Germany OKs subsidized submarine sale to Israel
Associated Press
Published: 30.11.11, 18:59
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26 Talkbacks for this article
1. This is for Israel to keep quiet about German sales to Iran,
Eytan Leibovitz ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (11.30.11)
Germany's profits from sales to Iran amount to much more than the total Germany's aid to Israel.
2. the military & politicians must't neglect the surface fleet
zionist forever   (11.30.11)
Thank Barak for getting us a fifth and sixth sub. Barak might not be the best defense minister this country has ever had he is one hell of a businessman. He took on Gabby Ashkenazi to buy two new ones rather than just a fourth which he wanted. He then took on Benny Gantz to get the funding to buy the sixth. The three SAAR 5 corvettes are the most modern ships Israel has and they are twenty years old and the rest of the surface fleet are at least a thirty years possibly older. The navy wants more ships but as usual because they just get the scraps that are left o the military budget after the land and air forces they just can't afford it. They talked about buying new ships and money was supposedly set aside the politicians and navy couldn't decide what they wanted and now as the military budget is going to be cut and politics has kept these plans on the back burner for years its unlikely they will get anything. The navy has potential to be a valuable strategic arm of the IDF it just needs to be a change of traditional thinking that the air and ground forces are the only useful branches of the IDF.
3. investment in europes second strike capability
Bernard Ross ,   st anns bay, jamaica   (11.30.11)
Perhaps Germany sees a future whereby europe and israel will need a common second strike capability.
4. Chris Rettenmoser is going to be having sweet dreams tonight
Noodles ,   Coney Island   (11.30.11)
5. Germany needs the money ;-) Lots of mouths to feed!
Michael Redbourn ,   Arad Israel   (11.30.11)
6. 3
zionist forever   (11.30.11)
The only European countries who have second strike capability ( England & France ) operate nuclear submarines and non of them are German. Israel is the only country that has second strike capability based on a German diesel submarine which is something the Germans themselves are not happy about. Germany doesn't like the idea of Israel having nukes at all and part of the contract for the fourth and fifth submarines which will come into operation in 2012 is that Israel doesn't mount nuclear weapons aboard it. Israel will no doubt break this clause anyway but I have a feeling if it was any other country but Israel if they even suspected it would carry nukes they would not be sold to that country.
7. @1
Gabriel ,   Leiden, Netherlands   (11.30.11)
Let's not get too cynical.
8. The subs are a bribe to shut up about Germany-Iran ties.
Vlad   (11.30.11)
I wouldn't be surprised if Bib casually hinted to Merkel that Germany to keep its end of the bargain for Israel to keep its. But if Bibi agreed to freeze construction in Jerusalem, I am going to SCREAM!
9. #7 realistic is a better choice of words
Eytan Leibovitz ,   Jerusalem, Israel   (11.30.11)
German is trying to have it both ways: helping out Israel to clear its conscience and gaining as much profit as possible with the Iranian regime, that has sworn to annihilate the state of Israel. If you want to describe me as 'cynical', please do. I call it 'realistic'. Prove me wrong.
10. ''If you bless Israel - you will be blessed !''
ben zion   (11.30.11)
''If you curse Israel, you will be cursed !'' The choice is yours .........the consequences too !
11. @Eytan Leibovitz
april.shower ,   germany   (11.30.11)
Yes, indeed, quite intensive trade relations between Iran and Germany are a huge problem. Slightly shabby also how long it has taken for example to stop the business of an Iranian Bank in Hamburg.
12. its egoistic
thommy ,   germany   (11.30.11)
we do it a lot because the submarine industry has huge problems merkel cant tell the people that the army is ordering more submarines because were cutting the military budget and we dont need them but she wants to support the industry so we pay 1/3 israel pays 2/3 and all is great for us and on top of that we can even support israel and maybe really pay for shutting up about iran ties
13. @9
Gabriel ,   Leiden, Netherlands   (11.30.11)
I don't have to. If I were to fall into this trap, I'd have to disprove your post, which is in itself based upon (rather far-fetched) presumptions, which you didn't bother to prove either to begin with. So let's start with you....what makes you a realist?
14. #6 zionist
solomon ,   bklyn   (12.01.11)
It is also the only country that has been threatened, literally, with annihilation by another country.
15. Germany-Iran trade
Fluffi ,   Germany   (12.01.11)
It should be noted that the volume of Germany's exports to Iran is more or less proportionate to Germany's economic size compared to the EU: Germany is 20% of the total EU economy and Germany exports 30% of the EU's goods to Iran. Okay, that's above average, but as we have an economy focused on export it's maybe not so surprising. People putting it that way that Germany is almost the one and only economic partner of Iran are exaggerating a bit.
16. (Sub)sidised sale?
Reid ,   Washington   (12.01.11)
(Sub)sidised sale? Don't you mean a gift from Germany. The IDF didn't buy anything. Free planes and satellites from the US too. All this equals more money to spend on Settlement building.
17. 15 ,...
split ,   US   (12.01.11)
And unlike Israelis the Iranians are paying your products ,...
18. 8
zionist forever   (12.01.11)
RUBBISH The navy wants as large a submarine fleet as possible so that can carry out as many operations as possible. Ideally hey wanted nine which they knew they would never get. As Chief of Staff Gabi Ashkenazi wanted just one more sub to take the numbers up to four but Barak took him on and won getting finding for five & sixth later if the price was right. Thank Barak's negotiating skills and Holocaust guilt syndrome in Germany that got the sub for that price not secret deals involving Iran.
19. Israel needs nuclear submarine, not diesel submarine.
Ray ,   U.S.A.   (12.01.11)
Why Israel should be incapable of building its own submarine?
20. Everyone stop criticizing Germany, recall Stuxnet and Duqu
Marco ,   Spain   (12.01.11)
Germany through Siemens company and others helped Israel insert the Stuxnet and Duqu computer viruses into Iran's networks. If Germany didn't have trade ties with Iran this would not have been possible. This is why Israel government has never made a big fuss about German trade with Iran.
21. @15 And as a german with no relation to Israel I think its
Ballthasar ,   EU   (12.01.11)
way too much. Im ashamed we still do trade with Iran. We must completely stop it and help to totaly isolate Iran, helping tp prevent Iran from developing a nuclear bomb could hitIsrael!
22. AIM: Military-industrial AUTARKY for defense plus export.
Jerry ,   The Netherlands   (12.01.11)
23. #17 consider it compensation for past grievances.
24. #17, #19
Henry from New York ,   USA   (12.01.11)
#17, probably because no one wants to give money to a country trying to hasten some sort of "End Times". You don't want to give them subs that they could use to disrupt shipping around the Persian gulf. #19, Israel is more than capable of building subs I would think. After they get them they proceed to heavily modify them. I wonder, having no knowledge of submarine design myself; would it be difficult to change a diesel sub to one that is nuclear-powered and have it still appear diesel-powered? It wouldn't be something the press would see obviously. Haven't heard about that before though so it's either an actual secret or it doesn't exist. Another thing is that these deals create work for the shipyards in Kiel. Both sides benefit quite nicely.
25. German Submarines
kikl ,   Germany   (12.01.11)
I don't think Israel wants Nuclear powered submarines. They are louder and can't dive in shallow waters. Therefore, they chose to get conventional Diesel-Electric subs. The new Dolphins are powered with fuel cells, which means they can dive for weeks without surfacing or snorkling. These are the best subs for Israels needs and probably the best subs in the world.
26. #25 kiki - Thank you
solomon ,   bklyn   (12.02.11)
Thank you for information that I have not seen anywhere else. It explains something that I, and probably others, did not know or understand.
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