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Doomsday weapon: Israel’s submarines
Alex Fishman
Published: 10.09.11, 08:09
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1. God bless !!!.
Arn. ,   Sweden.   (09.10.11)
Yes the subs are the most effectfull waepons at sea. Swedeish subs in training togheter with the US navy has come upp as the Victor all the times. Arn.sweden.
2. yeah, yeah, 12th mahdi, blah blah
they don't care, nothing to deter what they seek....
3. Doomsday or Eschaton...
Alan White ,   Portland, Oregon   (09.10.11)
I am an evangelical christian living in Portland. I was in the US Sixth Fleet in the Mediterranean. I visited Israel and Turkey several times. I maneuvered with the Turkish Navy three times as well. Israel and Turkey should stay friends and Israel should apologize for whatever Israel did. We killed 5 Turkish Navy officers accidentally and apologized and had to pay for our stupid mistake. Israel can apologize as well. I must tell my Israeli friends that Turks will not fight like the Arab nations Israel is used to. When we exercised with the Turks I saw how skillful they are and fight extremely ferociously. You can't even compare the Israeli Navy to the Turkish Navy. Turks have the largest navy and the largest submarine fleet in the Mediterranean. East Mediterranean will be controlled by our Turkish allies. And our Israeli allies will have to learn to be grateful to what we have done for them for decades.
4. Alan Whites mistake
Garnet Obisolle ,   USA   (09.10.11)
Obviously, Mr White is a bit off on his assumptions. As for the Turkish Navy, simply put, would not last in real action two days against the Israeli military. Turkey fighting extremely ferociously??? They would indeed from Alan White's perspective, but from the Israeli perspective? I happen to know first hand, someone of Mr Whites stature would only say, "Why, I never would have believed Israel would wipe out the Turks that quickly." This is but guarantee that obviously Mr White hasn't too much of a clue about, no matter what he says. With due respect Mr White, but you're more than mistaken in your mistaken assumptions.
5. and the sixth sub is for bibi...
eporue ,   europe   (09.10.11)
so he can escape at air (private plane), land and sea... and leave his lemmings behind, to meet their own doomsday in israel... does the sixth sub have a double bed too, as the plane? for bibi and his slave bashing wife...
6. #3 What a fake
James ,   Netherlands   (09.10.11)
Dear Alan, If you were an evangelical christian, you would support Israel and stop talking this nonsense. Or else call yourself an apostate. Please, start reading your Bible. And do a little internet research (using reliable sources, please) on the motives of the flotilla sailors. Besides, the comparison you draw between the flotilla deaths and a friendly fire accident is totally ridiculous.
7. For the LAST TIME -- Ships have SAILORS, not soldiers!!!!
Scott ,   USA   (09.10.11)
And submarines belong to the NAVY!!!! Why are Israeli writers so stubborn on this point?
8. Mindless propaganda
Philos ,   Herzliya   (09.10.11)
I had to stop at "stayed submerged for a lengthy period of several weeks." What complete nonsense. The Dolphin Class is a diesel electric submarine meaning that the longest it can stay submerged is less than 3-weeks. When one compares that with a nuclear submarine that can stay submerged for 6-months Alex Fishman is just nothing but a blowhard
9. good idea, btw - keeping the sub position secret...
eporue ,   europe   (09.10.11) contrary to the iron dome position, which is published in the newspaper... ah... you only have TWO freaking iron dome anyway... and these you only have, because obama gave it to you FOR FREE !
10. #7 - yes, it is annoying
seadog1946 ,   Arthur Kill, NJ   (09.10.11)
but then, the article's author/editor have never served at sea.
11. This article provides a rare look into
seadog1946 ,   Arthur Kill, NJ   (09.10.11)
Israel's "Silent Service". I was disapointed by the lack of credit, to the German u-boat engineers and shipwrights who designed and constructed these exemplary vessels and to the German government that completely/partially financed them.
12. Philos, haven't you ever heard of snorkels?
Michael Davison ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (09.10.11)
The German navy invented them towards the end of WW II, and they have been in use ever since. Snorkels allow a submarine to recharge its batteries and replace its air supply while still submerged.
13. Alright some more nonsense from Fishman
Philos ,   Herzliya   (09.10.11)
1. In the movies the submarine commander is not receiving order mysteriously wrapped in a safe. He has received order to open the safe containing part of the launch codes for the nuclear weapons. To launch his missiles the submarine commander needs to receive the rest of the code from HQ. This is standard in all navies carrying nuclear weapons on board because the civilian government cannot leave decisions of nuclear attack to some two-bit submarine commander (in the greater scheme of things). So I'm very sure Israel has a similar system or we'd be hearing about it from the Americans. 2) Not docking at foreign ports in an electric diesel submarine would significantly limit its range and its period of operational ability. Unlike a nuclear submarine it must refuel and it must also be able to resurface (or at least go to snorkeling depth) in order to charge its batteries for submersion. None of these facts are secrets and are know submariner engineering since the German's built the U-boat. SO, that means for Israel to operate by Iran for a meaningful period of time our boats will have to refuel somewhere; probably Diego Garcia in the Indian Ocean where America has a huge and secret Naval base.
14. they are made in germany :)
ron ,   europe   (09.10.11)
15. mr. white
nva ,   jerusalem   (09.10.11)
1.) Do you read? We killed the 9 Turks in self defense because they were armed with knives, iron bars and clubs. They attempted to murder our soldiers who boarded with paintball guns. They SAID they were carrying humanitarian aid. The ship only contained armed men. You do not understand the difference between self defense and accidental friendly fire???? 2) What you America have done for us for decades is NOT something to be grateful for, it is something to be alarmed about. It is you that needs to be grateful for Israel. 3) The east Med will not be controlled by matter how badly they want to restore the Ottoman Empire.
16. Nr 3.
Arn. ,   Sweden.   (09.10.11)
So Christian I am Myself but according to me You write a lot of nonesense !. If you had the Counseal of HASHEM or The Lord Jesus Christ, you would now that Turkey is a Looser. Arn.Sweden.
17. Nr 13.
Arn. ,   Sweden.   (09.10.11)
!. Mere speculations. If Israel is wiped out with a Nuclear strike, do you think the Commander of the sub is to sit and wait for a Command from HQ that will never come ?. Dont you understand what this means - Doomsday weapon: Israel’s submarines Israel’s enemies must be made to understand that should they dare use any weapon of mass destruction, their own fate will be sealed. According to foreign reports, Israel’s Dolphin fleet plays a crucial role in the game of deterrence with its second strike capability. "Second strike capability". 2.You can dock att commercial ships at sea as well. Arn.Sweden.
18. Scott: Not in Hebrew.
Michael Davison ,   Ra'anana, Israel   (09.10.11)
In the IDF, the Navy is a branch of the IDF, just as the Air Force is. In the Hebrew language, "soldiers" are those serving in any branch, whether on land, sea or air. If you want to blame someone, blame the translator who translated this article from Hebrew to English.
19. A clandestine corner of defense
Yael Schlichting ,   Raubling - Germany   (09.10.11)
We must not be annoyed when the author of the article is only able to perform a "swing by" over the matter. On the one side, there is a need to depict Israels capabilities, not only to Israeli public, but also to the Turkish or Iranian. And of course, among these groups of sailors and soldiers "omerta" is the life assurance. I believe, this article has been written well in advance and of course has been approved by Israeli authorities. Its purpose is to show Israeli public, that their armed forces have the capability to pose an unacceptable threat to any enemy when it should become due. And of course it shows the same to a potential enemy. I remember the time of the cold war here in the middle of Europe. On the one side, the threat was unacceptable to me as a citizen, because both sides made sure, that they would transform us into fine dust. Nevertheless this balance of terror lead to a halt of hostile activities. It froze everything and both sides thought twenty times before they took any action. One example: A bomber, e.g. an F-111 would have gone on a mission to nuke an important facility in the former Soviet Union, it would have nuked the obstacles to clear its way to complete its missions. In the meantime central Europe would have been evaporated with megaton-nukes. These concepts were clear to the other side and was the key to preventing any side from having the idea to carry out a surprise attack and win. No, it was made sure, that there was no winner in this confrontation. Everybody with clear mind can figure out, that Turkey worries its partners in NATO very much. Turkey is not viewed as a reliable partner, as it always had its own agenda. Its pathological nationalism prevented Turkey from integrating into greater political frameworks like the EU. Turkey was important during the cold war and unfortunately it would have great value in a possible confrontation with Iran. Nevertheless, Turkey is doing everything to make clear to its "future former" partners, that they can only count on its unreliability.
20. #18 - there is no Hebrew word that translates
seadog1946 ,   Arthur Kill, NJ.   (09.10.11)
to seaman, sailor, airman, pilot?
21. #4 NATO man, NATO!
Peter ,   Hungary   (09.10.11)
There's one important thing among others why Turkey and Israel won't fight in the future. Turkey is a member of NATO as nearly the whole so called "Western World". And you know if a NATO member is attacked by a non-NATO member state, the whole NATO has to respond!
22. Some technical issues
Yael Schlichting ,   Raubling - Germany   (09.10.11)
The Dolphin-Class submarines have an enhanced time they can stay submerged, since they do not only rely on diesel-electric and battery power, only, but also have fuel-cells, which allow them to produce electricity over quite some time without starting the diesel-engine. As far as I know at least one of the three existing Dolphin submarines has this fuel-cells, because it was already built with them. The other two will be upgraded, soon. With the fuel-cells, the Dolphin-Class submarines are marking the benchmark in silence and being vibration-free and thy can also be propelled using fuel-cell electricity. The Dolphin-Class submarines have a range of 8.000 nm (14.800km) and can stay 3 weeks submerged without snorkeling and 12 weeks overall.
23. #20 - Yes there is
John ,   Israel   (09.10.11)
but every soldier on IDF is a *soldier*, no matter what his duty is.
24. Nothing then cheap military propaganda
Murat ,   Antalya   (09.10.11)
But the high sympathy for the deployment of nukes in any kind of confrontations proofs how many people in Israel are interested in killing civilians. But never forget that meanwhile you'll be using your so called "Doomsday Weapons" Turkey won't be sleeping. As far as India and Pakistan are believed beeing in possesion of nukes, why you keep insisting to rule out Turkey can also have plenty of those. In hope no escalation of this kind will take place. Even, war happens first. Peace will prevail war at the end.
25. To No. 17 Arn. Sweden
Philos ,   Herzliya   (09.10.11)
Of course Israel's submarines can't launch their missiles without all the codes from HQ just the same way American, British, Russian and French can't either. HQ is in a reinforced nuclear bunker so even in a nuclear attack it will survive. The reason this system of firing control developed was because of the too many "close calls" during the Cold War by American and Soviet submarine commanders who weren't able to make contact with their HQ's (technical problem with satellite or damage to sub communications the crew were unaware of). It'd be disastrous if a nuclear war started over such a minor technical issue. These firing controls are a well established part of any second-strike capability. It also demonstrates the imperative of civilian control over the military.
26. Israeli "Soldiers"
NYC Girl   (09.10.11)
Mu husband was on a submarine in Israel...but he used to say he was in the army, which means something different to an American. So it seemed as if "army" is a catch-all term for every branch of the Israeli military. But somebody pointed out here that it has more to do with the translation from Hebrew into that might explain it.
27. Wait a minute this powerfull secret fleet are just 3 Subs??
Neo ,   EU   (09.10.11)
"Navy is preparing to double Israel’s submarine fleet from three to six in the next five years"
28. RE to so called "eporue", #9.
Marek ,   Stockholm, Sweden   (09.10.11)
You really do HATE Israel, don't you?? So you have to invent your own lies...... To begin with, IDF/IAF NOW has THREE Rafael's Iron Dome batteries - the third one was just now revealed!! ALL THREE of them were to 100% financed by the Israeli taxpayers' money. Then US/Obama gave money (205 million USD) to produce in Israel another 4. The first of them will be operational by this year's end. The 3 others during 2012. And so will be TWO more, financed entirely by Israel, during year 2012. All in all it will be 9 of them, to begin with, by the end of year 2012!!
29. To Murat #24
Yosi   (09.10.11)
And the Turkish agreement with US to to harbor Jupiter Nukes inside Turkey is a proof of what? Constant Arab wars on Israel forced them to have nukes as a deterrence. When Saddam`s missiles were falling on Israel, not Turkey, Israel havent lifted a finger. And your Nato allies have also Nukes.
30. Thank you Germany.
Eli ,   Israel   (09.10.11)
I wish the German and American economy was stronger, Israel can use a few more Submarines and perhaps a few more battle ships. We are surrounded by people who want to finish Hitlers job. It is in everyones interest that American and German economy stay strong.
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