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Yishai reinstates nationality in ID cards
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 21.06.11, 00:28
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1. The other way round
Amihai ,   Yesha   (06.21.11)
For more than centuries jews have always been defined by halacha. Please, reform and conservative, stop trying to impose your opinion on everyone. To Yizhar Hess : No wonder that according to you "the majority of the jewish people" agree with you. Ahem. Maybe because ONLY according to you a great part of them are jewish ? "fundamentalist haredi minority" Thanks, but I'm neither haredi nor fundamentalist. Like most of the dati leumiim/modern orthodox. And we are pretty mainstream, especially here in Israel where reform is almost innexistant and fundamentalist in its own way.
2. son of convert
steve ,   boston, usa   (06.21.11)
As the son of a converter mother I understand where Shas is coming from on this issue. Halacha is halacha and if you want a Jewish state there needs to be Jewish law- sorry. Conservative and Reform conversions are not kosher...you can not make pig kosher by logical argument. If however these are jews whose conversions are kosher or are jews by birth who attend a conservative/masorti, or reform shul then let them alone; plenty of haredim frequent hookers.
3. Put "Reform or Conservative" on IDs
EZ ,   USA   (06.21.11)
If the reform and conservatives are so proud of their movements then they won't shy away from having the words "Reform-Jewish" or "Conservative-Jewish" on their IDs. Who cares? The Catholic Church doesn't recognize someone as catholic unless they've gone through catechism and were confirmed: is anyone mad at them? Christians need to be baptized, Muslims need to go through a program: in the same way, for thousands of years we Jews had to go through a certain process in order to be called "Jewish". It's completely obnoxious for someone NOT to go through the rigors of becoming a Jew through historically established methods and expect to be called a Jew. The truth is, a reform Jew is just that: a reform Jew. Same for conservatives. Orthodox Jews don't need to be categorized by anything but the word "Jew" because they went the distance, made the commitment and chose to be a card carrying member of the Jewish people rather than a counter-movement to those people. You can't have your cake and eat it unless it's yours or it's been given to you. I never understood the argument on this point. No reform or conservative Jewish convert has a leg to stand on with this argument. As for having a Jewish mother but practicing reform or conservative, you're a Jew through and through and are accepted as one, period. No need to list your persuation. It's that simple. And if you lie and get caught be prepared to be stripped of your citizenship and booted from Israel, legally.
4. A house divided cannot stand.
Naor ,   USA   (06.21.11)
Yishai and the dictatorial Rabbinate are playing silly games. There is no reason to try and alienate the Reform and Conservative movements as they are doing. As it is, we are a small people with plentiful enemies. There is no dire need for the nationality section, just drop it for the good of everyone. Am Israel needs to remain strong and united.
5. Reform Jews: Let's Make A Deal
Armchair General ,   Wisconsin, USA   (06.21.11)
Ask incumbent chief Richard Jacobs to step aside; rebuke the 400 "rabbis" who signed the newspaper letter backing George Soros and attacking Glenn Beck; do not extend tikkun olam to those who would murder or dispossess Israeli Jews; distance yourself from the stealth poison of J Street. Then, and only then, should "Jewish" be stamped down as your nationality.
6. Eli Yishayatolla
Bob Dylan ,   Brooklyn   (06.21.11)
Netanyahu better get his house in order fast as the present now Will later be past The order is Rapidly fadin' And the first one now (Bibi) Will later be last For the times they are a-changin'
7. ID CARDS
DANIEL ,   HAMILTON, CANADA   (06.21.11)
Yishai SHOULD MAYBE TAKE A LOOK WHERE THE MONEY COMES FROM MOSTLY USA AND CANADA, MOST OF THE JEWS OVER HERE ARE CONSERVITE AND REFORM JEWS, YOU DON'T LIKE US DON'T TAKE ARE MONEY, WE CAN MAKE A LOT OF FUSS WITH OUR GOVERNMENTS OVER STUPID IDEALS LIKE THIS, TO US A JEW IS A JEW NO MATTER HOW HE BECOMES ONE,
8. ENOUGH ALREADY.
yehoshua ,   usa   (06.21.11)
We in America are faced with an unprecedented project: It’s no longer how to survive a Jewish identity fixed in the crosshairs but how to hold onto Jewish identity in our amnesic Western encampment. The greatest task our children (unprejudiced of party lines) will inherit is simply not to let go of Jewish peoplehood. So by the inhale one withdraws, nationalizes, and messianizes with acute precision as the other, by the exhale, reforms, reconstructs, renews, and secularizes so devoutly. All the long while of Jewish peoplehood have we ever stopped quarreling among ourselves long enough to consider the debt each generation confers to the next? It is an ever more broken Israel (in its broadest sense) and an ever more breaking world. Indeed we must be moving away from Sinai, the marker of ancestral coalescence, for the ultimate goal of a healthy Judaism exceeds Jewish religious party lines; the goal is humanistic redemption. Therefore, our dire religious mission of tikkun needs to start from within.
9. Why?
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (06.21.11)
Why is this so important? Why have religion on any ID card for any reason? His reasoning is bogus and is still illegal
10. Nationality
Neal ,   Minneapolis, USA   (06.21.11)
And we wonder why most Israelis identify themselves as secular? Actually, "nationality" in English refers to the nation of which one is a citizen. "Jewish" specifies a religious identification, at least on this side of the Atlantic. And religion doesn't appear on U.S. identification documents. One can be an Israeli citizen without being Jewish, so what's the purpose of specifying religion on an identity document? In this galutink's opinion, religion doesn'' belong on a legal identity document except for purposes of knowing how to treat a body or for discrimination. Of course, there are so many hundreds of millions of Jews in the world that Yishai & Co. and afford to disenfranchise tens of thousands.
11. Yishai must be a "super Jew"!
Norman ,   Great Neck, NY   (06.21.11)
What a pathetic excuse for a human being. Somehow I get the real sense where schmucks like him are heading. Perhaps he will one day write a book....I know a good title...."My Struggle". In the 1930's the Germans did not know about DNA. I wonder if Yishai's DNA would show him to be a Jew or just a descendant of some Polish Catholic?
12. Doesn't he have anything more important to do
Ricky ,   Yavne   (06.21.11)
and to spend our money on?
13. Ah great...
Danny   (06.21.11)
Big fuss over a topic that no one cares about but which gives greater power to Shas.
14. Nationality: Israel. Religion: Private !
Noa   (06.21.11)
15. When will he reinstate the 2nd Wannsee conference?
Susya Bar Dror ,   IL   (06.21.11)
What a bigot shmuxk. He is a criminal and must be sued for dangerous racism.
16. another law to waste taxpayers' money on legal fees
Yoni ,   Bnei Brak   (06.21.11)
Clearly the law will be challenged. Clearly the Supreme Court will rule against it, again. Clearly the govt will waste taxpayers' money on the legal battle --money, Mr. Yishai that could be spent helping those poverty stricken Holocaust survivors
17. @ #3
j ,   jerusalem   (06.21.11)
well said and a great point.
18. to #3
heifait ,   Haifa   (06.21.11)
what about "secular Jew" in TZ???
19. back to medieval times...
Michal ,   Poland   (06.21.11)
standards of democratic world of XXI century return the freedom of national identification (before the state) solely to the citizen. A situation where the state (not the rabbinate but the state!) tells the citizen "you are not Jew" because the Orthodox rabbi claims so, is back to medieval times. Please, Israelis, shake off these backward regulations, it's a shame ... we are in XXI century ...
20. Why does he fuss around with such nonsense?
Talula ,   Israel   (06.21.11)
If he'd focus more on pressing issues, like proper funding for firefighters - he'd gain a modicum of respect from Israelis. It's NEVER a good idea to have religious ministers - they are only concerned with sticking their noses into ridiculous and stupid issues while ignoring the more important. What an easy job he must have – but then again, it's easier to kick up a stink about a stupid status on an ID card, than to actually use his brain for the better good of the country. Nothing will happen if there's no nationality in ID cards - but incorrect funding where it counts, lost our country many lives during the Carmel fire. Why is he even still in the Knesset? Kick the Idiot out already.
21. @steve #2 - which halakha??
yehoshua ,   usa   (06.21.11)
don't do the jewish tradition such a tremendous disservice. judaism is big enough to accommodate many halakhic outcomes. don't forget the words of Reb Tevye: Why should I break my head about the outside world? Let the outside world break its own head. Well put! He is right. As the Good Book says, “If you spit in the air, it lands in your face.” Nonsense. You can’t close your eyes to what's happening in the world. He is right. He’s right and he's right? They can’t both be right. You know, you are also right.
22. Again the Yanks are telling us how to run our country!
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (06.21.11)
8 out of 210 TB"s sit in the USA, don't serve in the IDF, don't suffer the hardships of Arab terror but meddle in the running of OUR country. No doubt they voted for Obama! OK, as from the date of Issue of the new ID Document non Halachaic Jews will be exempted from serving in tn Army! Fair is fair. They are not good enough to be called "Jewish" so why should they defend the country of the Jewish People? The solution to the shortage of manpower is Compulsory Army Service for Halachaic Jews instead of leaching off the State and scratching their you know whats in the Yeshiva! All Yishai is trying to do is to make the people of Israel forget that he was responsible for the deaths of 42 Israelis in the Carmel Fire, some of whom were not Jews but were serving their country!
23. Correction 8 out of 20 TB's! Sorry!
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (06.21.11)
24. On the hara-dim i.d. cards for nationality
jason white ,   afula, israel   (06.21.11)
put down "other". They are not part of the Jewish people.And they are not part of the nation of Israel.They should not be granted full citizenship and lose the right to vote, except for the few that served in the I.D.F. The ministry of the interior should not be in their hands, nor should any other ministry.
25. Absurd situation
Sagi   (06.21.11)
whereby well in advance of 80% of the population in Israel, and the same for world Jewry, is non Haredi, but the country is being run by a bunch of crackpots. This has got to stop.
26. #22 Right behind you on that! Annoying Yanks!
Talula ,   Israel   (06.21.11)
These yanks constantly stick their noses into our business - it's oh so very easy to write a talkback while your sons are not putting their lives on the line for Israel. They make me sick. They need to butt out for be blocked from being able to comment about domestic issues - any issue, come to think of it. If you don't live in a country, you have no business offering any kind of advice or commenting on current issues.
27. Why dont these talk backers
David ,   Haifa, Israel   (06.21.11)
who are safe and sound in NY make aliyah before telling us what to do.
28. #26: Thanks Talula! #24: Yep, tell Bibi!
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (06.21.11)
The trouble is the Yanks are so busy telling others how to live they don't clean up their own house! Jason, the only PM who had the guts to throw the Haredim out of the government was Rabin and look what the religious right did to him! They should have DOS on their ID's!
29. What's the matter
David ,   Haifa, IL   (06.21.11)
My bro' is an immigrant from India and is not jewish, he was raised as a Hindu, with a strong monotheistic background beacause his ancestors were Sikhs. He never has any trouble with his Thudat Zehut or with finding a job as a math genius and Embedded-Systems-Expert. He goes to Beit Knesset and started going to orthodox Tora-Classes were he's welcomed. People on the street usually think he's Yaman or Bedouin. No cases of discrimination yet. What is this discussion about?
30. Re #1 Don't be such a hypocrite!
Andrew Brehm   (06.21.11)
You talk about the importance of halacha and then continue your post as if it was universally accepted that "halachic" means "approved by rabbis of a certain sect". It doesn't. Jews according to halacha are children of Jewish mothers and those who convert. Halacha describes a method of conversion, it does not preclude Reform or Conservative rabbis. Judaism split into different strains long after halacha was codified. If "Orthodox" Jews want nothing to do with the other Jews, Orthodox Jews should leave and found a new religion and people. Reform and Conservative are not trying to impose their opinion on everyone, but the Orthodox sure are. Israel was founded by secular Jews. Religious fundamentalism should have no place in the state. And guess what, that means YOU.
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