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Sitting in Israel, seeing Norway
Mia Habib
Published: 25.07.11, 00:03
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34 Talkbacks for this article
1. Murdoch Empire calls Norway antisemitic!
NadePaulKuciGravMcKi ,   the states   (07.25.11)
Reuters picture now worth a thousand words . Pro Palestinian Rally at Norway Youth Camp the Day Before Massacre . Jonas Gahr Støre: Okkupasjonen må opphøre, muren må rives og det må skje nå . Norway is ready to recognize Palestinian State
2. I just dont understand something...
Tamar   (07.25.11)
How can ONE MAN and one man only plan and execute such a terror attack? Am I the only one who's raising this question? Also, if he was against the Muslims in his country, why did he kill only non-ethnic Norwegians? All this crazy story is so weird...
3. Left wing hogwash
Eliyahu Konn ,   Powell, OH USA   (07.25.11)
Labeling this murderer as right wing is so much BS. I don't want to understand how people enjoy this creation of conflict. Are the media outlets owned by the arms dealers?
4. oslo
jj ,   montreal canada   (07.25.11)
Just two days before the masacer at the camp, the youth wanted Norway to regonize the Palestinianstate as Abbas was welcomed there, and they also wanted the governement of Norway to boycott Israel. Is this the Norway you want/
5. Right Wing Norwegian Christian Zionist Terrorist
Steve Benassi ,   Silver Bay, MN USA   (07.25.11)
...killing children of Left Wing Norwegians because...their parents support immigration of Muslims and multiculturalism.
6. An Excellent Analogy
solomon ,   bklyn   (07.25.11)
"Norway now finds itself dealing with the fact that the gunman can be crudely described as "one of us." Maybe that is how Israeli society felt after learning that Yitzhak Rabin was killed by a Jewish assassin." Excellent analogy. It says more in two sentences than the rest of your [very good] article.
7. ??
Beary White ,   Norway   (07.25.11)
The leftis dancer missed this point: What reasons does a killer need? Norwegian government has proudly informed they have removed neo-nazi's by totally taken away their possibilities for expression in media or the streets. Instead, anything not in line with the political leftist in Norway is choked and supressed, thereby creating single lunatic actions like this, who finds no other way of expressions. An excample, being pro-USA and pro-Israel is not political correct for the left-wingers in control in Norway, and should be silenced.
8. Israel took the high road by lowering her flag
Devorah   (07.25.11)
That shows class, and class never goes out of style. To the talkbackers from Norway, thank you for your insights.
9.  Norway is naive(or was?)
linda   (07.25.11)
I feel sorry for every person dying in terror or disaster. BUT Israeli blood (maybe even Jewish) is less important to many people in the free world and after reading and hearing every time that Israel is the bad guy and we are the blame for all bad things happening to us (and others)maybe??? we are less sypathetic when it happens to those who blame us day in day out??!! Is it ok? No, but it is a understandable reaction I think. We are human and sometimes we wish others to feel the same fear and pain maybe in hope that they understand us more!! I think when we see young children talking hate against Israel and not knowing the whole picture and learning only how bad Israel is and how good Palestinians are without teaching them history is a bad thing itself. I hear the lies about Israel, 5000 years of Jewish history is being raped by non muslim and muslims. It is not only about Palestinians and human rights for both, it is about slowly taking away Israels right to exist and teaching new hate agains Jews in general. But I know (hope I am wrong) that 50 years from now many Christians and pro-muslims will think back and see that many so called right wing activist were right. And that the freedom they fought for in WW2 was taking away by their own naive doing and thinking.
10. #2: No, I asked the same question!
David ,   Karmiel, Israel   (07.25.11)
What makes it even more absurd is that there is compulsory military service in Norway but these leftists, that is was they are and claim to be, don't seem to think that fighting for your survival was an option! One man against 560 and he succeed in killing 80 plus! One comment about why he killed these young people is to try an change the political future of Norway away from its pro Arab, pro Palestinian and pro Islam policy. He seems to have felt that the people on this camp were the future left wing politicians of Norway. His victims were Norwegians and I have not seen or heard any report that they were non-ethnic Norwegians. It is an horrible and a heinous crime but the Europeans are completely underestimating the rise of Islam in Europe and the rise of the anti-Islam movements which, in many cases, are linked to both Neo-Nazi organizations. As an Israeli I cannot really sympathize with people who back those trying to destroy Israel although there is no way that his actions can be condoned or justified. Terrorism is terrorism no matter what form it takes.
11. Tragically, they'll understand our terror victims in Israel.
robert renders ,   belgium   (07.25.11)
12. Our love goes out to the people of Norway. It doesn't matter
Ilana ,   Israel   (07.25.11)
if half of th country is boycotting us or not. A monstrous thing has happen to people.
13. one person can cause such senseless destruction..
Netali ,   Israel   (07.25.11)
I pray for the family and freinds of these kids. and must of the israelis I know reacted very differently from what you describe....
14. Disgusting act of violence
Tomer j ,   Haifa, Israel   (07.25.11)
yes, it's true Norway doesn't have much simpathy for israel and yes they are boycotting us just like the nazis did in 1933 (i mean orgenizing camps and events and all that stuff around the boycott are just like in1933) but still. every israeli I know said it's a deplorable act and and felt sad for the friends and family of the people who died for their views.
15. well in Al- Jazira there were much "better" reactions
James ,   UK   (07.25.11)
they blamed it on the jws (and even the mossad sharks) and called for europe to attack israel. you can all watch the talkbacks on their website.
16. to 7
(07.25.11)
i like your post specialy it is from norway i like your expresion about the left --dancer -- yes it is but when a dancer can not dance well he says -- the ground is twisted - he is the left or the silenced one ..sure evry one fear the goverment laws but if it is a dancer he can do it without fear ..dance do not need violence do not need fear
17. to #2
Beary White ,   Norway   (07.25.11)
He made a bomb to remove the leftist government, and then he went to the island where the leftist parties have their annually brainwash youth-camp to kill their children. News reports before the killings shows leftist youth with signs "boycot Israel" , Surely his hate had no limit.to do what he believed in.
18. Extremely unbalanced article
Tahl   (07.25.11)
Dear Maya, had you written a few sentences critical of what was going on in this political camp, and what is generally happening in Norway in recent decades, with regards to this country's sentiments to Israel and the Jews - perhaps I could have treated it seriously, and mustered some empathy here. Had you said something like, "it is true that in Norway there are extreme anti-Israeli and antisemitic sentiments, and it is true that these youngsters were in a camp where they were soaked in extreme-leftist garbage against Israel - but it was still not their fault, since they've been brainwashed with this anti-Israel poison from a young, impressionable age, and they certainly did not deserve to die for it" - then you would have won my respect and support. But you neglected to say such thing. You gave zero criticism to Norway, and instead chose to urge us to feel really sad, and also to demonize and the entire European right wing - as if their warnings against the Islamisation of Europe are completely unmerited and plain fear-mongering, and as if they are directly responsible for this terrorist attack. Of course this is ludicrous. As for your comparison between the Oslo and the Dolphinarium attacks - it is not entirely valid, but out of respect to the fallen victims I will refrain from expanding on it. Of course, the attack in Oslo is a horrible tragedy performed by a sick psychopath. But the underlying message from this article is extremely unbalanced.
19. Know this, people of Israel
befriend ,   Norway   (07.25.11)
No matter how insane this madmans acts were ... and how sick and twisted his motivations and beliefs were... We must always stand together and never let hatred, violence and intolerance (against people of other religions, culture, looks and beliefs) win any ground ...any place in this world. Also - as a norwegian - and a christian - I just wanted to tell the people of Israel and jews around the world... There are many people here that loves Israel and the jewish people ... but unfortunately we just don't have the adequate political influence now. May God bless you all!
20. I cannot comprehend the crime, my prayers are with you all!
David Rosene ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (07.25.11)
it just shows that all we need in this world is more LOVE and RESPECT for eatch other. I send my LOVE and RESPECT to the families of the camp children. even if their views are different than mine.
21. RE: Extremely unbalanced article
Asle Fjeldstad ,   Stavanger, Norway   (07.25.11)
You mention anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic. In my opinion it is OK, and quite widespread in Norway, to be anti-Israeli, i.e. against some of the politics of the Israeli government. If you meant anti-Israeli as in anti the Israeli people then I agree it is a sentiment that is a gross generalization and wrong. In my opinion the people of Norway who criticize Israel's politics have no problem with separating the government from the people of Israel. As for being anti-Semitical you are way of the mark. Being against the Jews as a people and a religious community is reprehensible and makes no sense to other than nazis/idiots, and is, in my experience, virtually unknown in Norwegian discourse. It must be possible to criticise the politics on the state of Israel without being labelled as an anti-Semite, just as it is possible to criticise Saudi-Arabia without hating Muslims.
22. #18
Line Singer ,   Aarhus DK/Gedera IL   (07.25.11)
What you and many other Israelis do not comprehend is that this was NOT an extreme left anti-Israel camp. This was a completely notmal left wing camp for young members of the Norwegian Labour Party. Nothing extreme left about it. There is a reason why Mia (Not Maya!) did not write the things you ask her to, and that is that is not the general way things are in Norway. All countries have anti-Israel and anti-semitic sentiments to some degree, there's no reason to make it more than it is.
23. No 21 - Asle
Emma ,   London   (07.25.11)
The problem with those that criticise and demonise Israel is that they have no knowledge of the context and history of the conflict. They only know what they are fed by Muslim propagandists and do not get a balanced view. It is ok to criticise the policies of Israel where justified, it is not ok to demonise and delegitimise Israel when you are only exposed to one side of the argument. As to Number 5, are serious? How can you blame this on Israel but then I suppose hatefilled nutters like you will always find a way to blame Israel for everything.
24. terms
(07.25.11)
As i push that 'talk back' button, it becomes clear under the terms that a lot of posts should be removed. Let it be very clear that in order to stand up for human rights, one doesn't need to be 'anti' to something else. So in order for other human beings to have access to fresh drinking water, one doesn't need to be against jews. The holy land guys, the holy land, well, i am deffinetly not a spokesman for god but the message is pretty clear here. "the children of god still act like children, they still need to be tought how to share". So the slogan "if you want peace, prepare for war" is very mideival. Here in Norway there is a tendency to treat humans equal. There you go, no need for a huge epic catastrophic climax. Just common sence. If you want peace, act like it.
25. No 24 redefine your terms
Emma ,   London   (07.25.11)
When I hear you speaking up for the rights of Israelis to live free from fear of having rockets fired at school buses and kindergartens, then maybe I will believe that you genuinely care about the human rights of everyone. Those that only care about the human rights of one side are by definition anti the other side. You make your position plain that you believe that only Israel is to blame for the lack of peace. How about the so-called Palestinians agreeing to Israel's right to exist secure borders, agreeing to stop terrorist attacks. Now that would make common sense.
26. #22
Tahl   (07.25.11)
So... If taking a completely one-sided approach to a dispute, and supporting a boycott of a country based on impressions from extremely slanted news coverage and Pallywood fairytales, is "completely normal" and "nothing extreme left about it" in your eyes - then I would hate to see what IS considered "extreme left" in your eyes... Maybe the shooting at the Oslo synagogue by a Norwegian Muslim? (who was acquitted of committing a hate-crime, surprise surprise) There is absolutely nothing wrong with my demands of Mia, for a little more balance, and to acknowledge what was going on in that camp, and Norway in general. Sorry about confusing the name, Mia and not Maya - that's the only thing I agree with you. Your further reasoning that "all countries have anti-Israel and anti-semitic sentiments to some degree, there's no reason to make it more than it is" - is even sillier. So, if everybody's antisemitic and anti-Israel, then Norway's antisemitism and anti-Israel sentiments do not even warrant an acknowledgment in this article? Here's a little reminder: the whole damn camp served up unadulterated anti-Israel poison by the gallons, and you call it irrelevant? This was truly the most absurd comment I've read here this week.
27. #21 Asle
Tahl   (07.25.11)
"It must be possible to criticise the politics on the state of Israel without being labelled as an anti-Semite" I have heard this argument a thousand times already, but I have no problem repeating my response again. While certainly not every criticism of Israel is anti-semitic (we are not perfect and no angels, and some criticism we do deserve), one cannot completely cast aside the antisemitic sentiments in a country, as a contributing element to its anti-Israeli stance. It is no coincidence that Norway, which tops the charts in European antisemitism (just a tad above Sweden, Spain and Britain), also provides the most slanted, biased anti-Israel news coverage about the Israeli-Palestinian conflct. As I said to #22, there is nothing normal or balanced in the leading party of the government, holding a camp where Israel is villified so much, and a boycott is called against it, as if we were Apartheid South Africa. Everyone with a little brain in his head, knows we are not. We are not asking you to support or love us, just try and report the news neutrally, and not be 100% behind the Palestinians all the time. I believe Emma in #23 completes my point well. Anyway, you were focusing not on my main point. My main point was that for Mia's article to gain real sympathy and credibility, much more balance was needed - in the form of acknowledging the problematic activities taking place in the island.
28. No 22 By definition left wing is anti-Israel
Michelle ,   UK   (07.25.11)
29. Norway
Herman ,   Toronto Canada   (07.25.11)
Excellent reaction
30. Islamaphobic?
Hannah ,   Manchester   (07.25.11)
"Dangerous ideas turn into dangerous actions when they meet the wrong people". Yet for years we have been told in the west by the left wing that Islamic terrorism and fascism is jstified, it is to be understood rather than condemned. Is it any wonder that there is a backlash? You talk about Islamaphobia. Are not those of us who live in Europe and have to deal daily with rise of Islamic fundamentalism, not entitled to fear it? It is not being Islamphobic, but genuinely frightened about what the future holds with the rise radical Islam.
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