I order my secretary to watch a "blue movie" and she refuses. Am I allowed to fire her? If you answer "no", then why do you support firing the soldiers?

mister yair lapid is absolutely right, in that case/this time, i thought, i think now... iam glad that many good-willing people have the same opinion.

Religious men shouldn't be forced to listen to slutty women singing either. I'd rather attend a shiur than watch a bunch of women parade half naked singing pointless repetitive love songs that make no sense. Obviously, secular men(and women) have no concept of decency and modesty. I bet none of you have ever sat through a Torah lecture so who are you to call it drivel?Until you have, shut up and listen and take your Tel Avivnik attitude elsewhere.

This man has his head up his ass as usual. Who takes this fool seriously? Has ever considered the bigger picture?Hilonim complain that the religious society doesn't do much to contribute to Israeli society. When the datim/haredim enlist in the IDF, they get discharged from not wanting to attend a female concert.These commanders have an ax and grind against the religious cadets and will intentionally put them in a predicament.In short, its people like him who create more irrational divisiveness between the secular and religious world.He and his ilk are more part of the problem than the solution.If he is trying to advance his political career by spewing this tripe, he certainly not going to earn my vote. I'm not in favor of imposition of any kind. But I think the double standard of the irreligious is ridiculous.You can't have it both ways. You can live your life as you see fit but you can't attack Jewish values and principles whilst forcing secular culture and tolerance upon those who don't want to have anything to do with it. These concerts and Torah lectures should be optional rather than mandatory. People should attend these events out of their own will;not out of coercion. Israel is a Jewish state based on a democratic infrastructure.

Dear Yair, I would like to suggest that any man who will never feel any sexual feelings at all to a lady singing should be removed for counselling and not visa versa. What sort of sexual animals have we become if hearing ladies singing does not attract us men to them at all? Do you need them to have a naked orgy to get you excited? Where do you draw the line? For young religious soldiers who's parents have managed to successfully educate them to a Torah education (which clearly draws the line and says female live singing is not for men to watch) to refrain from porn etc which is the right thing to do to maintain normal honest sexual relations with ones spouse later in life, guess what? women can excite them and according to our Torah this is wrong and can lead to sin. To coerce them into becoming sexually desensitized as you're suggesting that you've become is clearly a bad decision. Conclusions: Thank G-D that there's still some people out there who stand by the Torahs moral ground and for you or the IDF to condemn that is purely sacrilegious and not befitting for Israel.

you can fire her any time, but she might go to court and win the case... the soldiers are also in court and can win the case... but the cases are very very different... being a soldier is not a workplace... its not an employment contract, different laws and courts are applied... and for this comparison... (to show how wrong it is)... what would you say, when the soldiers tells his commander: "its 5 pm now, see you tomorrow"...

(1) can a soldier dismiss his commanders order without facing trial or being dismissed from the army ? ...(in what cases he can pls elaborate)... (2) does the IDF have to follow halachic rules ? if so, to what extend...and why do you think an army should have halachic rules as the highest priority to follow... (3) are halachic issues above any law in the country ? so, if there is a law, and someone acted against this law because he can argue that he had to stay in complience with halacha, then he is right and doesnt get punished ? ... yes or no pls... sorry, when i spelled or used "halachic" somehow wrong... but pls try to answer... tia

The Jewish state exists today and needs interpretations of the Torah and the Halakha that reflect present conditions. Neither the written, nor the oral portion were meant to put a halt on the development of Jewish society. In fact the arguments and comments documented in the oral Torah give a blueprint on how to evolve interpretations. No modern Jew wants a backward orientated interpretation of our Scriptures, just like Islamists do it with their Scriptures. I always understood Elohim to invite me to live, to be a real human who positively accepts the challenges of today and who applies the teachings of the Torah to positively respond to today's challenges. So, dear Haredim: Go out and have a look what is going on here! Accept modern life! Educate yourself and your children! Work! Work a lot! Stop discriminating women and stop using the Torah as a cheap excuse!

all secular Israelis should be provided in secondary school with copies of Richard Dawkins " the god delusion" and Chris Hutchins " god is not great " they would be given competant lecturers who would provide them with sound scientific proof that there is no god . Armed properly with all the facts they could sit and listen to fudamentalist fakirs rabbis priest and imans till the cows come home - because no educated person can seriously take infantile religious gobbldeygook as anything other than mental inpairment

If they were officer cadets they agreed to do keva, a real job and career. I hope the court will address the possibility of firing someone because they refuse to watch some entertainment. Sadly, both you and I know the court will protect women from harassment, but not a religious Jew. But as for the issue, even if the soldiers were conscripts, the army never told them that an essential part of being a combat soldier is listening to the music your boss wants. They should have been informed so they could choose to be jobnikim. And your analogy is wrong. If my secretary left at 5 pm and I am paying her for the 12 to 7 shift, she'd be fired. Just like my secretary, combat soldiers know that part of their job is being on base.

did the officer cadets SEEK confirmation, that this army is a halachic place - BEFORE joining ? the army isnt such a place, and everyone knows... they dismissed their commanders order, and didnt have any right to do so. for whatever reason it was. they acted against the statute of officers/soldiers. and because they did it for the reason "halachic" doesnt excempt them from that general rule... i understand, you are saying, that "anti-halachic""-orders can be dismissed by everyone in the army... is there such a law confirming this ? do you really like, to have such a law ? or just when women are involved, or singing... ?

The rabbinical prohibition against Jewish males listening to female singing was done by conflating "Ervah" with female singing i.e. Ervah/Nakedness being sexual titillation etc. A handy prohibition to keep women out of the public scene... Same is true for married women NOT covering their hair being conflated with Ervah and thus being subject to bigoted opprobrium. The rabbis of yore made anti-women rules to please their male constituents but conveniently forgot very well documented instances when such rules had no place e.g. Myriam's song and Devorah's song, and the 15th of Ab public singing by young women looking for marriage partners... Let's get reasonable for the sake of UNITY; the men who don't want to listen to women singing should stick fingers in their "precious holy" ears (another well documented Jewish practice)... Rabbinical decrees are not Divine no matter how much the h'aredim/Perushim scream and agitate to the contrary. Medinat Israel needs able-bodied soldiers of both genders to defend its citizenry, not fanatics fighting to prohibit public female singing...remember what happened 2,000 years ago when the state was destroyed by the internal strife caused by the very same types of religious-fanatics as today. .

... I'm not religious and I do not believe in religion. But I do believe in the rule of law. If the military dictated that soldiers listen to a lecture on the Shintu gods of Japan it is my position that the soldiers should be given no excuse to leave, however cumbersome or irrelevant the lecture. Of course, the army should at some point justify internally why this is part of compulsary service, but that is another discussion. Judean law does not prohibit one from being exposed to indecency but from exposing one's self indecently. No one is proposing to enforce this by prohibiting the girls from singing. However, in a venue slated for indecency there is a requirement to avoid exposure - and that is what the two dismissed soldiers elected to observe, gosh bless them. In this instance it is my position that no one would be forced to *listen* to the singing, but hearing it would be innevitable - this should not spell a haredi requirement to be absent from the event (unless it is the sole attraction of the event), but individually one may determine that he simply cannot avoid succumbing to temptation and elect to step out. Keeping him there at that point is tantamount to coersion against his religion. All that with the caviot that he is not deemed mentally unfit for duty due to his condition - a barometer that should be equal for all sectors. Mr. Lapid is comparing apples and oranges, effectively declaring that if one soldier may skip the apples due to an allergy then every soldier should be able to order "off the menu." Lapid is smarter than this line of logic, but apparently this subject has hit an emotional nerve and he has lost his renowned objectivity.

first of all: the severity of watching a blue movie with the case of a singing female soldier dressed in uniform at a public ceremony cant be compared... neither is the status soldier comparable to status secretary, for various reasons... but some other examples: (1) would an idf commander ask soldiers to watch a blue movie with him/her, then of course the soldiers had the same right to refuse as the secretary... (2) you have hired a sales account manager. then there is a very important business event, but your manager says... "sorry, cant go there, i cant stand their women singing"... or he goes there and behaves totally inappropriate during the ceremony, embarrassing your company and yourself, even degrading you in front of all... -> im sure you CAN fire him over this...