Opinion
The real battle for Israel
Yigal Walt
Published: 28.06.11, 00:01
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1. I knew that for a long time. Israel is in big trouble
(06.28.11)
The problem is that the religious population is totally against the state of Israel as was established - a democratic state ruled by law. They want a theocracy. The same as in Iran - only of a different god. Civil war is inevitable. Or, another possiblity is that the religious, due to their much higher birth rate, will take Israel by democratic means only to destroy Israel's democracy. What a great future a head of us :(
2. Israel Jewish state is run by Bolsheviks of Communist Russia
C.C.   (06.28.11)
where Freedom of Speech is ONLY for Leftists, destroyers of the country. Another proof that Israel is not a Democracy and NEVER WAS!
3. Secular Israelis are becoming more intolerant by the day
C.C.   (06.28.11)
These self-hating Jews are the biggest anti-Semites in the world and the main cause for anti-Semitism around the world. Not only are they violent but they stage riots together with Israel's enemies. Secular Israelis are destroyers of Israel and the rest of the world. Non-Jews hate the fact that Jews want to be like them which is another reason for anti-Semitism around the world. It's the Secular Jews who are to be blamed for all that.
4. You don't worship Rabbis & G-d but you do worship
(06.28.11)
Herzl, BenGurion, Rabin and all other G-dless leaders.
5. Secular Israelis would not imagine the possibility
Self-hating Jewish ,   LIAR!   (06.28.11)
"Secular Israelis would not imagine the possibility of staging riots in the capital because of an “unjust arrest.” Have you forgotten the riots Secular Israelis stages for Arabs? Remember the riots of PieceNow, Betzelem and other sick organizations for Arabs.
6. Zero Research was done writing this article...
G ,   eli   (06.28.11)
First, there is no Religious right conspiracy to take over the country. In opossed the the secular lefts demographic fears that the religious are having 6 kids while seculars 2. The chants regarding the Torah is not to say Lior is the Torah. It is WHY he was arrested. He was arrested for THOUGHTs based on Torah interpretation on war which was published as a book. The only battle that will occur is the pathetic athiest who claim to be elitists in this country. They travel to Europe more than Jerusalem and everytime they come back they see more religious people. This scares them. So they feel their backs are agaianst the wall and this is how articles like this are written. Sloppy, without research, and off the top of his head.
7. The anti-Jewish State
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Taspuah, Efraim   (06.28.11)
B"H The hundreds of "religious rightist" protestors who blocked the entrance to Jerusalem, burned tires in the capital’s streets and raided the Supreme Court, next time will burn the flags of the State, usurping Jewish symbolism, The so called Jewish State is a myth, it is currently hijacked and run by anti-Jewish elements.
8. The point is valid, but the hypocricy is sickening
Daniel ,   Formerly Israel   (06.28.11)
A clash between the datim (religious) and the secular left is trully brewing, and has been for decades. As a secular rightist, I have had occasion to observe it in as dispationate a manner as possible, for I do not believe that either extreme should prevail. The idea that a conflict is imminent has been obvious for decades, and the idea that it may be initated by the datim siding with their rabbis against the secular state was never beyond the realm of possibility. But the possibility of the seculars driven by their liberal enlightenment agenda turning on the datim has also been equally imaginable to those who cared to look at the situation with anything like objectivity, and if the signs of aggression from the latter side are only now beggining to emerge, these same signs from the former have been present for at least seventeen years. That is why notions of this conflict were only whipered in te past, while the leftist elite was the only agrresive party and did nto want to undermine their ligitimacy. Now that the reiligious right is also aggitated, the media has meraculously begun to speak of it openly. How odd? where was this opennes when lecturers they universities called on the IDF to storm the settlements with tanks?, or break their arms?, or simply demolish their homes. Why did no one bemoan the growing chasm among the Jews when Oslo was signed and the settlers were left to their own devices. Where was the outcry when rocks and bullets started flying in Judea, and the army didn't show up to defend them. How about when they tore down Gush Katif, to the last brick, and dragged the datim from their homes. What about Homesh or Amona, and the beating of the protesters just out of spite? What about when they took away the settlers guns, and left them with nothing but stones to protect themselves? I heard no protests from the "jewish unity" crowd when overwhelmingly dati units under the orders of an unfriendly general staff, were sent to the north to fight in the war, while back home crowds of secular leftists gathered and screamed for their houses to be torn down? One may say these were all decisions of a legitimate secular-democratic government (although largely driven by the unelected and virtuallly autocratic high court), but one cannot say that they were not hostile to the religious right, nor that the rightists took any action against the state that would provoke such hostility. I do not say that the Datim are right to resort to violence against the seculars. In fact I frimly believe that the two sides can and should resolve their issues in a civilized manner. But I will say that to claim that the datim initiated this conflict is turnespeak worthy of Ahmadenijaind himself.
9. Two state solution
BH ,   Iowa   (06.28.11)
Commonwealth of a Jewish and democratic State of Israel in the current armistice lines and the Kingdom of Judea in Judea and Samaria, with a shared Jerusalem as capitol of both.
10. #4
Naor ,   USA   (06.28.11)
That's because Herzl, BenGurion, Rabin all the other so called "G-dless" leaders were the actual ones who did something. They are the ones who built and ran the state of Israel, not your Rabbis or G-d.
11. i welcome a civil war bring it on
Haim ,   Israel   (06.28.11)
As a confirmed secular i welcome a civil war in Israel as it seems we have no choice. The biggest threat to our freedom and democracy is the religious right wing. I will not see the country i served for to be destroyed by right wing religious fanatics who force religion on non beliving seculars. Cant wait for the day when civil war finally breaks out.
12. Israel is a Jewish state
Israel Zwick ,   nyc   (06.28.11)
Israel was established to be a state where Jews who practice their religion can feel comfortable doing so. So Jews who travel or migrate to Israel enjoy being able to observe Shabbos, Kashruth, and dress codes in a welcoming environment. This is an anathema to the secular assimilated Jews. They don't want a state with a Jewish identity. They want a Belgium or Norway with a warm climate and nice beaches. That's not what Israel is supposed to be.
13. Battle for Israel
Nili   (06.28.11)
Whoever wrote this article must be sniffing glue. The rabbi was arrested for his "opinions". Meanwhile the "seculars" go each week to stand with our enemies and attack IDF soldiers while calling for the end of Israel. It is the ignorance of people such as this writer--who, like the toad in the pot that does not know the water is coming to a boil--that brings shame and destruction on us all.
14. Great article
Maureen ,   London, UK   (06.28.11)
A very refreshing article Yigal. I visited Israel for the first time last year and was absolutely shocked to see what settlers are getting up to in the West Bank - the racist taunting and harassment of Palestinians, the vandalism and violence etc. I now follow this situation fairly carefully and all I can say is that if the Israeli authorities continue to back these racist nutcases, Israel will end up all the more isolated and will indeed become seen as the new South Africa. The extremists need to be stopped in their tracks - as soon as possible.
15. excellent article
pete ,   us   (06.28.11)
What we are watching is the virtual Talibanization of Israel..Iisrael has done a great job keeping it under wraps but it becomes more obvious by the day
16. An empty piece of propagandistic
Robert Haymond ,   Israel/Canada   (06.28.11)
written by a desperate author and published in a news outlet which has no conception of the greatness of the Israeli state. No facts were put together to fill out this piece of dribble. It was hardly provocative it was thoughtless. And one more item: The heart and soul of Israel now lies in the Yishuveem east of the Green Line, Jews with a purpose, traditional Orthodox, the men with knitted kippahs and the women whose hair is tied in kerchiefs, all ready and able to defend our country much like our ancient Jewish warriors, the heart and soul of Zionism.
17. ultra religious
real vision ,   usa   (06.28.11)
It is the ultra religious that are the intolerant of the rest of society and are tearing the country apart. The torah teaches tolerance but the ultra religious have no tolerance these days.
18. A warning to the religious right
Avramele   (06.28.11)
You have alienated half of the country who are secular and quietly many kippot wearing Jews are weary of your messianism. Diaspora Jewry are sick of your Hatreds and medievalism and your Republican friends will goad you on but cut your foreign aid. This is your Massada and Bar Kosiba moments combined. Enjoy it and let's hope there is less tragic ending to this movie.
19. Why is Shinui long gone?
Kyle ,   Southpark, CO, USA   (06.28.11)
Because the seculars have the attention span of a flea.
20. How right you are Eli G.!! #6
Israeli 2   (06.28.11)
21. The issue is that he did not do anything
David ,   Los Angeles USA   (06.28.11)
The Rabbi was arrested for what an other Rabbi wrote that he approved of. is free speech a crime?
22. Fanaticism
Nick ,   NYC, USA   (06.28.11)
"Indeed, the Jewish religion that for so long symbolized wisdom and humanism is increasingly sinking into darkness, crude intolerance and boorish fanaticism." Amen, brother. I'll stick with my bright, tolerant and moderate Reformed homies. Fanatics of any religion are all the same.
23. There is NO such a thing as Jewish secular
David ,   On this planet   (06.28.11)
You either are Jewish or you are secular. Don't call Israel a Jewish state unless you respect and practice Jewish traditions , and so far Israel does not support the Jewish religion
24. Civil War is inevitable?
Avigdor ,   Syracuse, NY   (06.28.11)
First there is no conspiracy by the right to run the Country any more than there was one by the left. The right believes that a Torah based Country is the only reason for Israel's existence. Whatever reason...a secular Country is useless and pointless. If the country is secular then move to Uganda laready! If it is Torah based it is because Israel is the land given to MOT by G-d. Bibi was elected basically on a right wing platform and still advocates the final 2 state solution...why? Becasue he has to be secular. Moshe Feiglin has the correct idea...A Torah based Country with freedoms...freedoms for Jews of any kind...but we will be allowed to go to the Temple Mount and to the Matriarchs and Patriarchs. Jews will decide....Jews will run the IDF to protect Israel. If this is to theocratic for you...why would want to live in Israel? I am sure they will buy you out...just like the Arabs. Meir Kahane had it right and nothing has changed. Kahane Tzadak!
25. I agree with the article, here's why:
R ,   Israel   (06.28.11)
The problem is that both far right and far left consider themselves above the law. The only ones bound by the law these days are the middle and working class middle-of-the-road citizens. The rich and famous use lawyers and protectizia to get around it. The far left professors call for violence against settlers and continue to teach at BGU. The far right clash with police on a daily basis. The haredim do whatever they want. I have to obey the law and I'm taxed into oblivion to pay for the police and the courts who support all these extremists by not doing enough to stop them. I'm sick of them all!!!
26. Israel has lost the war
Gabriel ,   Tel Aviv   (06.28.11)
We have given the religious everything and unlike other countries, we not only allow them to teach whatever 8th century mythology they want to, we even fund it! What will ultimately happen (and is happening more and more) is that secular Israelis will leave. We simply don't want to live in any theocracy. Of course, that means also that the economy will be shattered, the idea of Israel as a democracy will be destroyed (as will the mass support from America) and Israel will become a poor country filled with religious fanatics. We were building something special, but no politician wanted to touch the religious and so we are losing it. It is very sad.
27. Any sane person should be ver-very scared by religion:
tom ,   tel aviv   (06.28.11)
the thought of being forced to accept and resign oneself to the "rules" of a delusional part of the human psyche is frightening indeed. The secular attitude is not about violently dragging the pious "scholars" out of their shuls and forcing them to deny their creed. Problem with all the folks that have Seen the Light is that they insist on shining their pitiful candles right into our collective eyes ...and we better LOOK at it !!
28. Coming upheaval
Daniel Freed ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (06.28.11)
When Leftest, Gays or Arabs protest it is simply a cry about injustice; however when religious kids protest it is a bad sign, it is everything evil. How pathetic that the Jerusalem Post has lost (if it ever had) any sense of journalism for bigotry.
29. A house divided against itself
Pinhas Bayit ,   Bet HaKerem   (06.28.11)
We are already that - we are divided and those like C.C. symbolise precisely how deeply. This kind of twisted logic, with accusations about lefty and Bolshevik, come from the mouths of religious fanatics like Baruch Marzel, lunatics like the Kahanes, murderers like Baruch Goldstein and inciters to murder like this so-called Rabbi Lior. These individuals have perverted what both our state and our faith once were and they bring shame on us all, including the vast majority of modern datiim, for whom the antics of those individuals and the words of the so-called rabbi are deeply deeply embarrassing. The Mustard Men are leading us further into the abyss and like the writer I pray to Elokainu that there will be divine intervention to silence them before we all end up on their Metzada.
30. "riot"? - it doesnt help to exaggerate
Lemmings Hotline ,   sd usa   (06.28.11)
"Riot" is a term reserved for destruction of personal property including destruction of cars, looting of businesses, violence like beatings, etc. Holding up traffic, and burning tires is a "demonstration" not a riot. It doesnt help your point to "stir up the pot" and to make up hatred that as of yet is not out of control.
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