Opinion
What to do with Turkey?
Yoshi Yehoshua and Moshe Ronen
Published: 05.09.11, 11:28
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61. If Israel wasn't so willing to please
Paul ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (09.05.11)
they should just wait until Erdogan drops dead, and after Turkey overthrows those wannabe-Islamic fascists who have visions of Ottoman Grandeur.
62. Express regret and offer some compensation
Ilan   (09.05.11)
Which is what Israel offered already and was refused. To capitulate to what Turkey has been demanding is not acceptable. There is no way that Israel can forgo an embargo of arms going into Gaza, nor is there any benefit in lying and calling our actions illegal. It is notable that the only arguments in favor of Israel endangering and debasing itself that the author can offer are related to the consequences of Turkey's irrational response. We should apologize because Turkey's honor forbids it of admitting to any wrong. That is a lousy argument and a poor prescription for sound relations with Turkey in the future.
63. If you give a mouse a cookie...
Janet ,   Jerusalem   (09.05.11)
he will want other things as well...
64. Israel cannot talk about people's rights
Jon ,   Baltimore US   (09.05.11)
as long as it guarantees the rights of only one ethnic group and takes measures to insure that they will always form the overwhelming majority in their state.
65. This story has already been written,
John Prophet   (09.05.11)
the conclusion is already known.
66. To 59 Marco
Batu ,   Istanbul, Turkey   (09.05.11)
Marco watch your mouth man, You do not need to prove how rubbish comments you can write here.Welcome to criticize but no insulting should be tolerated
67. #53 uraz
Albrecht Klein ,   Germany   (09.05.11)
Those who got killed were not "unarmed civilians", but "armed terrorists". You should try at least to get the facts right. And, by the way, what do you think will happen, if you attack Turkish soldiers with iron bars and knives?
68. Unlike Israel, Turkey is an illegal occupier
Garp ,   Toronto, Canada   (09.05.11)
For the books, the Turks are illegal occupiers of Northern Cyprus: ''...The Turkish Army maintains a large force in Northern Cyprus with its presence supported and approved by the local government, whereas the Republic of Cyprus and the international community regard it as an illegal occupation force with its presence denounced in several United Nations Security Council resolutions.[15]'' http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Cyprus. This is unlike Israel which occupies no Arab land, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2137924/posts.
69. Winston Churchill said ,,,
zooog ,   US   (09.05.11)
Appeasement is like feeding a crocodile hoping it will eat you last.
70. Turkey will not be appeased
Eytan Dayag ,   Brooklyn, NY   (09.05.11)
Erdogan and the AKP will not be appeased. It has been their goal from the start to end their strategic relationship with Israel. Were Israel to apologize for its troops defending themselves in this instance, another incident will be arranged. The Turks are our enemy as long as the AKP is in power.
71. turkey is not interested in being appeased
dante ,   uk   (09.05.11)
erdo, a petulant enfant, is outraged that he was unable to bluff Israel into an unwarranted apology. rather than approach relations with Israel in a mature way on the basis of mutual respect, erdo is determined to make matters worse. he just can't stand the embarrassment that his policies have brought him and his govt and he does not have the decency to take responsibility for his mistakes.
72. # 53 you are wrong
Anadelfos ,   Athens Greece   (09.05.11)
The ones who got killed were not unarmed. They were armed with sticks and knifes which they used agaist the Israeli soldiers. That is why the passengers of the rest ships had no casualties at all, as they were really unarmed. Even if the end of this story was sad the main responsibility belongs to Turks.
73. Oh,Dear,Sirs.Stop Digging.
Ian ,   Newcastle upon Tyne   (09.05.11)
"Many songs have been written about men apologizing to women." I sure hope that the authors of THIS opinion have got THEIR apology ready for the Turkish chauvinists. THREE CHEERS FOR ISRAEL!!!
74. To 20 Frau Anja
A ,   Belgium   (09.05.11)
I'll help Brian Cohen a bit on this. All the organizations are listed in Wikipedia. As you may notice, most of them are scientific and humanitarian organizations. As for aid, yes you are correct, Israel AND Egypt account for 1/3 of US aid payments. Now, who would YOU want for a friend? drink a beer and go back to sleep before you hurt your brains. Just one more question: which "emerging" nations are you referring to, because the only nations that seem to be "emerging" in the ME are radical islamic, suicidal, financially corrupt losers. Israel is a member of many agencies within the UN, including the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO), the Office of the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR), and the Food and Agriculture Organization (FAO). Israel also participates in other international organizations such as the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and the World Health Organization (WHO).[161] Within the UNESCO, Israel is a member in many international programmes and organizations. In the area of science Israel is an active member of the Man and the Biosphere Programme (MAB), the Intergovernmental Oceanographic Commission (IOC), the International Hydrological Programme (IHP), the International Centre for Synchrotron-Light for Experimental Science Applications in the Middle East (SESAME), and the International Geoscience Programme (IGCP). Other notable organizations Israel is an active member of include the Education For All movement, the European Centre for Higher Education (CEPES), the World Heritage Committee (WHC), the International Centre for the Study of the Preservation and Restoration of Cultural Property (ICCROM), and the International Council on Monuments and Sites (ICOMOS).[162] Relations are carried out through the Israeli National Commission for UNESCO.[163] Israel has joined the European Union's Framework Programmes for Research and Technological Development (FP) in 1994,[164] and is a member of the European Organization for Nuclear Research (CERN),[165] the European Molecular Biology Organization (EMBO) and the European Molecular Biology Laboratory (EMBL).[166] It is also a member of the Bank for International Settlement (BIS) since 2003.[167] On May 10, 2010, Israel was invited to join the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD).[168] Israel is a member of NATO's Mediterranean Dialogue forum.[169] Israel did sign the Chemical Weapons Convention, but did not ratify. It therefore remains one of only 7 countries which is not member of the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.
75. What to do with Turkey?
DOH   (09.05.11)
EAT IT
76. # 60 Too dumb
J.K. ,   Brooklyn USA   (09.05.11)
Idkak ! Are all Turks dumb like you ?.Israel did not send a ship with terrorists,to help the PKK,but your government did send a ship with terrorists aboard to help the Hamas terrorists in Hamastan,read the Palmar report.
77. Turkey`s plan C
Nora Tel Aviv   (09.05.11)
Erdogan dreams of the day Turkey will become the Big Brother of all the Mediterranean Arab countries tying them down with strategic military pacts against the "Zionist enemy".
78. kurds
viva ataturk... ,   occupied cypres   (09.06.11)
its true turk kill kurds like flys.
79. Our hope - A post- Erdogan Turkey
Shalom Freedman ,   Jerusalem Israel   (09.06.11)
Apology is self- defeating and will gain nothing. We will never have proper relations with an Erdogan - headed Turkey. We must weight carefully what counter- measures we take against Turkish hostility, while avoiding direct conflict with them. Our hope is a post- Ordogan Turkey though it seems the secular Westernizing forces in Turkey have been dealt a very major blow.
80. To#10
lidia ,   Rishon Lezion   (09.06.11)
I quite agree with you! Bravo!!
81. #79 so right
sarah ,   israel/istanbul   (09.06.11)
That is most Turkish peoples' dream too!!! The educated can't stand him not to mention the secular society. Some of my friends have even looked into getting green cards in order to flee. They have had enough. Everyone is worried for Turkey's future. Turkey is using Israel as a scapegoat in order to escape many problems that are facing their society - not enough schools to go around, poverty, the Kurdish question, Armenians, lack of transparency on every level - look at what happened to the Dogan group!!! My friends are even scared to talk politics in cafes or in public - that stuff is reserved for the home and trusted friends. When you pay for a passport or drivers' license, the money is given in cash - no credit cards or checks accepted. No one knows where the money goes. Erdogan has limited the powers of the military which in former times could and would overthrow a leader like himself. The military and police ranks have been infiltrated by AKP guys and other hardline islamists. No chance for the military to stage a coup. A few months back a bunch of the high ranking secular military men were forced to resign - I think they were trying to plot something. Erdogan has blackmailed other leaders of prominent secular political parties - namely Mr. Baykal whom they forced out of CHP by threatening to release a sort of sex tape of him. CHP was the parti that Ataturk founded. Trade union leaders are being routinely arrested and jailed and the state of the THY planes are dire. After the crash in 2009 where a THY plane split apart, my friend who is a head of Turkey's main civil aviation union told me that he wasn't surprised. The government holds a ruling 49% stake in the airline and most of the planes shouldn't even leave the ground. When I knew him, the head of Turkey's most prominent union for roads had been arrested and jailed over 230 times - and that was in 2009! The list goes on and on. Erdogan is paying for people to become religious. He buys them coal to heat their home, clothes and even some say houses as long as they stay religious. Areas that were bastions of the secular elite such as Nisantisi are now swarming with chador cladded women. (Maybe not swarming but there certainly are way more than before). Everytime I go back it seems to have gotten worse. I have traveled most of Turkey - been as far as northeast Trabzon, southeast Haran, Mardin, Gaziantep and all over the southwest part. The one thing that remains the same is the fact that while cities and people remain dirt poor, the mosques are always under construction or brand new and the AK Parti headquarters are state of the art and beautiful. All while the people are carrying huge carts on their back trying to amass plastic and garbage to sell for food. So people, please do not confuse the Turkish government with the people. The people are generous, helpful and very nice. The people I know want him gone but have lost hope. Just my two cents...
82. #81 sarah, israel/istanbul
Albrecht Klein ,   Germany   (09.06.11)
If most of the Turks are generous, helpful and very nice - why do they elect Recep Tayyip Erdogan and his AKP cronies?
83. What to do with Turkey?
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (09.06.11)
I will tell you. Start supporting the Kurds. That -- along with the turmoil along Turkey's border with Syria -- should keep the turkeys busy for some time to come. Let's hear the trash talk after a couple of months. What do you want to bet it will disappear completely, and the Turks will be on their knees, begging for mercy?
84. To: No. 25
Sarah B ,   U.S.A. / Israel   (09.06.11)
Get a grip. Israel took out nine terrorists who attacked Israeli soldiers who were merely enforcing a fully legal and internationally recognized embargo of the Gaza Strip. The simple fact of the matter is that Turkey -- as sustained by the Palmer Report -- aided and abetted terrorists whose sole purpose was to breach said fully legal and internationally recognized embargo. There certainly was no humanitarian aid aboard the MAVI MARMARA, despite that being the supposed purpose for its ill-fated venture. Turkey, simply put, got caught with its pants down. And Israel is not afraid of Turkey. You're big, but you're also extraordinarily stupid. Absolutely nothing to fear. Just the neighborhood bully, and Israel knows very well how to deal with bullies. So take your "national honour" and sell it to the Kurds. Or the Armenians. Or the Cypriots. Good luck with that.
85. Yoshi, ignorance about your neighbours
Mark ,   Israel   (09.06.11)
.... is appalling. Having grown in the country that share similar mentality, I can easily understand what Erogan is striving for: public humiliation of Israel in the eyes of Islamic world. Unlike you ignorantly believe, there's a price to pay for "humiliation": were Israel to apologize, Arabic and Muslim governments would have taken it as a sign of Israel's weakness. Meaning decreased - not increased - ability to survive in this region. When we withdrew from Lebanon, and then let go kidnapping of Israeli soldiers - we got Lebanon war. By humiliating itself - by the standards of the region we live in - Israel would have emboldened its enemies to new attacks. So thanks to Bibi for having good sense to avoid a stupid mistake of playing to the hands of raving enemy.
86. It's easy
Oleg ,   USA   (09.06.11)
All Israel has to do is - support Kurds! This nation is a truly one to be independant. Not so called 'palestenians' - who are just artificial Soviet Union creation.
87. Turkish tantrum
ploome ,   USA   (09.07.11)
Ignore it! Let Turkey work it out.
88. never appease bullies
Mike ,   London, UK   (09.09.11)
remember chamberlain - he will always be remembered as the man who appeased Hitler, and where would we all be now if thas had happened? It might appear out of context here, but it is not - never appease bullies and tyrants. Ronen is so right.
89. isreal apology
avi ,   uk   (09.15.11)
the turks love to bluster,they havent messed with greece ,only 15 million population they are not going to chance it with us
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