Jewish Scene
State justifies religious cadets' dismissal
Aviad Glickman
Published: 21.09.11, 08:24
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18 Talkbacks for this article
1. "...maintaining Jewish Law without any compromises"?!?
Brian Cohen ,   Judean Peoples Front   (09.21.11)
What a maroon! This guy thinks he's more pious than the chief rabbi of Israel, who was documented here in Ynet as having the same thing happen to him. What did Chief Rabbi Amar do? He ignored the singer, sat through that portion of the event with singing, and continued on with his life and the event. This cadet shows that he has bad decision making abilities, and the IDF was correct in chucking him out. I want an IDF with officers who are uncompromising on the defense of the country. This guy showed he was not up to the level of competence and ability that the IDF needs. So far as I know, he's not from my neighborhood here in the high hills of Judea, where we have lots of religious IDF officers who couldn't give a rats ass if they're at an event where a woman sings. Their goal is to follow Torah and serve their country. This kid appears to have been serving the ideals of some teacher who planted the dysfunctional seed in his head.
2. Thank you state for standing by the side of justice.
Jew1 ,   Ashdod   (09.21.11)
First of all IDF is not yashiva and one should not suffocate IDF on the reason that IDF needs soldiers to go on war in front. Don't you feel it's your duty to protect and fight for your own country, for your mothers and sisters and for your friends? You are not doing a favor on your country by joining IDF but performing your duty. It's just that you woke up 60+ years later. But on the other hand woman being a woman took her responsibilty 60+ years before and took equal responsibility in different posts of IDF. You have no right to degrade and insult her by walking out. You should have respected her at that moment and then discussed the matter with your seniors. I hope that even IDF will took into this matter carefully and these people should be allowed to opt out themselves from attending such functions. In any case, woman and woman singers should be part of every function and should not be degraded or opted out because of haredim stone age way of thingking.
3. No Difference
Reuven Brauner ,   Raanana, Israel   (09.21.11)
There is no difference what the event is: Kol Isha is forbidden and forcing a Jewish soldier to listen to a woman singing is a violation of Jewish Law. The State Prosecutor's is wrong in forcing unacceptable Secular values on Jewish soldiers by punishing them for preserving Jewish ethical ideals indicates how far removed that office is from understanding what Judaism and Jews are all about. Goyim have more sensibility and respect for religious rights than these idiots.
4. Cant' have your cake and eat it too....
Mitchell Cohen ,   Gush-Etzion, Israel   (09.21.11)
I don't get it. People are complaining about not enough religious serving in the IDF (although the percentage of knitted kippot in the IDF is way above their percentage in the general population), yet they pull insensitive stunts like this. Is it really a life or death situation for the IDF to have a female sing at a ceremony where no small number of soldiers in the audience are religious or, at the very least, that those who religious sensitivities would be compromised being forced to stay? This particular cadet enlisted in the Nahal Haredi unit because he was assured his religious sensitivities would be taken into account. And then the army turns around and puts him on the spot like this. Shame!!!! And then everyone expects the Haredim to show up at Bakum in droves. Good luck with that!!!!
5. #3
Matan ,   Jerusalem   (09.21.11)
Nonsense, it comes from rules made by Rabbis who place themselves higher than HaShem and are more akin to radical imams. The soldier got what he deserves and does not deserve - at all - to have the honor of wearing the rank of an officer. This misogynist trend must come to an end, HaShem counts the tears of women.
6. What do women singing have to do with Military History?
Rebecca ,   Modiin   (09.21.11)
"The commander .. took into account the need to consider the religious cadet's feelings.." excuse me but BS. If the commander actually had thought about this in advance, then I conclude that he specifically orchestrated this incident.
7. #3 @Reuven
Yehudiyah ,   US   (09.21.11)
Reuven, it is time for you and your religious buddies to understand that the oppression of women in all facets of life takes us back to the stone age. HaShem gave women voices with which to express themselves by talking and singing. We are people just like you, and our ability to express ourselves through our voices should be respected by men, as we respect men by listening to them sing and talk.
8. rabbi's do not get to decide what is HAlachic law!
US Navy Officer ,   Ship on the High Sea   (09.21.11)
if your rebbe decides that doing kitchen duty is against halacha, will you then start to claim that you can't follow an order to do it?!?
9. #8
Israel Israeli ,   Tel Aviv   (09.21.11)
We are not talking of kitchen duty. The lawyers call it "military history lesson" when in fact it was entertainment. Maybe in the USN you can order people to watch entertainment, but you can't in the IDF and that is what the case is about. Now tell me, how will your career go if you order some sailor to watch "blue movies" with you? No one has yet to explain what the difference is.
10. More than enough reason to hate organazed religion.
leo ,   usa   (09.21.11)
I bet there is nobody in the world who could rationally explain why singing of one person (gender differences or not) must affect piousness of the other. There may be exception though, but only if listener is doing it willingly rather than under duress.
11. As a retire officer from the Artillery Corps let us in
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (09.21.11)
And a former US Army officer I have but one question. Just what the hell does a female singer have to do with being a good officer? I was not required to attend any such singing by male or female when I took officer training in either the United State or Israel. I am not religious in the least and I cannot under why the commanding officer was such a dickhead.
12. US Navy Officer #8
Gee ,   Zikron Yaakov   (09.21.11)
Now that you have told us that you have no knowledge of Judaism go away. The function of a Rabbi is to decide what and what is not Halacha law. I will not tell you how to steer a ship, please do not attempt to teach us about Judaism and the duties of a Rabbi.
13. The commander was WRONG. Plain and simple WRONG.
Bunnie Meyer ,   Los Angeles, CA USA   (09.21.11)
14. The IDF should respect 'special units'
David ,   Shiloh Israel   (09.21.11)
The British Army had a Gurka battalion during WW2. They respected the special needs of those Indian warriors. Many other countries have special units with their own needs. This 'does not' go against an overall command structure that has the right to expect basic obeyance of its command. However, in this instance, the command structure appears to be oblivious of the need for special units. Based on such faulty judgment one can argue that women should be obliged to use men's lavatories and shave their hair. Nahal Haredi was a specially formed unit and has 'every' right to be traeted as such. It doesn't go against IDF discilpine. However, it seems obvious that someone in command is determined to demoralize our IDF is that an ideal situation?
15. #7 Issue 'not' about demoralizing women
David ,   Shiloh Israel   (09.21.11)
I see a few TB's mistaking the issue for one of insulting femaies. This is unfair and far from the truth. I for one don't hold strong about laws concerning listening to a solo female voice, however the issue is about respecting those that do. Once gain, Nahal Haredi was formed with the strict intention of integrating Haredim into the IDF without compromising their values. It is well known that such values includes seperation of the sexes. It is therefore nothing short of wicked and arrogant behavior to 'deceive' those who willingly signed up under such expectations. This is more about insulting males than females.
16. And we wonder why haredim refuse to serve
Mordechai   (09.22.11)
The issue is not whether or not secular Jews this the Orthodox halacha against women singing is a good idea or not. The issue is forcing someone to violate their religious beliefs. Its no different than forcing a muslim soldier to eat at a birthday party on Ramadan. Imagine the outrage is a commander threw a muslim soldier out of an officers course for refusing to eat birthday cake on Ramadan.
17. State & Religion
Bruria   (09.22.11)
This comes from a government that tells soldiers not to eat, drink or smoke in front of Muslims on Ramadan?? They are ordered to show respect for Islam (the guys who are trying to wipe us off the map)? Surely the commander could have allowed a smidgen of respect for Judaism--we are a Jewish state--and given this boy kitchen duty, or guard duty that night. It was entertainment for pete's sake! The stupidity is mind boggling...
18. great army
rita   (09.22.11)
wow, great army where everybody can do what he/she wants, walk out, disobey orders, pray instead of fight- makes one wonder how Israel ever made it this far... Young people think the army is a summer camp?
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