But this time I will sit at the same table - next to her on this issue!!!

"Judaism never espoused the need to distance from women." - Really? Have a look in the Shulchan Aruch (hardly an unheard-of source) in Even HaEzer 21:1: 'One must distance oneself from women very, very much'. Even if you believe that such laws do not apply today, to claim that 'Judaism' never required its followers to keep a distance between the genders is (perhaps wilfully) ignorant.

Jerusalem is a whole different world from Atlanta. What the author says is true for HERE.

“Yet I feel that we live in a crazy country. Everyone woos women but they are not given rights.” omg this is so true..i'm not talking about obvious "rights"...but women are expected to be beautiful (either to look at or to avert your eyes), confident and giving. Yet once a woman is over 40 she is treated like a has been...no longer relevant to society. She has to be tough and strong to survive...like Shulamit..whether one agrees or disagrees with her stand on issues. On this point, she is right on the money.

I agree completely with Shulamit and I hope many women will follow her path. Please understand that every opportunity given to haredi community has turned in to hell. They wanted to study and not work. Today we have about 20% of community milking the state. Do you know what does is mean by 20%????We will be bankrupted in few decades. Our whole divorce system is a mess. In only democratic country in middle east, woman can not marry or divorce as her right but becomes slave of her husband to grant her that right. Ask all indians, ethiopians and russians to go to get a marriage approval certificate from rabbanuth from north of Israel and Jerusalem and see what happens. They just say that we do not consider you people as Jewish and can not approve this marriage??? Most of the cemeteries has been turned in to a money extortion opportunities and in many cases grieving families has paid up till 30,000 shekels to get resting place for their loved one. Many have opened illegal parking fees in cemetery to collect more money from the family and friends coming to pay respect to the dear dead one. If woman has equal place then why she has to pay dowry when she gets married? Why there is a rules that a woman has to marry before she attempts her first university degree? Why haredi movements are trying to topple international rules and wants man to be allowed to be married to more than one woman? Forget about buses, in some places there are separate footpaths? footpaths??? See every haredi riots and imagine where is tora in these people? Where ever they went, they tried to force their way on life on others. Go and ask every secular neighborhood sharing border with haredi neighborhood. They get shower of stones and bottles on their cars when they pass from there. Ambulances get stoned? Sounds normal? Calling little girls _____ sounds normal? There is something seriously messed up in haredi community and they are turning into taliban. Each and everyone should stand against them before they turn this beautiful country into another Afghanistan.

Dear lady, you just made my day ! Thank you.

and hang my head low when I see these disgusting individuals. I am even more ashamed and hang my head even lower when I see their disgusting behaviour. They are a disgrace to our People and Nation. They bring shame on us all.

they might have even more convincing explanations why it is our right to be secluded from everything. BTW, there are great explanations for secular women too, why they earn 30% less money for the same work as a man, why jobs are given to a man when there is a women with the same qualification, etc etc. This is a global phenomena, it is true, but we have to guard what we love best, which is Judaism. Sh. Aloni is right and she is trying to protect Judaism from becoming absurd. This article should have been written by Rav Metzger!

We must fight Jewish secularization, which views religious as lesser human beings

Arthur C Clarke once said " it is a truism that almost any sect, cult or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the power to do so "

angels visited ibraham to tell that he will have a son / his wife sara was presented she slapped her sheek and said - iam old and infertile -- it was not becouse it is not her right to have a son but it is the physiology of a woman .. so i think in such a situation it depends on women but not to force them to be back but as a male if he went to the back of bus to be wit womn it will be a mistake it is so in the sociaty always men harrass the women not the opposit / i think old women is protected by physiology only if it is a revenge //at last i want to say that sara was more than happy to have ishiac and still it was a mother and lady of the house

This and other similar religious based inequalities will only get worse, not better, until such time as Israel will come into the modern age (post French&American revolutions) and adopt a written Comstitution with a strong separation of religion from politics, direct elections to Parliament t, indpendent branches of government with appropriate checks and balances and Laws that apply to All, no special interest rules and laws.

I actually live in Ramat Beit Shemesh and there are 2 bus lines to Jerusalem, the 417 and 418. The 418 is more chareidi so I never take it since the 417 comes so often anyway...why pick a fight? The one time I have taken the 418, no one has made any comments to me.

My first question to you Shulamit is, how were you dressed? If your mode of dressing was somewhat ofensive and degradable (not acceptible to the Torah laIws) then who are you to preach the holy scriptures. Orthodox men have to guard themselves from coveting, which is one of the 10 commandments, incase you're not aware, and if you don't know what that means, then look it up. As an orthodox woman myself I can tell you that we are very highly respected in this country by other orthodox men. Asking to go to the back of the bus is for your own protection as well. Our forfathers also placed themselfs in front of their wives and the women always travelled behind them. It's all written in the Torah. If you are a true Jew, you would know that. If you don't show respect for the word of G-d than how can you expect to be respected yourself. Humble yourself before Hashem.

at such age and how can this be the issue anyway?! when will the orthodox sector (which i, btw, also belong to) stop blaming others and start looking for tikun within?! i say, elul is the best time to start this process!

both here in Israel and abroad. NO MEN ALLOWED. As with men, there are more Women learning now than ever before. You should try it. You should try going to one of the women s sems and learn something.

Everywhere!!!!!! In all so called abramitic religions,women are seen the same:little study,little work,well covered face and feet,less important,less respected,less less less Priest,tabbies and imams are the same;man that want power and women to obey In the so called normal democratic nations,women on importn seat a very few,are harassed,made prostitutes to get a job,a model,a singer an actress.. One thing is sure:man have made this world,our world so disgusting ... I think this lady in the article is right:religion man have made women life worse...if it was not for unbelievers,this world would be full of women slaves like in Roman times... And all in the name of God:and his name is man!!!!! Men needs a slave women to feel he has power....we should start doing to man what they do to women,see if they like it...

Is this the same woman who referred to the citizens of Gush Katif as "Kulaks" thereby justifying the Stalinist genocide of the Ukranians? She is truly a disgusting, evil person. I am a haredi woman, and I think the segregated buses are stupid, but this person does not represent me or any other Haredi or religious Jewish woman! She is only interested in getting attention for herself! Her claims of "expertise" in the Talmud are about as relevant as Neturei Karta claims to have expertise in dialectical Marxism. In fact Shulamit and Neturei Karta agree on many things, particularly their opinion of Zionism.

The lady knows very well what she is talking about, dear Miriam: EQUALITY. You mentioned that Halachá says about women: "woman is the queen of her home and must be treated with respect". The Q'ran says the same thing. Effects are evident worldwide. You are only supporting DISCRIMINATION on sexual basis, not modesty, nor religion.

This women is nothing but a troublemaker and meddler. what does she know about Judaism? nothing. What is she doing in Ramat bet shemesh when she lives in Kfar shmaryahu.

Shulamit Aloni is a known radical leftist who "seems" to hate Israel and everything religious (At least this is what can be interpreted from her actions) But... The segregation of a public space due to gender, race, or how bad your breath smells, is simply disgusting. While I know that many Haredi do not hold to these views, the simple fact that it IS being practiced should be stopped. It seems that many of the Ultra Orthodox are slipping into a very disturbing mind set in regards to women (and some other things not related to this article). Unfortunately, condemnation from the secular public will not have the desired results. Instead the condemnation MUST come from the religious sector. If not then we will only see a FURTHER deterioration of the standing of religion in this country, and that would be a very sad thing.

Referenced was the Scripture of Zechariah 12:12,13 for the separation of genders on buses somehow using a Talmud. Reading the Scriptures and what preceeds them, it's not referencing an occurance as in seating in a bus. That being said for the buses, what would jewish etiquette be for riding in buses? Ladies might rather sit with ladies, elderly and parents with children may like to sit near the doors and a gentleman could always stand to allow a ladie a seat. Aside from this, revelations made of verses in Sanhedrin books are disgusting. From thinking Judaism was just TENAUK, of which the Torah would still be laid heavily upon, to see the evolutions of it today they are so varied and there's even some contempt where there is being blatant disregard for instructions given that all could atest to. Do religious meet and discuss issues to find a justifiable conclusion or are these camps that detached?

jewish women like your columnist can be anti-semites too--send her to new york times

If women are held in such high esteem, they would be separated from the men by being put at the front of the bus. Of course, one must ask if modesty has anything to do with the increasing separation of men and women amongst some groups of charaidim.

With Islam, which is the No. 1 oppressor of women.

respected by men. than orthodoxe women?

If the haredi community wishes to ride in segregated buses, that is their business. It is done in the U.S. in hardei communities in NJ and NY on privately owned buses. Take the state out of the equation, and let the haredim raise private funds for their own bus company. 'Nuf said. Next problem.

As a Christian, friend of Israel, I deplore that discrimination against the women, originated from orthodox radicalism. But this problem has occurred into all Nations under Abrahamic religions. In my country, for instance, married ladies obtained full civil rights only by 1988's Constitution. No comments about Islamic and African countries. The struggle for equal rights to men and women is a sacred duty. The words of God must be well interpreted.

Maybe women, and I'm one of them, need to accept some of the blame for allowing some men to treat us like possessions and not very valuable ones, at that. It's not quite fair to sit back, enjoy the ride, while it suits us and then, when we see and want a better ride, give some poor, unsuspecting guy hell for being who he is and always has been. Maybe if we'd play that man's game that drives us nuts, and even though it would make us sound ridiculous, maybe they'd fall for our BS, if we couched it in some lame compliment like, "You're so deliciously sexy, our panties start to slide off at the mere sight of you." Add the voice of an Aviv Azerad or Jon Bon Jovi and not even Masada would keep you poor men safe from us randy women." Hahaha Well, if nothing else, bunches of men would start to rummage through closets and look under beds for whomever we're talking about.