Jewish Scene
'Troops will die rather than listen to women'
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 18.11.11, 14:02
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1. "Rabbi"
Mike Carmel ,   Rishon le Zion   (11.18.11)
Doesn't this stupid rabbi like women then? Are they inferior creatures in his eyes? Is he completely insane? This sort of nonsense makes one despair.
2. The Army, The State, The Soldier And G-d
Ariel Ben Yochanan ,   Kfar Tapuah, Efraim   (11.18.11)
B"H The army of the Golden Calf State is clearly not Jewish as it is. The oath of allegiance to civil law and to the legal command-structure makes this concept visible and obvious: Jews wowed allegiance to Hashem, to our G-d, under the Mount in Sinai, not to Netanyahu and not to Barak!
3. Prohibition on women's singing not halakhic
Yael ,   Israel   (11.18.11)
The prohibition on listening to women singing has historically been followed only in Ashkenazi Jewish communities in Christian countries. Jewish communities in Spain and North Africa never had such a prohibition. In fact, in Ladino-speaking communities, not only were virtually all songs written specifically for women's voices, but the singers at Jewish weddings were women. Making this particular prohibition out to be of greater halakhic import than the prohibition on embarrassing other Jews (even if they are women) is cherry picking.
4. Listening to Women Sing
Jeff ,   Ra'anana & USA   (11.18.11)
I have a very simple solution: Use ear plugs and look down if you feel uncomfortable. This way the Dati soldiers will not be humiliated or antagonize fellow soldiers and officers. Everyone will still get along!
5. DO WE NOT TRUST OUR TZAHAL
A ASH ,   TEL AVIV   (11.18.11)
OUR TZAHAL ARE THE BEST -DO WE NOT TRUST THEM THAT THEY WILL GO CRAZY WHEN THEY HEAR THE VOICE OF WOMEN. THE RABBIS OPINION MEANS WE MIS EDUCATED OUR BOYS AND GIVE THEM THE STRENGTH TO OVERCOME ALL ISSUES
6. "We are all subject to Shulchan Aruch, Talmud"
Eddie ,   London UK   (11.18.11)
NO ,we are not. It is precisely these man made new testaments that caused the destruction of the Temple and the exile of 2000 years. The Torah does not forbid women from singing, or men listening to them. This is a falsehood, invented by rabbis, just like many other falsehoods. Prophets, Torah are all we need, forget the Talmud!
7. Elyakim Levanon
Ed Codish ,   Pardessiya, Israel   (11.18.11)
Elyakim Levanon's photograph should be posted in a place of honor in every non-Kosher restaurant, movie theater open on Shabbat, and in general in strip joints and other places that reject Jewish law. He should be heralded as their patron saint. No one does more than he and others like him to make normal people despise Judaism and reject it. He is so far from normal Judaism that I am unable to accept that he is, in any meaningful way, Jewish at all. He is like the fool who declares that we should observe Shabbat, eat Kosher food, and remember that the earth is flat. That last item destroys any value in the first two. Ed Codish Pardessiya
8. Various orthodox opinions and commentary on this rule
Nehama ,   Jerusalem   (11.18.11)
Go to Wikipedia and write kol isha or women singing Judaism and see how many orthodox rabbis contest this rigid reading of law- Sdei Chemed is one example This whole topic is so silly. From what I have studied on subject if the singing is wholesome - songs of Patriotism, honor, and land there is nothing wrong with it. Many orthodox rabbis do hold this view - singing can be very innocent . What soldiers don't need is Britney spears half naked . Our female soldiers sing in respectful manner. This topic has become such an issue when once it was not. It is due to haredization of average orthodox groups. I suggest reading history of kol isha and learn how varied the commentaries are on subject. It is not one rule fits all. I find this subject to be a minor matter and most dati Leumi groups I know hold different parshanut from big gedolim and allow singing. It is not the same in every orthodox community. I find it sad that this subject is in the news so often. I
9. reality
michaelpielet ,   Israel   (11.18.11)
The backbone of the army is the religious soldiers. Most of the chelonim are either deserters or jobniks. Who is doing the fighting! Therefore the army should give precedence to the fighters, the religious soldiers. In case of wa, real war, the girls are not going to fight and the chelonim have no motivation to fight. No religious soldiers, no army, no country.
10. Women in IDF....
Rashid ,   Chicagi, IL   (11.18.11)
Just a few inputs from your "cousins"......we would like to welcome you to the neighborhood. At last, you are making some positive steps to integrate into the region you live. Gender segregation is gaining momentum in Israel as it should. Look at all the socities around you. You are finally becoming one of them. In fact, you should continue to take some examples from us Arabs on our views regarding women, and you will definitely turn into a "light unto the nations."
11. Women's Voices
M. Hartley ,   Atlanta, US   (11.18.11)
Although I do not subscribe to any religion, I do believe in God. How anyone, especially a socalled Man of God, can so belittle what is most certainly one of His/Her creations, e. g. women and their voices, is beyond my comprehension. I just don't get it. Actually, maybe the Rabbi had to suffer through some "singing" similar to mine to feel the way he does about all women's voices, although one pair of shoes doesn't fit all feet. Being a widow, maybe the Rabbi could give me the names of men, who would get excited and go off the deep end at the sound of my croaking. I'm not looking for another husband, just somebody with whom to have fun. Not that I would take advantage of the situation, but a guy, whose zipper would fly open and whose pants would drop at my singing, sounds just about right. Not even a Rabbi should be allowed to make Judaism look ridiculous.
12. Women singing before men
RC ,   USA   (11.18.11)
Where in Torah does it state that women cannot sing before men? If it is a sin do you think we would not have been clearly warned by The Almighty through the prophets? Are you going to tell us next that a woman cannot sing to her child? Why would our Creator give most women beautiful voices if he intended them not to be heard? I do not think someone should be forced to hear someone singing against their will but the I am holier than though attitude toward women should be really considered when it comes to singing. Get it together already, for Israel’s sake. I recommend you check out the following: http://www.chabad.org/theJewishWoman/article_cdo/aid/97367/jewish/Women-in-the-Synagogue.htm
13. It's Rabbis like these that make me a proud Jew
Eli ,   Israel   (11.18.11)
I served in the IDF and I would gladly go to jail and AWOL on the IDF if the Rabbi's gave the green light. Israel needs to except the fact that the Leftist Atheist Jews do not serve in the IDF anymore, it is Torah believing Jews that are at the forefront, they are the only patriotic men we have left in Israel. The war with the Arabs is a religious war and it can only be won with a stronger religion on our side.
14. singing issue 'no brainer'
moron ,   GALUT   (11.18.11)
idf chief rabbi has it right-do not order anyone to listen to female singers..or male singers either for that matter..stop singing while at attention..really!!!!!
15. The objection is based the condemnation of females wearing
Rivkah   (11.18.11)
garments that pertain to males in the Torah. Proverbs 31 has a warning from Queen Bathsheba to her son King Solomon (called Lemuel) in which she warns him that men should not give their strength to women. The word strength in that verse means "army, defenses, fortifications." From those standpoints, it is correct for males to object to female authority in the military. HOWEVER, HaShem regards women who serve in the military honorably to be males, so taking directions from a female in authority in the military is all right with HaShem IF she is serving honorably. How do I know that? From the ELS Scripture code matrix's from HaShem in the Holy Scriptures. Sarah Palin is the wife of Abraham and President in the ELS Scripture code matrix on her name which means she is as highly regarded as the Matriarch Sarah to HaShem and is worthy to be a US President. In the ELS Scripture code matrix on my name and Hebrew birth year with Navy since I was in the military, there is the name Solomon, a man's name. That means to me that when a woman serves honorably in the military (I have two honorable discharges from the US Navy), she is regarded as a man to HaShem, so it is all right for men in the military to obey her orders and to take orders from a woman who for the nation's sake becomes a male to HaShem and dons male attire (battle dress). What is a protession many males are in that is a female occupation that is an offense to HaShem for a male to be in? Delivering babies. Male midwives (OB/GYN, etc) are an abomination to HaShem.
16. Women Singing
Steve Goodman ,   Israel   (11.18.11)
We have just opened Pandora's Box, now our enemy knows how to defeat large numbers of the IDF. They will mount large amplifiers playing the voices of "FEMALES SINGING" during any combat operations, patrols in contested areas, eyc. etc.
17. Rebbe! Rebbe! Rebbe! Riboine shel Oil them
Israeli 2   (11.18.11)
What kind of meshugaas is this? Listening to a voice of a female is Pasul? Our mothers, our sisters and our daughters are all women. How would we be in this world without them? Please respect, Rebbe. Respect.
18. Apparently sanity is not the ultra-orthidox's strong point
Jonathan ,   MN/US   (11.18.11)
If a soldier dosnt have the mental fortidtude to ingnore women singing then they dont have the fortidtude to be in the IDF.... pardon my spelling
19. Moron "Rabbi"
Ben ,   Chutzlaaretz   (11.18.11)
So dearest "Rabbi" when Miriam sang to the People of Israel after they cross the red sea.. did she sing only to the women? This is NOT Torah.. it is Minhag for some throwback ashkanze groups inspired by CHRISTIAN puritans. If you can't control your Libido because you hear a women's voice, the problem is with YOU!
20. What's the big deal...
Stan ,   USA   (11.18.11)
about another rabbi who doesn't know halacha?
21. To and re #10 Rashid
John ,   Alaska   (11.18.11)
First Rachid: Thanks very much for your post; with it, you make clear what Israel is doing, and where she is going. Second, for everyone: Please understand what this person is saying: in your attitude against women and your actions supporting this atrocious anti-Scriptural attitude, you are _adopting the practices of your enemies, of the people of the land_. This is exactly what Ha'Shem warned you _not_ to do.
22. This argument can be solved easily ...
John ,   Alaska   (11.18.11)
By looking at Judges, chapters 4-5. Deborah is an example of the fact that Ha'shem approves of women being in charge, delivering His word to men, being in combat, and - important to this discussion - singing with men. May the people of Israel follow Ha'Shem's example concerning women, rather than the example of their enemies.
23. Rabbi OR?! ......
David Fakheri ,   Los Angles   (11.18.11)
RABBI??!! OR The enemy's fifth column in Israel??!!. David Fakheri L A
24. G-d say come sing unto the Lord thy G-d.
John Phee ,   Sydney, AUSTRALIA   (11.18.11)
Hallelujah, doesn't that translate into come sing unto they G-d. Ummmmm....... I doesn't say men come sing , no just come & sing. When will these loonies stop placing themselves above G-d. They are blasphemers.
25. Isralei taliban
MAB ,   Sarnia, Canada   (11.18.11)
Israel is doomed with leaders like this moron
26. To #24 John in Sydney
John ,   Alaska   (11.18.11)
Hallujah means "praise the LORD". But you are correct that Ha'Shem does not limit singing only to one sex, nor only in the hearing or ones' same sex. As mentioned above, Israel sang together unto Ha'Shem as early as Exodus 15. I disagree with your last sentence; they are not blasphers, only incorrectly taught. They will get a more accurate view of Scripture with more study thereof.
27. "Rabbi" Levanon first
Norm Hanson ,   Edmonton, Canada   (11.18.11)
If this Rabbi thinks that young men should give their lives in defense of ultra-orthodox fanaticism, then he should march to the front of the line, and volunteer his own life first. But I suspect that like all demagogues, he prefers to sacrifice the lives of others, while cynically protecting his own life and lifestyle.
28. This guy belongs with the Taliban
Leo ,   Canada   (11.18.11)
If his believes do not allow him to hear a woman singing, stupid as it sounds, I can respect that as a different view of life. But saying that somebody will prefer death to hearing a woman sing is the stupidest thing I have ever heard. The sad part is that this guys is indoctrinating our youths. Magic thinking has nothing to do with spirituality. It's just a proof that some minds have remained trapped in the past. Judaism is all about celebrating life. This guy got it all wrong!!
29. Sincerely held religious belief
Besalel ,   Great Neck, NY   (11.18.11)
It does not matter what you and I think of the prohibition of kol isha but if the soldiers themselves have a sincerely held religious belief it is entirely unjust for the army to compel these soldiers to violate the belief.
30. #11 you are hilarious
Connie ,   Shenandoah   (11.18.11)
still laughing. ok, now to the comment. Women were the first ones to see the resurrected Christ. More honer was given to them by Him.
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