Jewish Scene
'Troops will die rather than listen to women'
Kobi Nahshoni
Published: 18.11.11, 14:02
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31. #13 its rabbies like that make me denounce my jewdism
haim ,   ta   (11.18.11)
Obvioulsy jewdism has become a medevil practice that has place in a modern society, it has also become a tool of hatred, of which i no longer wish to associate with any longer, infact next week i am going to have religion: jewish removed from my ID i hope that my children will also remove them selves from religion, and marry a non jew. Amen
32. Halacha Is Pragmatic
Sigmund   (11.19.11)
The Halacha has lways had pragmitism like pikuach nefesh fighting on shabbos and the brilliant Hatzollah so i think the Rabbi is a crazy on this issue.The army can also compromise and i am sure alot of religious youths listen to female voices on the sly and the Haredim have their Marrano Cult.Sure the secular are far too loose with sex but what a beat up.
33. To #30 my sister Connie and to readers of Post 30
John ,   Alaska   (11.19.11)
As this is a site for news from Israel and news of interest to Jews, you will find most of the readers here to be Jews, who do not take interest in Jesus of Nazareth. They will be uncomfortable with a post such as this one. Some of our readers may make this clear in very pointed words, so I am writing this with the hope of sheltering you from responses that may make you as uncomfortable as you may have made our friends here. The controversy over whether Y'Shua ben Joseph is Messiah will of course be resolved when Messiah appears, but until then, perhaps it is best if you respect the feelings of our hosts here and in Israel. Blessings from your brother.
34. Ben Gurion's dream is materialzing
J.K. ,   Brooklyn USA   (11.19.11)
That Israel should integrate into the arab world.
35. # 30 Connie
Sagi   (11.19.11)
You have been watching too many Hollywood movies.
36. New PA Strategy - Bikini Women's Choir
Mark ben Josef ,   USA   (11.19.11)
And the new movement will be called the Singing Intifada. Bikini clad Palestinian women singing to protest all kinds of stuff - in four part harmony. Why throw rocks when a voice and bikini line will send them running for the hills.
37. Halacha and women singing
Anshel ,   Toronto, Canada   (11.19.11)
Halacha was does not need to be compromised. With all due respect to the Talmud and Maimonides, a modern Jewish army like IDF was not envisioned and there is no logical reason why not to make slight adjustments and flexibility with respect to listening to a female singer. After all these young women and men are asked to serve and protect the state of Israel from enemies and they can be called to scarify their lives on moment notice. In my humble opinion, the issue in the context of IDF, is trivial and the haredi rabbis should get a life.
38. IDF vulnerable to singing women...
Trev ,   Canada   (11.19.11)
Iran doesn't need nuclear weapons to defeat Israel, It only needs singing women... If only I really lived in a world where singing women could stand in for armed conflict.
39. 22 John, Alaska: Deborah was indeed a Judge in Israel, BUT
Rivkah   (11.19.11)
Barak, her General, was in charge of instructing the army and battles. True, Barak insisted Deborah be there but she would not make the decisions a General should make since she had not served in the military herself and did not have the background to run a military except as a figurehead. Leader of the nation, yes. Leader of the military, no. She gave that authority to Barak.
40. Why doesn't the army supply earplugs?
LOD ,   Israel   (11.19.11)
Seems perfectly obvious to me......Then the religious soldiers, wearing special-issue earplugs, will be able to attend ceremonies where female soldiers sing and not be "aroused" (if that is what happens), and be true to their religious beliefs. Happy Rabbis, happy religious soldiers and happy commanders.
41. If any soldier follows the rabbi's advice
Sagi   (11.19.11)
and decides to die instead of listening to a woman singing then he will only add himself to a long list of millions of idiots throughout history who were sacrificed by their leaders or who sacrificed themselves in the name of religion and its tenets.The epitome of human madness is religion. If a spiritual leader can urge death as preferable to the female voice then this is not just madness it is madness run amok.
42. # 40 Not good enough
Sagi   (11.19.11)
They would also have to be blindfolded. Even then the faint waft of perfume would send blood vessels to bursting point.
43. Religious beliefs should be accepted
Taxpayer ,   Hod Hasharon   (11.19.11)
If the "religious" soldiers believe that it is wrong for them to listen to women's voices then the army should accept their beliefs and allow them not to attend. At the same time, the army should accept that many of its soldiers, most of them are actually Jewish rather than belonging to some extremists offshoot that does not follow discredited rabbis who misenterpate Judaism and it should allow any soldier who does not want to listen to an orthodox rabbi to excuse themself the moment that an orthodox rabbi opens his mouth. The army should also allow non-orthodox Jews to be free from the imposition of orthodox rabbis at memorial days, funerals and so on. As they demand everyone;s religious beliefs should be accepted.
44. BIG ISRAEL: politically secular, cultural core traditional.
Jerry ,   The Netherlands   (11.19.11)
45. HOLY CRAP THIS COULD BE HAMAS NEW STRATEGY
Jonathan ,   MN/US   (11.19.11)
Instead of launching rockets they'l just play lady gaga at israel, that will drive out the israelis.
46. Jews are ignoramus ! How ignorant have we come?
Yoni ,   Tel aviv   (11.19.11)
I cannot believe the ignorance of the majority of the Jewish people. It is like there is a small sector of the Jews who know what Judaism is and why we care about Israel and what our purpose in the world is and there is another sector that is completely ignorant and has no clue and cannot fathom what could be wrong with forcing religious Jews to go against Halacha. They haven't a clue what Torah is and what a Jew is. Instead they make up their own crappy opinions and call the religious Taliban. Don't forget 4/5 of the Jews did not make it out of Egypt either.
47. singing
liz ,   Israel   (11.19.11)
I am not religous but have to say the singers in the IDF are dreadful, get on with being soldiers and forget the singing and then everyone will be happy !
48. songs of women
Yonah Grau ,   Safed, Israel   (11.19.11)
'vatashar Devorah u Barak, ba yom ha hu.....Miriam and the other women sang at the Red Sea, and Devorah sang with Barak...is there anything in the IDF controversy, about the subject of the songs?..or if the army women dress and sing modestly??? (I am a woman).
49. Isaiah 54:1
Moshe ,   USA   (11.19.11)
It's says - SING, ...WOMAN! The woman needs at least 2 witnesses to hear her sing - the Almighty and a male ear to listen. Miriam used her voice - Allow the women to Sing - SONG OF THE SEA. Get it out and allow the women to sing it to the heavens to bear witness she is the creation from of the glory of man. Her voice came from the inner being of man that he has looong forgot. They are ONE body under one name - mankind. A man who is not kind to his woman has no body. He is alone and it's not good for man to be alone.
50. #46,If I didn't make it out of Egypt,so what?I am still here
Michael ,   California, USA   (11.19.11)
51. Great, let the Rabbi lead by example
William ,   Israel   (11.20.11)
When Rabbi Elyakim Levanon stands in front of the firing squad, I will believe his conviction.
52. #36 - if they aren't stoned by their own people first
William ,   Israel   (11.20.11)
you forget that the Arab world, including the "Palestinians" are full of discrimination especially against women. In typical form, the PA would follow your suggestion and create a bikini choir, and just as the ultraorthodox were ready to turn and run the Arabs would stone their own "weapon" effectively neutralizing it.
53. Rivkah - I never said she was general, BUT
John ,   Alaska   (11.20.11)
She did in fact lead Barak both to start his campaign and to fight the winning battle. And of course, Barak listened to her, and the Israelites expected her to do her part and Barak to respond to her. Soldiers do not consider the general who gives the colonel his marching orders to be a figurehead. And in fact, you can consider Deborah a general, as the general's task is to tell army leaders what is the will of the nations leader, YHVH being the leader of Israel. That is my perspective, but the Jewish Women's Archive at jwa dot org has a more detailed analysis of this singing prophetess' leadership, and how the authority that she exercised was no longer seen in women after the people asked for a king to lead them, rather than YHVH Himself. So we see that the armies of Israel didn't listen to women singing as Deborah did, but only after they asked to be like the nations around them. Rabbi Levanon should give this fact serious consideration, and ask himself whether the nations around Israel are, in fact, the people he wants Israel to emulate.
54. #44 Jerry, I never though I'd disagree with you
John ,   Alaska   (11.20.11)
Not the Big Israel part - Ha'Shem has already given the borders of Israel, and Israel is nowhere close to them. And not about the traditional cultural core; the Covenant with Ha'Shem informed the whole culture of Israel. But that middle part, politically secular, has been Israel's weakness; it has fed the awful concept of moral equivalency, prevented Israel from growing to the borders Ha'Shem has provided (and to shrink back from parts of the Promised Land, with awful consequences), and led to anti-Biblical political practices Like Israel allowing her enemies literally to rule over her. But please continue your posts: Big Israel is given in Scripture as the will of Ha'Shem for Israel.
55. To #46 Yoni in Tel Aviv
John ,   Alaska   (11.20.11)
What do you do when a rabbi advises a course of action based on religious principle that does not match the example set in the Tanach? Because the examples of Miriam in Exodus and of Deborah in Judges would not have existed had Israel listened to Rabbi Levanon from the start.
56. i once heard a woman sing....
Fred ,   USA   (11.19.11)
I heard Cindi Lauper when I was driving a convertable. I had a premature ejaculation which shot up in the air, hit the window of a truck behind me and caused a 5-vehicle crash which took lives. So NEVER think that laws like these serve no purpose!!
57. You gave the enemy the secret to winning!
David ,   Hartford USA   (11.20.11)
All Hizbollah and Hamas have to do is send naked Palestinian women running towards the Israeli troops. Rather than have to see, G-d forbid, naked women, the troops will flee at first sight! This would make a heck of a news story. "Israeli troops retreated across the front due to naked Arab women on the battlefield." One Israeli soldier was quoted as saying, "How can we defeat the enemy when he throws naked women at us? Can't he feel our shame?!" One particularly beautiful woman was heard saying, "What's wrong with these Jews boys? They don't like this? (pointing to her hot body). They must be nuttier than our men are!"
58. Rabbis got their wives to write letters, so walk out.
Josh   (11.20.11)
Rabbis didn't let daughters speak at funerals of their fathers and now says rebel against the chain of command because of songs, then should we continue the lead? Since Rabbis got their wives to write letters (cowardice from prosecution let alone firing squads) , should followers face shooting squads rather than following Rabbis instructions since wives have become involved? All chain of command is out the window? To try and disable the chain of command in Israeli military and surrender the lives of men to shooting squads as well as families to enemies when we are overrun because the military is led by the soldiers and not commanders, is nothing less than anti-semitism at its worst. Who is this guy? Lord farquad from the movie Shrek? "Some of you may die, but it is the price I am willing to pay" LOL
59. Mad Rabbi
Kyle Broflovski ,   South Park, USA   (11.20.11)
This guy is just as much a fruitcake as any Taliban and he gives Jews a bad name.
60. Martyrdom & Kol Isha
Norman Gellman ,   Rehovot   (11.20.11)
First in Judaism, martyrdom is called Kiddush Hashem—"the sanctification of G‑d's name," and a martyr is called kadosh—"holy." And yet, a Jew is not permitted to seek martyrdom, but rather to seek life and sustain life. True, the Talmud says of those who died al Kiddush Hashem that their place in the world to come is beyond the reach of any created being.1 But then, the same Talmud also teaches that, "One hour of return and good deeds in this world is more beautiful than all the life of the world to come" The ban on Kol Isha is not universally accepted by all orthodox rabbis and is not a requirement that stems directly from the Torah and was only found in the Ashkenazi world. The ban is based on the Gemara (Berachot 24a) where a women's voice is considered to expose a woman’s nakedness. The Kol Isha prohibition runs counter to the prevailing Western culture, also what about indirect sound as on radio, television, CDs etc where the female is not actually present. In any case it does not come into the criteria for martyrdom.
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