an armoured division. Flexible, mission-adaptable platforms capable of operating near-in or blue-water. Not to mention long range missile capability. They literally make Israel strategically much larger than her tiny, crowded land mass would ever allow.
10. overkill?
toM ,   toronto, canada   (05.05.11)
the principle of deterrence is a reasonable reason to buy ONE sub, and just to make sure that the sneaky iranians don't exploit its downtime to attack, a second sub is probably wise. and 4 if you consider that the israeli navy operates in 2 seas. but the idea of nuking tehran many times over is just a little crazy. there is no reason to believe that if the mullahs don't fear a nuclear strike by one submarine, they will somehow be more afraid of two, or 100, or even the entire us navy. one can only hope that this order is cancellable, in the event of a regime change in iran, god willing!
11. Wrong action
Avi   (05.05.11)
We can buy thousands of submarines... In the end, if the Iranians (and probably Saudis, Egypts, Syrians, Hisbollah, and all the others) get nuclear weapons, we can go sailing with these submarines... They do not provide the security that we need. But anyway, Barak fails to see the real dangers....
12. 2
zionist forever   (05.05.11)
Dolphin submarines are based in Haifa and the yellow submarine is in Eilat.
13. we need to base some subs & planes abroad
zionist forever   (05.05.11)
With things like Iranian missiles that can hit Israel and terrorists now having rockets that can hit deep inside Israel maybe its time to start thinking about basing some of our military hardware abroad. Instead of keeping all our fighter jets in Israel keep some of the older ones in reserve elsewhere which can be called on in an emergency. If the air fields are destroyed etc they can be recalled. The only submarine base is in Haifa and soon we will be operating a fleet of six subs not just the three currently based there which mean more maintaininence etc. One base means that if there is ever an attack we could potentially loose all subs we have except the ones at sea. Remember Battleship Row at Pear Harbor, one attack so many ships destroyed or damaged because they were all lined up nice and neat in one place. A country like Greece would be ideal for this sort of thing. They are a friendly non muslim country with which the air force has held exercises in the past and they even let us play with their S-300 air defense system Iran wants. They operate the same class of subs as the Dolphins so we have access to the equipment we would need to maintain the subs. Greece also operates F16s so again its a bonus. This is what Barak should be trying to negotiate for now, much cheaper than a submarine and very useful.
14. No "discount", first subs were SCUD compensation by Thyssen!
Dr. L. Brnd ,   San Diego, USA   (05.05.11)
Try to remember that the initial deliveries of 209-type submarines to Israel were not "discounted" by Germany due to any commitment to Israel's security. They were provided as compensation for the illegal involvement of the manufacturer, Thyssen, in supplying missile technology turbo-pump rocket motors for Saddam Hussein's SCUDs, enabling them to reach Israel in the first Gulf war. So Thyssen has no need to recover its earlier "discounts" by jacking up the price of the follow-on submarines that Israel needs to complete its fleet. This is especially true since Germany is the largest single trade and technology partner for Iran and its long-range missile programs. Its natural that Germany would like to "forget" these facts, but Israeli newspapers should not!
15. Submarines Are The Way To Go!!!
Edward ,   savannah, USA   (05.05.11)
#9 gave some excellent reasons for the purchase of these subs. If one thinks that 6 subs are "overkill" against Iran, the other subs can be used against Syria, Turkey, Lebanon, Iraq, Saudi Arabia, ANY Arab country that has a coastline, and there's a lot of them, so 6 subs are a reasonable purchase. Surface ships can be taken out too easily with the high speed Russian/Chinese StS missles that they have now so the subs are the best strategic option. Barak and Olmert just "might" have done something right for a change, as hard as that is to fanthom!!! If you screw up long enough, it's possible to get something RIGHT, even if by accident!!!
16. Of surface ships and Swedish subs
Raymond in DC ,   Washington, USA   (05.05.11)
I'm glad I'm not the only one to recognize Israel's need for more surface ships. But after committing $1 billion for the sub, there's no money left for them. And, as some have pointed out, there's only one not-so-secret base in Haifa. Should Egypt, now growing closer to Iran, close the canal to the passage of Israel's sub, the only way to the Persian Gulf is by going around Africa. Surface ships can at least be based in Eilat. I defer to others on the relative merits of German vs. Swedish subs, but would the latter, given their hostility to Israel, even broach selling them? Or would they take the orders then withhold delivery, as France did with the Mirage fighters and surface ships, the latter ultimately secreted out of Cherbourg?
17. No such thing as overkill
Mark ,   USA   (05.05.11)
The more the merrier! Israel should possess enough subs with nukes to make a veritable desert of the countries and the sick leaders that fervently believe in destroying the Jewish state. And, though these leaders would welcome death it should be clear to them that all they knew on earth will be vaporized.
18. surface ships
David ,   America   (05.05.11)
What Isra'el really needs are two or three aircraft carrier fleets so they can have airpower in areas off the coast of Iran, or other, when needed. Now they must fly over hostile land masses. Maybe Bibi should be replace by Donald Trump. He could buy a fleet or two out of his pocket change and then he can be dumped. LOL.
19. Yeah Noodles....and I hope for a very stiff
Chris Rettenmoser ,   Bayerisch Gmain Germ   (05.05.11)
20. Swedish Submarines?
Gideon Reader ,   USA   (05.05.11)
Why not the absolute unquestioned best. Paraguayan. Their Submarine force is the ultimate naval force and has defended Paraguay's coastal seas for generations. Plus, they have portholes that can be opened for fresh air. And don't forget the Commando Force Three (the number of participants) of Lichtenstein.
21. Submarines are welcome
Anadelfos ,   Athens Greece   (05.05.11)
You can apply for submarine and air force bases at Greece and Cyprus. The greek island of Crete is located quite near Israel and has more than 3 airfields.The Ionian and Aegean islands have plenty of suitable places, which can be turned to safe submarine bases. The greek navy experience is quite remarkable in this section. In exchange Israel could provide support and joint advanced training between Hel Ha Avir and Hellenic Air Force. Any kind of such cooperation would be mutualy beneficial.The positive political approach of two goverments, can facilitate this procedure, as hostile surrounding is more than visible nowadays. Shalom
22. Re:#13's exparte basing
Gideon Reader ,   USA   (05.05.11)
Treating your suggestion as serious I herein rebut,... 1-Outrageously expensive staffing and site maintainance costs. 2-A physical and intelligence security nightmare of the ultimate order. 3-A political non-starter. 3-No element of such an idea is workable or possible. Dependence upon Greece (or another similar locale is NOT rational) Haifa 2011 is NOT Pearl 1941. The current enemy is not Japan, militarily or intellectually.
23. Eeny miny mo, where did the Dolphin go?
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL   (05.05.11)
It's deep in the water, hidden by stealth technology Just think of the Cruise missiles that were fired at Libya from far out to sea
24. 18
birdi ,   israel   (05.05.11)
no way, trump is not a jew. you keep him.
25. To #23 Except,.........
Gideon Reader ,   USA   (05.06.11)
I suggest the new sub be named after a famous fictional Dane, made up by an equally famous English scribbler. The Israel submarine: "Hamlet". To Nuke. Or not to Nuke. That is the question. Ahhh, F--k it. Nuke!
26. #16
Sealift67 ,   Northern California   (05.06.11)
was not mirage fighters withheld. degaulle caved in to arab and oil pressure and banned further military shipments. the plans for the mirage were later secreted to yisrael by a heroic one through suise.(the moribund kefir jet resulted) from cherbourg came three gunboats by way of a mossad owned dummy corp in norway, crossing the medit. with guile.
27. 25
zionist forever   (05.06.11)
How about naming it Nakba Its going to be a real catastrophe for the guy on the receiving end if Israel had to launch a nuke from this sub.
28. to# 21
KO   (05.06.11)
Greece is a full member of the nato world and therefore has all the necessary training and equipment. they have no need for Israel!
29. To No 28
Anadelfos ,   Athens Greece   (05.06.11)
What I suggest is not a matter of need, but mutual gain.Israel has more air superiority experience, while Greece has more naval experience due to the nature of her soil.They also share the fact of been outnumbered, by those who intent to annihilate them. Bulgaria and Cyprus belong to the same category, by means of numbers. Whoever else feels the same, is more than welcome to join.The only motive is the will to survive.
30. #28 ko
BEN JABO ,   ISRAEL   (05.06.11)
Greece has no recent combat experience, Israel has had too much They do have one mutual problem, it's Turkey and the Muslim nutjobs in Iran
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